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Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation - 2012-13 (Part XI)

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Old
03-07-2013, 10:46 AM
  #876
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
I never said Antropov is worthless, I just don't think for this franchise he is a fit anymore for what they have him here to do. I agree with what you say about his defensive play, I like that part of his game. In fact that is what I was hoping, and not getting, from Olli as well ( solid defensive play with some decent offense production thrown in ).

On this team, Antropov and Jokinen are here to be top six forwards based on what this team is paying them ( they are the 2nd and 3rd highest paid forwards on the team ) , and put up numbers accordingly. If they are to be 3rd line and 4th line players then they are both being over paid. On a already set playoff team then sure they can be solid 3rd liners to help bring a team a cup, but not on this team. We need more out of them, and if all they can be are 3rd liners or 4th liners, then pay them accordingly.
Sigh. You cannot change what a player is getting paid mid-contract. And he is UFA after this season. So what are you arguing?

Not to mention that the Jets are nowhere close to cap. Really, it's not your money coming out of the pocket, what do you care if he is overpaid as a 3rd liner this year. It simply does not matter right now.

Also note that 3rd and 4th liners, particularly high end ones like Antropov are paid 2.5-3.5 million. Not under a million.

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03-07-2013, 10:50 AM
  #877
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
I never said Antropov is worthless, I just don't think for this franchise he is a fit anymore for what they have him here to do. I agree with what you say about his defensive play, I like that part of his game. In fact that is what I was hoping, and not getting, from Olli as well ( solid defensive play with some decent offense production thrown in ).

On this team, Antropov and Jokinen are here to be top six forwards based on what this team is paying them ( they are the 2nd and 3rd highest paid forwards on the team ) , and put up numbers accordingly. If they are to be 3rd line and 4th line players then they are both being over paid. On a already set playoff team then sure they can be solid 3rd liners to help bring a team a cup, but not on this team. We need more out of them, and if all they can be are 3rd liners or 4th liners, then pay them accordingly.
Basing a role on a salary is a bad way to base roles. This jets team has never intended Antropov to be a top 6 forward. He is paid as one because when the team was still in Atlanta, he was one. Besides, him being overpaid is not a criticism of him, or the Jets. It's a criticism of Atlanta.

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03-07-2013, 11:53 AM
  #878
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Everyone has their own opinion, but to me Antropov is useless.

The only reason Antropov has any points is because he's playing with Kane. In a third line role, he would be sitting with maybe one or two points right now. I'd rather see a younger player that actually has upside get the playing time. Unless you're playing on the 4th line, defensive play isn't enough to earn a roster spot in today's NHL.

There's a few things I'm really looking forward to next year... No Antropov, No Wellwood, No Hainsey and seeing Scheiefele make the jump to the NHL (hoping to add to that list).

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03-07-2013, 11:54 AM
  #879
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Everyone loved Wellwood's production last season...
Does anyone know who had just slightly better goals and primary assists per a minute of icetime than Wellwood last season...??
Hint: An_ropov

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03-07-2013, 12:18 PM
  #880
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I don't understand the hate for Antropov. Are you guys watching the games? He is overpaid but we inherited that contract and we are under the cap so that is really a moot point. He is extremely effective at what he does. I think people who see a big guy who isn't a fast skater and doesn't throw massive hits and automatically think he sucks without looking at his other contributions. The guy protects the puck well, good positionally, wins board battles, goes to the net, mixes it up, apparently he has taken Burmi under his wing, usually makes very good decisions with the puck. He doesn't score a tonne but that isn't his role.

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03-07-2013, 12:22 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
I don't understand the hate for Antropov. Are you guys watching the games? He is overpaid but we inherited that contract and we are under the cap so that is really a moot point. He is extremely effective at what he does. I think people who see a big guy who isn't a fast skater and doesn't throw massive hits and automatically think he sucks without looking at his other contributions. The guy protects the puck well, good positionally, wins board battles, goes to the net, mixes it up, apparently he has taken Burmi under his wing, usually makes very good decisions with the puck. He doesn't score a tonne but that isn't his role.
To 75% of the people on these boards the value of a player is entirely based on the score sheet.

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03-07-2013, 12:28 PM
  #882
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Anyway, I should probably make a post that isn't semi-OT haha. Let's run down the list of UFAs who have cracked the roster, shall we?

Antropov - I was of the opinion that between Wellwood and Antropov, we should keep the better of the two, and deal the other. Antropov has been unarguably better. Sign him; 2yr, 2ish mil.

Mittens - No comment until I see him in a couple more games.

Wellwood - Probably the Jet who has proven the most disappointing. I think a change of scenery would be best for our team and him. Deal him if you can.

