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Old
02-02-2013, 08:25 PM
  #501
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No one is really in a position to claim that. It is entirely possible that the NHL had misgivings about being tied to a 20 year lease, while taking $300 million from a city in the process. There's ample reason to believe that they would prefer a short term lease with an out. That's something a deep pocketed owner like Gallacher can do.
They would have no reason to lie then, if you want a 5 year out clause, so be it. No reason to be whoring out a 20 year lease.

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02-02-2013, 08:29 PM
  #502
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The minds of some of these relocationist are crazy. A few days ago the owner of the Sharks claimed he was losing money and some of these relocationist on a different site said that the Sharks need to be relocated. This completely ignores the fact that the Sharks are one of the best performing non-traditional hockey market teams in the league and sell out every game.

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02-02-2013, 08:30 PM
  #503
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They would have no reason to lie then, if you want a 5 year out clause, so be it. No reason to be whoring out a 20 year lease.
Gallacher emerged late in the process. Having him out there, with money to spend, is probably why GJ was confident the deal could get done. But when you are a billionaire, you want to waive it around a bit. It makes sense for him to demand a controlling share, especially if he is investing quite a bit of money. So I don't think they "lied" so much as they squabbled, ultimately sinking the deal. There's nothing to suggest there's nefarious behavior here. But there's ample opportunity for backdoor deals (chatter from the GJ camp seems to hint at that) and new terms. Weiers struck me as someone who was unusually calm and cool after having GJ's bid fall apart.

It could very well be a fake buyer, but we will know early on. The council has to approve any lease and potential buyer, and that's a matter of public record. They can't hide negotiations like they did with ASG.

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02-02-2013, 10:25 PM
  #504
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If the NHL has truly had an elaborate scheme to make it look like they are trying, but knowingly aware that they are going to relocate the team, why not execute the final stage of the plan two years ago? After Ice Edge, after Hulsizer? .
I think the wildly unbelievable success in Winnipeg has got to have changed some perspectives.

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02-02-2013, 10:55 PM
  #505
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Do we know the reasons why Gallacher didn't take ownership of the Stars or the Devils? Did he actually complete bids on them, and the league simply selected the other bidders?

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02-03-2013, 12:36 AM
  #506
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I'm not sure what happened with the Devils but from what I read about his involvement with the Stars was that he was outbid.

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02-03-2013, 10:12 AM
  #507
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Here is why I'm genuinely worried: (we have learned) it takes a min 3 months for a new buyer to surface, 3 months to negotiate the lease and 2 months to close the deal. That takes us to September before we have an owner. Mike Smith will have walked by then and the continuing revolving door of charlatan ownership groups just plays out like the circus it is.

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02-03-2013, 10:19 AM
  #508
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Interesting quote from Ray Whitney last night regarding*#Coyotes*ownership: "Personally, I think as long as Gary Bettman is still the commissioner of the National Hockey League, there's going to be a team here. I think there's probably been some arrangements with the other owners that there's got to be a certain price tag that comes with this team after footing the bill for so long. But this team isn't going anywhere."
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02-03-2013, 10:22 AM
  #509
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Hate to break it to Ray, but no one is going to buy the team if they keep upping the price. At least no one in Phoenix.

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02-03-2013, 10:29 AM
  #510
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Hate to break it to Ray, but no one is going to buy the team if they keep upping the price. At least no one in Phoenix.
He has a point though, this team isn't going anywhere.

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02-03-2013, 10:29 AM
  #511
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Yep.

From a business stand point, it makes sense. There really isn't a mid season this year, as the season is only 8 games in.

I really don't think it will happen. But again, if you think about without emotions and just think business, they would lose less, by shutting them down now.
It makes about as much sense as Starbucks burning crosses in front of their stores to attract more Christians.

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02-03-2013, 10:31 AM
  #512
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He has a point though, this team isn't going anywhere.
Says who? I might have believed it a few years ago, when there were no acceptable suitors. But there's now 3 markets emerging that can take this team, if they really want it. I don't think Ray has any sort of unique insight anymore than we do.

