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Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation - 2012-13 (Part XI)

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02-20-2013, 02:33 AM
  #476
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
To be honest with you, I don't know if that would be THAT much better than what we got now. Enstrom and Byfuglien are considered top notch d-men in the league because they are top-notch guys... So, don't know if Trouba and Jones would be worlds and worlds away from Enstrom and Buff...
I'd rather keep one of Enstrom or Byfuglien with those guys... they did extend Enstrom so I think he does fit "their mold"...
Picking up Jones is a mistake. Our biggest need is at forward, specifically centre. Of course if he's BPA, then you pick him, but I don't think you pick him at 1 or 2.

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02-20-2013, 02:56 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
Picking up Jones is a mistake. Our biggest need is at forward, specifically centre. Of course if he's BPA, then you pick him, but I don't think you pick him at 1 or 2.
Different needs call for different picks. There's no concensus 1st overall, as half seem drawn towards MacKinnon and the rest to Jones. It opens up a bit more from 3rd down, but you can't go wrong with either of those two. If you need a defenseman, grab Jones. More juice in your top 6? MacKinnon. I think we'll likely pick at 7th again this year. I'd like to see us get a crack at Barkov or Monahan.

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02-20-2013, 07:49 AM
  #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
To be honest with you, I don't know if that would be THAT much better than what we got now. Enstrom and Byfuglien are considered top notch d-men in the league because they are top-notch guys... So, don't know if Trouba and Jones would be worlds and worlds away from Enstrom and Buff...
I'd rather keep one of Enstrom or Byfuglien with those guys... they did extend Enstrom so I think he does fit "their mold"...
First of all it is unlikey the Jets will get 1st pick unless they win the lottery. More than likely they will be picking in their regular slot of 7 - 10th. But if we picked first my guess is they would go with Mackinnon our area of biggest need. Picking Jones would necessitate a plan to improve our forward depth. My guess here is Buff would be moved and Enstrom kept. Enstrom, Bogo, Trouba and Jones would be an insane top 4 one day. Buff's size, playing style and historical conditioning concerns would point to a shorter career than Enstrom.

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02-20-2013, 08:00 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
First of all it is unlikey the Jets will get 1st pick unless they win the lottery. More than likely they will be picking in their regular slot of 7 - 10th. But if we picked first my guess is they would go with Mackinnon our area of biggest need. Picking Jones would necessitate a plan to improve our forward depth. My guess here is Buff would be moved and Enstrom kept. Enstrom, Bogo, Trouba and Jones would be an insane top 4 one day. Buff's size, playing style and historical conditioning concerns would point to a shorter career than Enstrom.
and yet, enstrom has (or is going to) miss more time in the last two seasons then Buff has because he hurt shoulders/collerbones

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02-20-2013, 09:23 AM
  #480
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and yet, enstrom has (or is going to) miss more time in the last two seasons then Buff has because he hurt shoulders/collerbones
Valid point. That's why given the option, IMO the Jets would go with a true #1 C in Mackinnion. I'm also hoping/trusting that Enstrom doesn't have a chronic injury, and if he does they are able to surgically repair it.

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02-20-2013, 09:31 AM
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
To be honest with you, I don't know if that would be THAT much better than what we got now. Enstrom and Byfuglien are considered top notch d-men in the league because they are top-notch guys... So, don't know if Trouba and Jones would be worlds and worlds away from Enstrom and Buff...
I'd rather keep one of Enstrom or Byfuglien with those guys... they did extend Enstrom so I think he does fit "their mold"...
For sure, to look that far into the future is going on some generous assumptions. That Bogo continues to develop, and that Jones and Trouba turn into the players that they are projected to be.

If they all did however, I would consider those three as possible better pieces than Enstrom and Buff. And that is saying a lot because as you said, Enstrom and Buff are already NHL all-stars.

As far as my comment on the "mold", what I meant is maybe playing style and the possible organization's direction. Sure the Jets extended Enstrom. But that was the move they had to make. Not saying they didn't want to keep him, but extending him last year when we had no other options for #1 LHD doesn't necessarily mean that he would be the first choice IF the team had options.

Not to assume that we know what Chevy and TNSE are thinking, but it looks from a small sample size of two drafts, a few waiver wire pickups, and two free agent signings that they want a big and strong team that is tough to play against.

Enstrom and Buff force Noel to play his pairs in specialized situations. I'm just speculating whether or not the team would rather have two 50 point specialized offensive players, and then two specialized defensive players, or would they rather have 3 (or 4 depending on the 4th), guys who may not put up the offensive numbers as Enstrom and Buff, but could play in all situations, AND play physical.

It's all very speculative as that would be 3 plus years away, we would need to draft Jones, AND have all 3 guys develop into top defensemen. But that was the rational for my thought anyway.

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02-20-2013, 02:42 PM
  #482
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mhmm to all

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02-20-2013, 03:02 PM
  #483
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It'll definitely be tough to pick up a first line player through UFA. It kind of sucks but all we can really do is make sure we do what we have to do to get a first line Center going forward.

