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Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation - 2012-13 (Part XI)

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02-16-2013, 07:35 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
The debate on Burmi turns on why is a guy as obviously as talented as he is, produces so few points with that talent. I realize he is young, and has a defensive game beyond his years, but at some point he needs generate more scoring otherwise he will become our Kris Draper.
I love burmi but i'm starting to agree. I know he dominates possession numbers, looks great out there, and obviously does play and extremely good defensive game. All the numbers point to "bad luck" but when does it stop being luck and start being indicative of something.

I'm not going to say he needs to put up offence this year. But he does need to keep progressing. he has thus far, i just hope he can keep it up and improve his point totals again this year (though if the team never really does get it together i'll be less inclined to get down on him for a lack of production).

Generally i'm not "concerned" about him, or feeling like he needs to be traded. If he doesn't crack 40 points for another 2 years that's fine by me.

And that's one other thing to keep in mind, 40 points is GREAT third line production, well above the norm.

Generally, if he hasn't found his offensive groove by 24 then i'd think it's safe to say he's probably going to plateau as a defensive specialist, but he still has 2 years of grace from me before i get frustrated with him.

Either way, he was an 8th overall anyways, that's got a much ****tier success rate then people seem to think it does.

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02-16-2013, 07:49 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
I've been watching the ones where whenever the puck touches his stick it more often than not results in the other team gaining possession shortly afterward. Many here point to his skills but seemingly ignore that his puck management is horrible. The NHL is not a developmental league; he may not have much more time in a Jets uni if he doesn't start putting up some points. If his contributions are limited to defense then it is easy to see how the team might eventually move toward a defensive center that offers a considerable size upgrade.
Gump I am rewatching the game right now and I really don't see this at all? despite playing with Kane Burmi still had great puck Managment last night. He was decisive and accurate on almost every occasion. Last year I would have agreed with this wholeheartedly but I am going to have to agree to disagree with you on this point as far as the Pens game goes.


Last edited by ps241: 02-16-2013 at 08:09 PM.
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02-16-2013, 08:04 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Gump I am rewatching the game right now and I really don't see this at all? despite playing with Kane Burmi still had great puck Managment last night. He was desisive and accurate on almost every occasion. Last year I would have agreed with this wholeheartedly but I am going to have to agree to disagree with you on this point as far as the Pens game goes.
I don't see it either and I haven't for a while. He has been moved around a lot this year and his line almost always seems to control the puck well with him being a large part of it.

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02-16-2013, 08:10 PM
  #429
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so the Avs talked to the Rangers and it was RoR for Del Zotto + +

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02-16-2013, 08:20 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Gump I am rewatching the game right now and I really don't see this at all? despite playing with Kane Burmi still had great puck Managment last night. He was decisive and accurate on almost every occasion. Last year I would have agreed with this wholeheartedly but I am going to have to agree to disagree with you on this point as far as the Pens game goes.
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I don't see it either and I haven't for a while. He has been moved around a lot this year and his line almost always seems to control the puck well with him being a large part of it.


You's aren't the only ones who aren't seeing it, I myself am not either.

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02-16-2013, 09:01 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Zachy Goj View Post
You's aren't the only ones who aren't seeing it, I myself am not either.
I'd say he's one of our better forwards at puck management. That's the point I was originally making about him. He's starting to make skilled plays again, but not at the sacrifice of defensive responsibility.

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02-16-2013, 09:04 PM
  #432
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We disagree on the definition of good puck management then. Just because his line had a few good shifts does not mean that he manages the puck properly. He makes odd choices with the puck versus moving it when he should, and he has a propensity to hold onto it when he shouldn't, and also softly gives it away when he shouldn't.

Even Liebel (sp?) or one of the others on the pregame show on 1290 mentioned last night that some/many of the forwards are perhaps leery of playing with him because of the strange decisions he often makes with the puck. Whatever. No biggie to me either way. I'm aware that he is a big fan favorite in this city so I'm also aware I'm swimming against the tide here. Cool.

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02-16-2013, 09:07 PM
  #433
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I'd say he's one of our better forwards at puck management. That's the point I was originally making about him. He's starting to make skilled plays again, but not at the sacrifice of defensive responsibility.
Agree with you, Jet.

