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02-02-2013, 11:06 AM
  #476
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Atlanta was saying the same thing. Granted, the situations are actually not that comparable. ASG was hostile and the Thrashers had nowhere to play. Glendale has spent a ton of money to keep the Coyotes and built them an arena. They are still willing to work with the league, and there are still buyers out there kicking the tires. It's not over. Not yet.

That's what I mean by 'last possible minute.' When there are NO buyers showing interest, when Glendale tells the nhl to go suck egss...that will be the last possibly minute. Until that happens, Bettman will still consider the situation salvageable.

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02-02-2013, 01:28 PM
  #477
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Atlanta was saying the same thing. Granted, the situations are actually not that comparable. ASG was hostile and the Thrashers had nowhere to play. Glendale has spent a ton of money to keep the Coyotes and built them an arena. They are still willing to work with the league, and there are still buyers out there kicking the tires. It's not over. Not yet.

But don't think for a moment that the count won't sell us out over his pride. He absolutely will. Pride has no place in serious business, and he knows that, which is why he had to smile when moving Atlanta. Turned out to be a profitable move, but they still lost a major TV market and a southern city.

It's too early to call. What we need to know is (a.) How flexible is the new council? (b.) Taking that into account, how flexible is the NHL? They can't pretend like they are in negotiations guys. It has to be a matter of public record. We will know pretty quickly whether or not Gallacher or whomever is real, and if the NHL has any fight left in them.
This is why a shorter deal, say 5 years makes sense. The COG does not have to make along term commitment, a buyer can move the team also if it does not work out. In 5 years, both sides can decide if they want to extend or cut a different deal, they both get to look back at how it worked , good or bad, and both have an out.

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02-02-2013, 04:42 PM
  #478
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Okay, maybe I am reaching, and a bit tipsy, but nonetheless, I had a quick question / comment.

Regarding the team.

The big talk on the main board, as we all know, is that the Coyotes are done, move em, get them to Canada, ASAP etc.

Now, since the Coyotes obviously haven't made a profit, and now that the owner is still the NHL with no money coming from Glendale, why hasn't Gary Bettman and the NHL just pulled the plug?

If it all about waiting until the end of the season to get a relocation fee, they are going to burn through most of that for the rest of this year here with salaries, maintenance, travel, etc.

Then, (if they choose to) can offer up a franchise fee to Quebec / Seattle, whomever, and come out with more cash in pocket.

If there isn't a resolution, or a hint of a resolution, why would the NHL want to continue funding them for the rest of the season, knowing that they will end up losing money?

I don't know. Like I wrote above, maybe I am just reaching for some sort of hope that may not exist, but it seems more logical for the NHL to just pull the plug now, rather than wait.

Don't get me wrong. I DO NOT want this team to go at all. I am hoping for our boys to be here for many many years to come.

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02-02-2013, 05:39 PM
  #479
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Are you suggesting they fold a franchise mid-season?

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02-02-2013, 05:52 PM
  #480
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Are you suggesting they fold a franchise mid-season?
"Who owns da Coyotes?"

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02-02-2013, 06:24 PM
  #481
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Are you suggesting they fold a franchise mid-season?
Not. Happening.

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02-02-2013, 07:00 PM
  #482
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Are you suggesting they fold a franchise mid-season?
Yep.

From a business stand point, it makes sense. There really isn't a mid season this year, as the season is only 8 games in.

I really don't think it will happen. But again, if you think about without emotions and just think business, they would lose less, by shutting them down now.

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02-02-2013, 07:16 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Underdawg View Post
Yep.

From a business stand point, it makes sense. There really isn't a mid season this year, as the season is only 8 games in.

I really don't think it will happen. But again, if you think about without emotions and just think business, they would lose less, by shutting them down now.
If they scratch an entire franchise mid-season, you do realize they would have to reschedule every game for every team, right?

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02-02-2013, 07:22 PM
  #484
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they would lose less, by shutting them down now.
You severely underestimate the effort that goes into running a hockey team. This isn't a Dennys that needs to be shuttered. There's also the union to contend with. They don't really stand to lose all that much with the half season. Easily recouped by selling the team. They'd arguably lose more due to the disruption folding a team would cause.

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02-02-2013, 07:29 PM
  #485
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If they scratch an entire franchise mid-season, you do realize they would have to reschedule every game for every team, right?
Not every team, as all games are inter conference this year. Besides, its the NHL. They impose another asterisk, to this asterisk filled season, by announcing that the Western Conference teams final standings will be determined with one less game played for each Western team.

Not that tough. Any team(s) that may have to make up a game, play each other.

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You severely underestimate the effort that goes into running a hockey team. This isn't a Dennys that needs to be shuttered. There's also the union to contend with. They don't really stand to lose all that much with the half season. Easily recouped by selling the team. They'd arguably lose more due to the disruption folding a team would cause.

Severely? Not really. Besides, who is running this team? The NHL.

I get that they could recoup some of the money, but like I have stated, by shutting it down now, they recoup more of that money.

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02-02-2013, 07:32 PM
  #486
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but like I have stated, by shutting it down now, they recoup more of that money.
Say it as many times as you want. Doesn't mean it's true.

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02-02-2013, 07:35 PM
  #487
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Say it as many times as you want. Doesn't mean it's true.
Well, not to split hairs, but I kinda have 17 unprofitable years to use as an example.

I seriously doubt the Coyotes will profit this year.

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02-02-2013, 07:37 PM
  #488
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I seriously doubt the Coyotes will profit this year.
No ****. Suddenly folding the team doesn't make those expenses go away.

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02-02-2013, 07:39 PM
  #489
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Folding the team still mean that the salaries need to be paid, that's what, 50-55m?