Hainsey - Valuable guy. I think we get more than our fair share for him, I'd love to see Hainsey + Wellwood for a top6 centre+. If not, resign him for 2yr... not really sure what he's worth, actually. I should look at that. Anyway, Postma, Redmond, and Trouba could benefit from a wee bit more time to develop, imo.

Clitsome - We'll need him if we deal Hainsey. If not, we might not. Still, he's a marginal type guy, makes little difference to me.

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03-07-2013, 12:29 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by Aries56 View Post
Everyone has their own opinion, but to me Antropov is useless.

The only reason Antropov has any points is because he's playing with Kane. In a third line role, he would be sitting with maybe one or two points right now. I'd rather see a younger player that actually has upside get the playing time. Unless you're playing on the 4th line, defensive play isn't enough to earn a roster spot in today's NHL.

There's a few things I'm really looking forward to next year... No Antropov, No Wellwood, No Hainsey and seeing Scheiefele make the jump to the NHL (hoping to add to that list).
realistically who do you foresee taken the positions ofa ntro and hainsey

it's all fine and such to have an opinion on them being detrimental but theres aplethora of evidence to the contrary.

realistically, id like to know exactly who some of us hope to replace hainsey with defencemen wise. If its the free agent route i sure hope you can name at least 4 players, because we need to have room to pursue and fail at signing some if we want to realistically believe there's an upgrade available.

Antropov, he could be upgraded on. I'm sort of either way on if he come back. Hainsey on the other hand, i'm losing faith that we actually ahve anyway to replace him. Keep in mind, he's 30...not 36. as far defencemen go he's probably got 4 good years left in him

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03-07-2013, 12:29 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
To 75% of the people on these boards the value of a player is entirely based on the score sheet.
Or how hard they "work" (check); GST for example.

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03-07-2013, 01:56 PM
  #885
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http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...d-be-nhl-bound

Hope we're taking a good look at some of those guys. I'd love to see DeKeyser here specifically.

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03-07-2013, 01:56 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
realistically who do you foresee taken the positions ofa ntro and hainsey

it's all fine and such to have an opinion on them being detrimental but theres aplethora of evidence to the contrary.

realistically, id like to know exactly who some of us hope to replace hainsey with defencemen wise. If its the free agent route i sure hope you can name at least 4 players, because we need to have room to pursue and fail at signing some if we want to realistically believe there's an upgrade available.

Antropov, he could be upgraded on. I'm sort of either way on if he come back. Hainsey on the other hand, i'm losing faith that we actually ahve anyway to replace him. Keep in mind, he's 30...not 36. as far defencemen go he's probably got 4 good years left in him
Jets are really lacking depth and that's why we have guys like Hainsey and Antro playing in roles they shouldn't be.

Next year Scheifele's junior eligibility is up, and if he shows well, I can see him sticking on the second line (better fit for him). All in all, I just don't see a spot for Antro. I'll admit Hainsey hasn't been bad, but he's not a top 4 defenseman.

I think you're gonna see Chevy make some acquisitions this off season. Antro, Hainsey, Wellwood, Mittens and Gagnon coming off the books will clear up 12 million in salary. Even after new contracts to wheeler, bogo, little, burmi we're gonna have some money to play with.

With the cap dropping, I think there's gonna be really good opportunity to pick up some good players for a good price.


EDIT: Btw, Chris Bourque but on waivers. Anyone think he's worth a look? I don't know much about him.

Quote:
Talent Analysis

Despite being only 5’8, Bourque is solidly built. and has a low center of gravity that makes him very difficult to push around on the ice. Although it’s a little too soon to start making Brian Gionta comparisons, Bourque does have some tremendous skills, and is already one of the finest skaters in the Washington organization. He is also a terrific puckhandler, has dynamic vision and can find the open man using clean, crisp passes.

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03-07-2013, 02:00 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by Aries56 View Post
Jets are really lacking depth and that's why we have guys like Hainsey and Antro playing in roles they shouldn't be.

Next year Scheifele's junior eligibility is up, and if he shows well, I can see him sticking on the second line (better fit for him). All in all, I just don't see a spot for Antro. I'll admit Hainsey hasn't been bad, but he's not a top 4 defenseman.

I think you're gonna see Chevy make some acquisitions this off season. Antro, Hainsey, Wellwood, Mittens and Gagnon coming off the books will clear up 12 million in salary. Even after new contracts to wheeler, bogo, little, burmi we're gonna have some money to play with.

With the cap dropping, I think there's gonna be really good opportunity to pick up some good players for a good price.
Statistically he compares quite favorably.

you tstill didn't answe rmy main question, who will you replace hiansey's minutes
with?


he may not be a top 4 defencemen ( i disagree, he's pretty damn close if not a #4) but he's much closer to it then Postma, Redmond, Clitsome, or anyone on the rock.

My point being, you may want a legitimate top 4 d man to replace him, but where do you see him coming from? Who is that top 4 dman?