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02-03-2013, 10:59 AM
  #513
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Well, not to split hairs, but I kinda have 17 unprofitable years to use as an example.

I seriously doubt the Coyotes will profit this year.
My God. Profit and revenue are not the same thing. This team must generate revenue to minimize losses. If you remove 100% of revenue, while still being on the hook for probably 80% of cost, well...I think you can probably do the math from here.

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02-03-2013, 11:06 AM
  #514
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He has a point though, this team isn't going anywhere.
It will not be two weeks after their last game this year that the NHL announces that they are moving.

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02-04-2013, 12:05 AM
  #515
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I'm tempted to just pop in here from time to time to shout ******** at the latest rumors. I'd love if it someone would emerge and buy the team but I've given up hope. Fool me once: ok. Fool me twice: my fault. Fool me three times: Time to question my intelligence. Four times...not going to happen.

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02-04-2013, 08:34 AM
  #516
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If Gallacher himself comes right out and says that he going to try to buy the team, I guess we will have something to talk about. Until that happens, it is just another red herring.

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02-04-2013, 08:37 AM
  #517
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If Gallacher himself comes right out and says that he going to try to buy the team, I guess we will have something to talk about. Until that happens, it is just another red herring.
Yep.

Executive session tomorrow. Coyotes are on the agenda. Hopefully we hear something this week.

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02-04-2013, 09:34 AM
  #518
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Yep.

Executive session tomorrow. Coyotes are on the agenda. Hopefully we hear something this week.
Even then, he has got to say exactly the right things if anyone is going to even entertain the idea that he's not a complete charlatan. He's going to have to explain why we haven't heard from him sooner. That he was pursuing other teams and that the league and the city preferred exclusive negotiations, and Jamison was basically blocking his bid just by being present in that time wasting fiasco. He's going to have to say that he's not dependent on 308mil and that he's actually much more comfortible with a five year lease that will provide more flexibility for all parties involved when the picture of NHL hockey's landscape in Glendale is much more clear. He's going to have to identify that he is a much different kind of tire kicker in that his bid will not be comprised predominantly on other people's money (private or public) and that gaining financing is no issue because he's already got the cash to make the purchase. That he's already talked to Gary Bettman and he's all set with the league, he just needs to work out an AMF with the COG that both sides are happy with.

Speaking of the AMF, how were the first five years of the Jamison deal set up? What did the payments look like in the first five?

Was it 11, 14, 15, 15, 16? Total of 71 over five. Average of 14.2?

Would CoG go for 10, 13, 14, 14, 15? Total of 66 over five. Average of 13.2?

They could then say they reduced the total payment due from 308m to 66m while lowering all payments in the first five years. All payments under the average annual on the last deal. It at least sounds like they stuck to their guns a little, no?


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02-04-2013, 10:25 AM
  #519
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In terms of the Stars, Gallacher and his investors put together a bid for $225M. The Stars were ultimately sold to Tom Gaglardi for $240M. But what this tells us is Gallacher has real money.

Gallacher also made a run at the Devils, but I don't think his bid ever got off the ground, as Jeff Vanderbeek retained ownership of the club.

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02-04-2013, 11:33 AM
  #520
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Even then, he has got to say exactly the right things if anyone is going to even entertain the idea that he's not a complete charlatan. He's going to have to explain why we haven't heard from him sooner. That he was pursuing other teams and that the league and the city preferred exclusive negotiations, and Jamison was basically blocking his bid just by being present in that time wasting fiasco. He's going to have to say that he's not dependent on 308mil and that he's actually much more comfortible with a five year lease that will provide more flexibility for all parties involved when the picture of NHL hockey's landscape in Glendale is much more clear. He's going to have to identify that he is a much different kind of tire kicker in that his bid will not be comprised predominantly on other people's money (private or public) and that gaining financing is no issue because he's already got the cash to make the purchase. That he's already talked to Gary Bettman and he's all set with the league, he just needs to work out an AMF with the COG that both sides are happy with.