It would be great if we could see some more offense from him, but I hope/think it will come in time. I am a little bit concerned we haven't gotten more offense out of his this year, considering he's played quite well. He appears to be doing exactly what he did in the AHL this year, play really well but not produce. Odd, in a way.

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02-16-2013, 09:13 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Zachy Goj View Post
Agree with you, Jet.

It would be great if we could see some more offense from him, but I hope/think it will come in time. I am a little bit concerned we haven't gotten more offense out of his this year, considering he's played quite well. He appears to be doing exactly what he did in the AHL this year, play really well but not produce. Odd, in a way.
I'm hoping he just needs to get rolling, but the thing that worries me is his offense seemed to have dried up almost a year ago. I am hoping his defense first focus is the reason and he is being prodded by Noel to explore his offensive side again.

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02-16-2013, 09:22 PM
  #435
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Datsyuk lite means what? I know it is a throw around catch phrase to compare them as similar players but not at the same impact . Well lite as in how lite? That just is too easy a label to give and really means very little.

When you say the emergence of one of the NHL's premiere 2 way players , does that mean that is happening , can continue to happen without virtually any offense? Yes he can make very good defensive plays with his reads and skating but he also ,like last night , gives the puck away far too much to be regarded as premiere at this stage imo.

Then you say, isn't really putting up the points , really as in not at all , it is what it is . Dedicated to practice ,learning and getting better ... yes he has a love for the game and can be a "rink rat" however he has been told what he is not and has not been doing that this organization wants him to do and that hasn't been met with the best response nor has it dramatically changed. This is the same as when I said well before it went public that the organization was/had thought about time in the AHL for him . It was for a reason , and those reasons haven't changed positively very much .
Great post, says it all. I'd add that one of the defensive plays that he was lauded here for last night came immediately after he'd given the Pens the puck to begin with.

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02-16-2013, 10:05 PM
  #436
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I agree that Burmi tends to make odd decisions with the puck when in the offensive zone. I have seen several times this season that he tends to hold on the puck for touch too long and by the time he finally moves the puck that passing/shooting lane has closed. Everyone here wants to see Burmi's offensive game take off, atleast he is shooting the puck more often this season.

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02-16-2013, 10:20 PM
  #437
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Would you be open to trading Olli Jokinen, if the right deal came along?

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02-16-2013, 10:33 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Zachy Goj View Post
Agree with you, Jet.

It would be great if we could see some more offense from him, but I hope/think it will come in time. I am a little bit concerned we haven't gotten more offense out of his this year, considering he's played quite well. He appears to be doing exactly what he did in the AHL this year, play really well but not produce. Odd, in a way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
I'm hoping he just needs to get rolling, but the thing that worries me is his offense seemed to have dried up almost a year ago. I am hoping his defense first focus is the reason and he is being prodded by Noel to explore his offensive side again.
I am spilt down the middle on Burmi......I disagree that he is making odd choices with the puck I think that was last year......I however agree we need him to heat up point wise. he is doing allot of things right now but numbers don't lie if he is going to be getting top 6 minutes then we need him to produce at top 6 scoring rates. otherwise I have no problems playing him in a defensive roll on the 3rd line and PK.

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02-16-2013, 10:34 PM
  #439
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Would you be open to trading Olli Jokinen, if the right deal came along?
Absolutely. He might be able to get a first or a second rounder

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02-16-2013, 10:42 PM
  #440
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On Burmi, I see a lot of what others have seen. In the offensive end, I see a guy who can hold the puck until an opportunity presents itself, but he often misses the opportunity. I think he sees it, but doesn't act in time, so just keeps lugging the puck. He doesn't usually throw it away though - when he loses possession, it is usually in a benign way (into the corner for example).

I thought at the end of last year, I was starting to see him make that pass, and just starting to get an understanding of what Kane would be doing on the ice. It's taken too long to get them back together in my mind. I didn't think they were very good against Pittsburgh, however, but I hope they get a few more games. They'd probably be better off with Jokinen as their centre and Antro on the third line with Tangradi and Wellwood (or Mittens).