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02-02-2013, 07:40 PM
  #490
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No ****. Suddenly folding the team doesn't make those expenses go away.

Not all of them, but it cuts some those expenses down, which completes the circle back to my original thought.

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02-02-2013, 07:42 PM
  #491
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Not all of them, but it cuts some those expenses down, which completes the circle back to my original thought.

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02-02-2013, 07:50 PM
  #492
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I get your point now.

You feel it's better to lose more money, than less money.

That's cool.

Remember, we are on the same side here.

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02-02-2013, 07:52 PM
  #493
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You feel it's better to lose more money, than less money.
You are somehow under the impression that a sports franchise can be easily folded mid season, and that it somehow saves money. Incorrect.

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02-02-2013, 07:58 PM
  #494
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Because they wouldn't have to refund tickets or pay penalty fees to contracts they signed or anything. They could just shut the team down today, and not have to spend a single penny more. Right.


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02-02-2013, 08:04 PM
  #495
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Enough of that, i have a semi bold belief i am going to share.

I know most of you believe that this whole Jamison process is a "smoke screen" and for a minute there, i did too. However after thinking about it for a while, i am going to veture to say that is completely false, and a little too conspiracy driven. As a Coyotes fan, we've been through so many loopholes NOT to believe in conspiracies, but take your anger and disbelief goggles off and reallly, really think about this. Do you honestly believe the NHL is cruel enough to straight up lie to the players and their respective families, just to save face? I mean we are talking about life changing decisions here. Their kids are in schools they are comfortable with, as well as property and family relations. Do we really believe the NHL is giving them false hope by setting up decoy investors and owners? If so, i have a few questions for you.

Why does Jamison agree to this? If anything, this supposed "setup smokescreen" puts a black mark on his reputation, by claiming he had investors that he actually didn't. Think he would do that intentionally all while knowing he was never going to purchase the team?

Why does Jamison sacrifice a year of his life for a fake transaction?

If the NHL has truly had an elaborate scheme to make it look like they are trying, but knowingly aware that they are going to relocate the team, why not execute the final stage of the plan two years ago? After Ice Edge, after Hulsizer? We're talking 4 years of substantial revenue loss, and we're going to sit here and say that this is all part of their plan to save face for themselves? We're going to jump to the conclusion that they don't want us here, so they are going to run a circus transaction scheme for 4-5 years to cover that?

Listen, even billionaires have trouble acquiring items of interest from time to time, especially with something like a professional sports team. Say you're inquiring about purchasing Apple. You know what you're getting, as well as your investors do. With an NHL team with a track record like the Coyotes, you see potential, rather than a steady record of sales amd marketing. With a professional sports team, sales could alter due to so many microscopic issues. A player injury, or departure, like a number one goaltender could result in utter performance failure, causing fans to be fed up, and stop purchasing. This is a hard field to gather interest in, especially at the price.

You all can believe what you want, but all i see is another failed attempt to sell a hockey team to an eager buyer, who talked like he could follow through to keep the seller interested. That kind of thing happens way more often than the obstacles we are all suggesting. This is the NHL people, not the Illuminati.

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02-02-2013, 08:07 PM
  #496
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Why does Jamison agree to this? If anything, this supposed "setup smokescreen" puts a black mark on his reputation, by claiming he had investors that he actually didn't. Think he would do that intentionally all while knowing he was never going to purchase the team?

Why does Jamison sacrifice a year of his life for a fake transaction?
Jamison was dug up by the NHL to attempt this. He has been a longtime ally of the NHL front office, so anything goes. That being said, I think his bid was real. Poorly structured and a gambit, but real. What we are questioning is the conveniently sudden appearance of a new bidder and the implications. If this bidder (likely Gallacher) is indeed the same investor that sunk Jamison's deal, there is more going on behind the scenes than we (or Jamison for that matter) are able to see.

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02-02-2013, 08:15 PM
  #497
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Jamison was dug up by the NHL to attempt this. He has been a longtime ally of the NHL front office, so anything goes. That being said, I think his bid was real. Poorly structured and a gambit, but real. What we are questioning is the conveniently sudden appearance of a new bidder and the implications. If this bidder (likely Gallacher) is indeed the same investor that sunk Jamison's deal, there is more going on behind the scenes than we (or Jamison for that matter) are able to see.
That's just the thing, so much speculation and controversy for this concern to be genuine. There is too much at stake for the NHL, Jamison to pull a stunt like this. We're talking people's lives.

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02-02-2013, 08:16 PM
  #498
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We're talking people's lives.
Moving around constantly is part of the lifestyle. Moving an entire team isn't exactly happy times for the players, but it's not the end of the world.

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02-02-2013, 08:19 PM
  #499
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If the Gallacher situation is true, and that's a big if, that sounds more to me like Gallacher pulled out of Jamison's deal because he wanted a shot at the big seat himself. That isn't set up by the NHL, that's buyer competition. That's a key component to Jamison's deal that dropped out for his own reasons, causing the deal to fall through.

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Moving around constantly is part of the lifestyle. Moving an entire team isn't exactly happy times for the players, but it's not the end of the world.
But knowingly lying to them is alright? You honestly think they would sit there and say, "yeah, we're going to try and keep the team here, we're confident we'll stay." just so the organization can actually get people to agree moving their families here?

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02-02-2013, 08:22 PM
  #500
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That isn't set up by the NHL.
No one is really in a position to claim that. It is entirely possible that the NHL had misgivings about being tied to a 20 year lease, while taking $300 million from a city in the process. There's ample reason to believe that they would prefer a short term lease with an out. That's something a deep pocketed owner like Gallacher can do.

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