Perry is definitely a bit of a pipe dream, but just for fun what do you guys think he'll command AAV wise? Over the 7 year max I'm sure he'll command. Or even a guy like Semin maybe?

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02-22-2013, 12:46 AM
  #484
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Nathan Horton presents a cap challenge for Boston , he's 27 , has great size , is versatile and consistently productive. He would be a really solid addition to the top six and likely will be available.

See if he can stay healthy , I would expect a Kane Scheifele Horton line , or hope for but Horton could also be at C and Scheifele , initially at 3C.

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02-22-2013, 12:50 AM
  #485
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
Nathan Horton presents a cap challenge for Boston , he's 27 , has great size , is versatile and consistently productive. He would be a really solid addition to the top six and likely will be available.

See if he can stay healthy , I would expect a Kane Scheifele Horton line , or hope for but Horton could also be at C and Scheifele , initially at 3C.
I like Horton, but I suspect he will get 1st line money to play #2C somewhere.

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02-22-2013, 02:23 PM
  #486
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So after arguing with some Flyers fans about Couturiers value (they think he's worth Bogosian lol) I noticed just how similar him and Burmistrov are.

Both 1992 born centers drafted 8th oa. One has a career high 27 points in 77 games the other 28 points in 76 games.

Both are playing third line center with heavy pk time and little power play time while being rocks on defence. I find it interesting how high flyers fans are on Couturier, in comparison to some people on here's opinion on Burmistrov.

Edit: just realized Burmi is a 91 not a 92.


Last edited by JetsHomer: 02-22-2013 at 02:53 PM.
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02-22-2013, 02:42 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
For sure, to look that far into the future is going on some generous assumptions. That Bogo continues to develop, and that Jones and Trouba turn into the players that they are projected to be.

If they all did however, I would consider those three as possible better pieces than Enstrom and Buff. And that is saying a lot because as you said, Enstrom and Buff are already NHL all-stars.

As far as my comment on the "mold", what I meant is maybe playing style and the possible organization's direction. Sure the Jets extended Enstrom. But that was the move they had to make. Not saying they didn't want to keep him, but extending him last year when we had no other options for #1 LHD doesn't necessarily mean that he would be the first choice IF the team had options.

Not to assume that we know what Chevy and TNSE are thinking, but it looks from a small sample size of two drafts, a few waiver wire pickups, and two free agent signings that they want a big and strong team that is tough to play against.

Enstrom and Buff force Noel to play his pairs in specialized situations. I'm just speculating whether or not the team would rather have two 50 point specialized offensive players, and then two specialized defensive players, or would they rather have 3 (or 4 depending on the 4th), guys who may not put up the offensive numbers as Enstrom and Buff, but could play in all situations, AND play physical.

It's all very speculative as that would be 3 plus years away, we would need to draft Jones, AND have all 3 guys develop into top defensemen. But that was the rational for my thought anyway.
Interesting points Huffer. If they did indeed move in that direction, depending on what the return would be, either young guys that could step in immediately or borderline Nhl ready guys and picks, I would question their motives. If it was the latter it would almost certainly set us back a year maybe more. And to be a complete organization I believe you have to show commitment both long term and short term and that you won't just sit back a suck for a few years. And I really believe you have to have a guy like Enstrom to win in this league. But if they show commitment to both they can keep using the draft to build how they want and over time you'll have the exact type of team you want.

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02-22-2013, 02:48 PM
  #488
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Guys guys guys....

I've solved our goaltending problem!

All we need to do is claim Rick DiPietro off of waivers!


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02-22-2013, 02:53 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Guys guys guys....

I've solved our goaltending problem!

All we need to do is claim Rick DiPietro off of waivers!

DiPeitro amazing still has 8 years left on his deal.

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02-22-2013, 02:53 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
So after arguing with some Flyers fans about Couturiers value (they think he's worth Bogosian lol) I noticed just how similar him and Burmistrov are.

Both 1992 born centers drafted 8th oa. One has a career high 27 points in 77 games the other 28 points in 76 games.

Both are playing third line center with heavy pk time and little power play time while being rocks on defence. I find it interesting how high flyers fans are on Couturier, in comparison to some people on here's opinion on Burmistrov.
I'd honestly thought about making a poll between the two players a few weeks back. Then I literally imagined how badly I'd get flamed with his great showing against PIT in the playoffs.

Haven't seen Couturier play much but I'm not aware of what makes him a better player than Alex.

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02-22-2013, 03:03 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
I'd honestly thought about making a poll between the two players a few weeks back. Then I literally imagined how badly I'd get flamed with his great luck against PIT in the playoffs.

Haven't seen Couturier play much but I'm not aware of what makes him a better player than Alex.
Fixed.

Much better with regular season sample sizes.

Malkin against Couturier
GF/20 1.487
GA/20 0.000
GF% 100.0%
CF% 80.0%

Malkin without Couturier
GF/20 0.999
GA/20 0.818
GF% 55.0%
CF% 55.3%

Looks more like Malkin had his way with Couturier over the season.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Couturier ends up way better than Burmistrov.