Honestly, id like to upgrade little, burmistrov, antropov, and jokinen, but realistically, where are these upgrades going to come from? that's my point

you may not like hainsy as a top 4 dman, but looking at whats available, i'm thinking you'll like whatever we get as a replacement even less.


EDIT: http://capgeek.com/free-agents/?year...D&fa_type_id=2

Not a lot of upgrades on that list. At 31 hainseys is one of the youngest players on that list that could at best "challenge' for a top 4 spot. Anyone who'd be a "clear" upgrade over him is 3-4 years older. And anyone thats young and an Upgrade is named Ladislov Smid (who i'd love). But that mean the end result will be

A)resign hainsey
B) trade hainsey at the deadline for picks and try and sign smid
C) trade hainsey at the deadline for picks, and trade assets for a replacement.

your either hoping we manage to sign the 1 legitimate upgrade in free agency (don't like the odds there personally) or your going to be moving out an equal or greater amount of assets for an upgrade on Ron. Which begs the question, what was the point in moving Ron then? Unless your moving Ron + assets for an upgrade...which i would be in favor of


Last edited by Grind: 03-07-2013 at 02:17 PM.
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03-07-2013, 02:02 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Aries56 View Post
Jets are really lacking depth and that's why we have guys like Hainsey and Antro playing in roles they shouldn't be.

Next year Scheifele's junior eligibility is up, and if he shows well, I can see him sticking on the second line (better fit for him). All in all, I just don't see a spot for Antro. I'll admit Hainsey hasn't been bad, but he's not a top 4 defenseman.

I think you're gonna see Chevy make some acquisitions this off season. Antro, Hainsey, Wellwood, Mittens and Gagnon coming off the books will clear up 12 million in salary. Even after new contracts to wheeler, bogo, little, burmi we're gonna have some money to play with.

With the cap dropping, I think there's gonna be really good opportunity to pick up some good players for a good price.


EDIT: Btw, Chris Bourque but on waivers. Anyone think he's worth a look? I don't know much about him.
I think Antropov has a perfect spot lined up for him right on the third line RW where he should be. You're absolutely correct about the lack of depth issue though.

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03-07-2013, 02:02 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...d-be-nhl-bound

Hope we're taking a good look at some of those guys. I'd love to see DeKeyser here specifically.
Same I think DeKeyser would be perfect for us. If we resigned Hainsey to a decent contract thats a nice D corps provided DeKeyser is ready and Redmond is good to go next year.

Enstrom Byfuglien
Hainsey Bogosian
DeKeyser Redmond/Postma
Postma/Redmond

With Trouba on the way.

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03-07-2013, 02:07 PM
  #890
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Don't want to be a bad news bears...
But, don't count on Redmond, because we don't know if he will recover...

I hope though!

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03-07-2013, 02:52 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...d-be-nhl-bound

Hope we're taking a good look at some of those guys. I'd love to see DeKeyser here specifically.
Adding any of these would be a bonus if they could turn out to be contributors, but expecting big things from these coveted NCAA free agents would be wrong.

They are intriguing, yes, but the Coyotes landed the highly sought after Andy Miele and he has yet to make any sort of impact. That's just one example.

I do like DeKeyser and Hartzell though.

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03-07-2013, 02:57 PM
  #892
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Adding any of these would be a bonus if they could turn out to be contributors, but expecting big things from these coveted NCAA free agents would be wrong.

They are intriguing, yes, but the Coyotes landed the highly sought after Andy Miele and he has yet to make any sort of impact. That's just one example.

I do like DeKeyser and Hartzell though.
Sure, but considering the cupboards are fairly bare and both the Jets and IceCaps need players I hope like Hell that we're gunning for some of these guys.

Even if they max out as AHL talent we need to develop a strong farm system to help develop future players for the big club IMO.

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03-07-2013, 02:59 PM
  #893
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To 75% of the people on these boards the value of a player is entirely based on the score sheet.
I think the other 25% is based on man-crushes.

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03-07-2013, 03:08 PM
  #894
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Sure, but considering the cupboards are fairly bare and both the Jets and IceCaps need players I hope like Hell that we're gunning for some of these guys.

Even if they max out as AHL talent we need to develop a strong farm system to help develop future players for the big club IMO.
agreed. Noel did say during the lockout he was scouting an NCAA defensemen in michigian... maybe it was DeKeyser? who knows...but either way i'd love to get some free prospects in, even if they don't end up going anywhere

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03-07-2013, 03:15 PM
  #895
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I think we can all agree the jets need some serious upgrades at key positions to be a legit contender.

More production from our top 6 forwards, particularly at center, and a third line that has the ability to play against another team's top 6 and win that match-up.