On trading Oli....I'd trade any of Antro, Jokinen, Hainsey, Wellwood, Stuart, and Mittens for picks if the offer was good enough. While I'd like to make the playoffs, it's not about making the playoffs, it's about building this team for long-term success. I wouldn't trade them just for the sake of trading them, and I wouldn't trade all of them, but if there was a good offer for one or two, I'd pull the trigger.

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02-16-2013, 10:46 PM
  #441
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Thinking about the lines a little more, I'd like to see Tangradi and Wright on Antropov's wings, making them a potential excellent cycle line.

Peluso, Thorbs and Slater would be the fourth line. I'd try Welly in the press box for a few games.

Ladd-Little-Wheeler
Kane-Burmi-Jokinen
Wright-Antro-Tangs
Peluso-Slater-Thorbs

Top 6 has plenty of speed and skill. Bottom six has plenty of size and grit. All lines have decent size.

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Old
02-17-2013, 08:28 AM
  #442
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Maybe thats Chevy's philosophy, sign free agents and then trade them for assets I actually wouldn't be opposed to this as he could be a good rental to a team looking to go for a run, the Canucks come to mind. If it got us a first rounder in return I wouldn't be upset. But this could only happen if we are well out of it.
As for Burmi, I see him breaking through anytime, just as I think Wheeler, Kane and Oli will in the next ten games. They will be huge and get us back in the hunt for eigth.

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02-18-2013, 04:42 PM
  #443
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would bishop for a second be a good move? is he a ufa this summer? we need someone to push pavs.

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02-18-2013, 05:48 PM
  #444
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I love the idea unless the Jets decide to get in the Luongo or Bernier sweepstakes.

Which other teams would be willing to be a "goalie for goalie" trade partner? I think Pavs needs a change of scenery and a fresh start.


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02-18-2013, 07:27 PM
  #445
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I love the idea unless the Jets decide to get in the Luongo or Bernier sweepstakes.

Which other teams would be willing to be a "goalie for goalie" trade partner? I think Pavs needs a change of scenery and a fresh start.


I think Pavs just needs time, what makes you think Bernier is better than Pavs. And why would Vancouver do a trade for a goalie, when they already have one(even if they trade one.

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02-18-2013, 07:37 PM
  #446
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As much as I dislike Luongo, I am starting to warm up to the idea of him as a Jet.

I will preface this by saying there is no way in hell that he comes here, but a deal like Pavelec + for Luongo might make sense. Why?

Vancouver gets a little insurance and motivation for Schneider in Pavelec.

They save a few mil in cap space each year.

They would get another roster player/ prospect/ draft pick.

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02-18-2013, 07:37 PM
  #447
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would bishop for a second be a good move? is he a ufa this summer? we need someone to push pavs.
Well he's an upgrade on what we have. There would be a decent opportunity for him to get some minutes too, if Pavy continues to struggle. I'd trade him for Chicago's 2nd - that pick looks like it would be #60.

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02-18-2013, 07:42 PM
  #448
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I wonder what we could get for Wheeler. Despite his play on the ice, heading into the off-season as a RFA his trade value may never be higher, especially if he continues to be an inconsistent talent. I just hope we don't give him a Kane/Enstrom contract.

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02-18-2013, 07:42 PM
  #449
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As much as I dislike Luongo, I am starting to warm up to the idea of him as a Jet.

I will preface this by saying there is no way in hell that he comes here, but a deal like Pavelec + for Luongo might make sense. Why?

Vancouver gets a little insurance and motivation for Schneider in Pavelec.

They save a few mil in cap space each year.

They would get another roster player/ prospect/ draft pick.
But then we have a monsterous contract for the next decade.

Don't mind the goalie trade-off, and Luongo does provide a solid (dare i say outstanding) performer for the next 3 to 4 yrs, most likely. Little worried after that, and the fact Jets would have a big cap hit for the next 6-7 yrs at lesser return.

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02-18-2013, 07:45 PM
  #450
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I don't think Vancouver wants to spend that much on goalies if they unload Luongo. Thought that was kind of the point of moving him in the first place. Fill a hole in the top 9 forwards and dramatically reduce the amount of cap space spend on goalies.

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