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02-22-2013, 03:11 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
I'd honestly thought about making a poll between the two players a few weeks back. Then I literally imagined how badly I'd get flamed with his great showing against PIT in the playoffs.

Haven't seen Couturier play much but I'm not aware of what makes him a better player than Alex.
couturier had considerably higher offensive production in junior and was a late faller, originally percieved as the near consensus #1 overall a year prior to his draft.

this would have a pretty high impact on the perception that he "should" end up a much better player then Burmi

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02-22-2013, 03:12 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Fixed.

Much better with regular season sample sizes.

Malkin against Couturier
GF/20 1.487
GA/20 0.000
GF% 100.0%
CF% 80.0%

Malkin without Couturier
GF/20 0.999
GA/20 0.818
GF% 55.0%
CF% 55.3%

Looks more like Malkin had his way with Couturier over the season.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Couturier ends up way better than Burmistrov.
malkins numbers vs burmi? Do they exist?

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02-22-2013, 03:13 PM
  #494
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I like Horton, but I suspect he will get 1st line money to play #2C somewhere.
If Getzlaf or Perry reach free agency , the money they would command would be signifigantly more than what Horton would imo . So a notch below that would be fair/acceptable and in line with his role and production.

Not sure if he would entertain signing here or not , but imo he would make sense and be a positive top 6 player for the Jets.

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02-22-2013, 03:28 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
I'd honestly thought about making a poll between the two players a few weeks back. Then I literally imagined how badly I'd get flamed with his great showing against PIT in the playoffs.

Haven't seen Couturier play much but I'm not aware of what makes him a better player than Alex.
Apart from better offence, similar defense, being bigger and a year younger Couturier doesn't offer a ton more than Burmi.

I am a big Burmi fan, but Couturier scored at a Kane like rate in his first season. I don't think they are really that close.

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02-22-2013, 03:32 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
malkins numbers vs burmi? Do they exist?
I just realized that I posted THIS seasons numbers for Malkin WOWY Couturier... eff
I'm too lazy to go redo all the work for last season... so I'll just show Corsi because that is the best longterm predictor and also better sample size.

2011-12 Malkin WOWY CF%

With Couturier: 59.8% (22.38 CF/20, 15.07 CA/20)
Without Couturier: 56.4% (22.03 CF/20, 17.01 CA/20)

With Burmistrov: 46.4% (19.07 CF/20, 22.00 CA/20)
Without Burmistrov: 56.7% (22.08 CF/20, 16.87 CA/20)


But as Truck said, different ages and experience. I wouldn't place money on Burmistrov being better in the long run, BUT you never know... weirder things happen.

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02-22-2013, 03:46 PM
  #497
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I really like Horton too, he's one of my favorites.

That said, what would his contract demands be? A bit of a raise over his current 6 yr/$24 mill deal? He's a perennial 25-30 goal/55+ pts guy, tough, and clutch (que the debate), but perhaps a bit of an injury risk.

But if you can get him for Andrew Ladd money, and he stays healthy, he's a great addition to the Jets top 6.

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02-22-2013, 04:02 PM
  #498
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I just realized that I posted THIS seasons numbers for Malkin WOWY Couturier... eff
I'm too lazy to go redo all the work for last season... so I'll just show Corsi because that is the best longterm predictor and also better sample size.

2011-12 Malkin WOWY CF%

With Couturier: 59.8% (22.38 CF/20, 15.07 CA/20)
Without Couturier: 56.4% (22.03 CF/20, 17.01 CA/20)

With Burmistrov: 46.4% (19.07 CF/20, 22.00 CA/20)
Without Burmistrov: 56.7% (22.08 CF/20, 16.87 CA/20)


But as Truck said, different ages and experience. I wouldn't place money on Burmistrov being better in the long run, BUT you never know... weirder things happen.
so does this mean Burmi's done a much better job "shutting dowN" geno then couturier, or am i reading this wrong?

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02-22-2013, 04:11 PM
  #499
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so does this mean Burmi's done a much better job "shutting dowN" geno then couturier, or am i reading this wrong?
Last season, that appears to be the case. But, keep in mind that Couturier was a rookie, while Burmistrov was a sophomore.

It's all measured by Corsi (shots, shot attempts that miss/blocked)...

So, Malkin's line created more offense per minute and prevented more of the other teams offense per minute with Couturier on the ice than they do on average without him on the ice. The opposite is true for when Burmistrov was on the ice.

That said, points per minute, Couturier in his rookie season far outscored Burmistrov per minute... although they are both scoring per minute the same right now.

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02-22-2013, 04:13 PM
  #500
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I really like Horton too, he's one of my favorites.

That said, what would his contract demands be? A bit of a raise over his current 6 yr/$24 mill deal? He's a perennial 25-30 goal/55+ pts guy, tough, and clutch (que the debate), but perhaps a bit of an injury risk.

But if you can get him for Andrew Ladd money, and he stays healthy, he's a great addition to the Jets top 6.
Food for thought,

Would Jets fans rather have Horton at 5-6MM a year via or ROR 4.5MM via trade and lose players picks?

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