Both Little and Burmi have not shown the ability to put up points, so I understand the frustration there, too. I'm also in the camp of let Burmi continue to develop, but at worst, he does slot into the top 9. That's not a bust. Its a role, in the NHL. A bust is more like Alex Bourret. Who? Exactly.

Kane, Ladd and Wheeler are legit top 6 guys, right now. That keeps this team in the mix, imo. More is needed from our C position and RW.

I also believe Antro, Wellwood and Olli need to be upgraded for this team to have success. For me, its not good enough that these guys are ok, or have a big body to protect the puck, or adds some skill, etc. Bottom line, imo, is they do not consistently win puck battles, bring intangibles or put up points to warrant sticking around after this year. If they do, we are not moving forward.

I'd say the same for Hainsey.


But the most frustrating part, for me, is if you plan to 'build thru the draft' you really can't miss on those picks. Every time a 1st rd pick misses (is not a regular contributing player 3+ yrs later), it sets you back that much further. Is it reasonable to think you'll hit every 1st rd pick? Likely not. But we have not yet seen Chevy make a move to alter or improve the core (maybe signing Olli, but that hasn't had the impact the Jets wanted) so drafting quality young players is all we seem to have.

Bet the fans in Philly, Boston, Detroit, Chicago and NYR are much less concerned about who their team picks.

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03-07-2013, 03:54 PM
  #896
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agreed. Noel did say during the lockout he was scouting an NCAA defensemen in michigian... maybe it was DeKeyser? who knows...but either way i'd love to get some free prospects in, even if they don't end up going anywhere
Nebraska at Omaha it was.

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03-07-2013, 04:00 PM
  #897
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I think this part of the TSN article could be applied to a guy like Hainsey:

"Times They Are A Changin?

In the same story, Kings general manager Dean Lombardi told LeBrun that the market might be slower this season due to some changing trends.

"What's happened the last five or six years is teams realizing that even if they're a seller, they realize it's not like the old days where you trade [a UFA to be] for a draft pick and easily replace them [in the offseason]," Kings GM Dean Lombardi said. "Even midrange players, many teams are now deciding to keep them and try to sign them versus giving them away for a second- or third-round pick. That's something that's changed in this business since I got in it; very different. Some teams are looking at that No. 4 or No. 5 defenseman and saying, 'I'm not replacing him this summer, I need to keep him and sign him.'"


Although in the same article Hainsey's name is brought up in regards to Detroit so whatever....

"Moves in Motown?

Ansar Khan of mlive.com states that while the Detroit Red Wings will wait until closer to the deadline before they make a move, but if the club does act, they will be targeting a top-four defenceman or a top-six forward.

Khan lists Jay Bouwmeester of the Flames, Ryan Whitney of Oilers, Winnipeg Jets veteran Ron Hainsey, Lubomir Visnovsky and Mark Streit of the New York Islanders, and Buffalo Sabres veteran Robyn Regehr as players that the club could target."


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=417574

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03-07-2013, 04:16 PM
  #898
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I think this part of the TSN article could be applied to a guy like Hainsey:

"Times They Are A Changin?

In the same story, Kings general manager Dean Lombardi told LeBrun that the market might be slower this season due to some changing trends.

"What's happened the last five or six years is teams realizing that even if they're a seller, they realize it's not like the old days where you trade [a UFA to be] for a draft pick and easily replace them [in the offseason]," Kings GM Dean Lombardi said. "Even midrange players, many teams are now deciding to keep them and try to sign them versus giving them away for a second- or third-round pick. That's something that's changed in this business since I got in it; very different. Some teams are looking at that No. 4 or No. 5 defenseman and saying, 'I'm not replacing him this summer, I need to keep him and sign him.'"


Although in the same article Hainsey's name is brought up in regards to Detroit so whatever....

"Moves in Motown?

Ansar Khan of mlive.com states that while the Detroit Red Wings will wait until closer to the deadline before they make a move, but if the club does act, they will be targeting a top-four defenceman or a top-six forward.

Khan lists Jay Bouwmeester of the Flames, Ryan Whitney of Oilers, Winnipeg Jets veteran Ron Hainsey, Lubomir Visnovsky and Mark Streit of the New York Islanders, and Buffalo Sabres veteran Robyn Regehr as players that the club could target."


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=417574
Just was about to post that , may not be as much of a move day as anticiapted.

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03-07-2013, 04:51 PM
  #899
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Just was about to post that , may not be as much of a move day as anticiapted.
Trade Deadline day never lives up to the TSN hype. Every year they sit there for 8 hours dissecting the trades of players like Hal Gill and Erik Christensen.

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03-07-2013, 04:57 PM
  #900
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Trade Deadline day never lives up to the TSN hype. Every year they sit there for 8 hours dissecting the trades of players like Hal Gill and Erik Christensen.
It's even funnier because you can tell they guys on the show know it and saw it coming, but their producers don't care.

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