Speaking of the AMF, how were the first five years of the Jamison deal set up? What did the payments look like in the first five?


Was it 11, 14, 15, 15, 16? Total of 71 over five. Average of 14.2?

Would CoG go for 10, 13, 14, 14, 15? Total of 66 over five. Average of 13.2?

They could then say they reduced the total payment due from 308m to 66m while lowering all payments in the first five years. All payments under the average annual on the last deal. It at least sounds like they stuck to their guns a little, no?
This post is very logical and well thought out. What is missing is the drama and BS.

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Old
02-04-2013, 11:39 AM
  #521
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the problem is that new Mayor is going to want to exert muscle and put his rubber stamp on this deal, he will want to distinguish himself from his predecessor, see look Glendale your knight in armor swooped in an got you a better deal. Thats why there was zero chance of him extending the terms of the old deal.

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02-04-2013, 11:44 AM
  #522
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Even then, he has got to say exactly the right things if anyone is going to even entertain the idea that he's not a complete charlatan. He's going to have to explain why we haven't heard from him sooner. That he was pursuing other teams and that the league and the city preferred exclusive negotiations, and Jamison was basically blocking his bid just by being present in that time wasting fiasco. He's going to have to say that he's not dependent on 308mil and that he's actually much more comfortible with a five year lease that will provide more flexibility for all parties involved when the picture of NHL hockey's landscape in Glendale is much more clear. He's going to have to identify that he is a much different kind of tire kicker in that his bid will not be comprised predominantly on other people's money (private or public) and that gaining financing is no issue because he's already got the cash to make the purchase. That he's already talked to Gary Bettman and he's all set with the league, he just needs to work out an AMF with the COG that both sides are happy with.

Speaking of the AMF, how were the first five years of the Jamison deal set up? What did the payments look like in the first five?

Was it 11, 14, 15, 15, 16? Total of 71 over five. Average of 14.2?

Would CoG go for 10, 13, 14, 14, 15? Total of 66 over five. Average of 13.2?

They could then say they reduced the total payment due from 308m to 66m while lowering all payments in the first five years. All payments under the average annual on the last deal. It at least sounds like they stuck to their guns a little, no?
I agree with your comments and I could see this type of investor asking for more rights, and I could see JIG unwilling to give them. If he can right the check, he should cut his own deal. I still think the COG has no leverage and will likely have to have a very similar subsidy for even 5 years, like the deal with JIG. The COG set the bar and have no leverage to lower it. The chirping from current politicians is likely just that.

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02-04-2013, 12:04 PM
  #523
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For what it's worth, I wanted to see how many of the league's 30 arenas are municipally owned and operated.

Including Jobing.com, there are 13 arenas that are municipally owned. But Jobing.com is the only arena where the municipality is also the operator.

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02-04-2013, 12:14 PM
  #524
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But Jobing.com is the only arena where the municipality is also the operator.
Whomever holds the lease is technically the 'operator' in this case. Wikipedia is not your friend AEG is supposedly doing the managing right now... not sure I buy that.

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02-04-2013, 12:36 PM
  #525
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Canadian marketing executive Anthony LeBlanc, who previously headed another group interested in buying the Coyotes, said a new deal with the city would be critical for any potential buyer.

“Look, the reality is that any potential owner, myself included, will require a deal with the city that is very, very similar to the one that was on the table over the last several months,” he told The Arizona Republic.

LeBlanc declined to say whether he considered himself a potential owner now and he declined further comment. He previously headed Ice Edge Holdings, which tried but didn’t succeed in purchasing the team in 2010.

Weiers said he’d like to see the team stay at the city-owned Jobing.com Arena, and that he’s talked with two interested groups. He declined to identify either of the new suitors who initially contacted him hours before Jamison’s deadline passed at 11:59 p.m. Thursday.
Please, not those clowns again

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