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Leafs shake up

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:03 AM
  #1
LeafsRockForBabcock
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Leafs shake up

Alright so I have a few trades here for shaking up the leafs for next season.

To leafs fans, we need to shake things up and improve our defense, and we won't get anything quality unless we trade our quality pieces.

To other fans: I tried to make the value even and see it from the other teams prospective.

First trade:

Nashville: Kadri + 2014 first (possibly top 10 pick)

Toronto: Josi

Second trade:

Vancouver: Lupul + (Not sure what the plus could be, maybe a prospect?)

Toronto: Tanev (He would be who I want, if not, Edler)

Third Trade


Philly: Gardiner +

Toronto: Couts


Re-sign Kuli

JVR - Bozak - Kessel

Leivo - Couts - Kuli

Phaneuf - Josi
Tanev (Edler) - Reilly
Gleason - Finn



Thoughts?

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:06 AM
  #2
seanlinden
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So... change for the sake of change and no 2nd line????

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:06 AM
  #3
Go Wings
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Fire Nonis, Fire Caryle and dump Phaneuf. There's your shakeup.

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:13 AM
  #4
pezcore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Wings View Post
Fire Nonis, Fire Caryle and dump Phaneuf. There's your shakeup.
Well said but for argument`s sake...

Trade no.1: Yes from Nashville..

Trade no.2: Canucks fans are high on Tanev and since Lupul is not having his greatest year, unless the + is one high end prospect like Rielly, I dont think that would be enough.

trade no.3: yeah no. Couts has develop into such a great 2 way foward and is so valuable to the team that Gardiner would just cut it.

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:18 AM
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CapInSask
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If I'm a Nashville fan I wouldn't do the first deal, but I'm not so maybe they disagree.
The second I'm not sure about, I don't really know Tanev's value that well.
The third would be a big no from Philly.

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:19 AM
  #6
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Vancouver isn't interested in Lupul. We wouldn't trade Tanev unless it is for a player of similar age with similar upside.

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:20 AM
  #7
LeafsRockForBabcock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
So... change for the sake of change and no 2nd line????
No 2nd line? As apposed to having an elite one now?

Leafs go from a terrible defense, to one of the best in the league. Phaneuf and Josi would be a dream, and Josi is only what, 23? He is already a top pairing D. I forgot to include Gunner in my D, but with Josi, Phaneuf, Gunner, and Tanev, we actually have two top pair D, two top 4 D, and with Gleason and Reilly, Finn, we have a competant D core with talent. We keep hearing build from the net out, well lets put some talent in our D.

As for the 2nd line, Couts is a huge, 2way Center who is young and becoming very good. Between him and Kuli, it gives the leafs a 2way 2nd line that can score and shut down, and has size. Added one of our NHL ready prospects gives us size, 2way play, and secondary scoring. They may not produce as much as now, but their added defense will make the difference.

This gives the leafs a top line that competes with the best in the NHl, a top D pairing that can shut down any top line, and produce, two way depth down the line up and talented D depth. With Bernier in goal, this makes the leafs closer to the Bruins (who we should be building to be like) than Pitts (who we are closer too now).

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:21 AM
  #8
KJS14
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I think Holmgren would convert Couts to a defenseman before he traded him for Gardiner..

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:24 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Methots Exactly View Post
If I'm a Nashville fan I wouldn't do the first deal, but I'm not so maybe they disagree.
The second I'm not sure about, I don't really know Tanev's value that well.
The third would be a big no from Philly.
I'm not so sure Nashville doesn't do it. They are stacked with D, and with rumors of managment and ownership pressing to trade D for forwards, this is right up their alley.

Nashville gets a top 6 C, who is still growing and has potential to be a top line C. He gives them offense, and he can play wing. They also get a possible top 10 pick to help them along with their top 10 pick.

They don't trade Weber or Jones, who are their best player and most potential player. Along with their other talented D, Josi is expendable for offense.

To summerize: Expendable Dman who is good for equally young Center with similar Potential, and top 10 pick.

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:30 AM
  #10
seanlinden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Reim View Post
No 2nd line? As apposed to having an elite one now?

Leafs go from a terrible defense, to one of the best in the league. Phaneuf and Josi would be a dream, and Josi is only what, 23? He is already a top pairing D. I forgot to include Gunner in my D, but with Josi, Phaneuf, Gunner, and Tanev, we actually have two top pair D, two top 4 D, and with Gleason and Reilly, Finn, we have a competant D core with talent. We keep hearing build from the net out, well lets put some talent in our D.

As for the 2nd line, Couts is a huge, 2way Center who is young and becoming very good. Between him and Kuli, it gives the leafs a 2way 2nd line that can score and shut down, and has size. Added one of our NHL ready prospects gives us size, 2way play, and secondary scoring. They may not produce as much as now, but their added defense will make the difference.

This gives the leafs a top line that competes with the best in the NHl, a top D pairing that can shut down any top line, and produce, two way depth down the line up and talented D depth. With Bernier in goal, this makes the leafs closer to the Bruins (who we should be building to be like) than Pitts (who we are closer too now).
Where did you get the idea that we have an elite 2nd line right now??? Your proposed lineup is totally devoid of a 2nd line. Period. I don't think any team can be successful playing their top 2 lines 30 minutes a game each. If you're going to come up with a "plan" for an overhaul, at least complete the damn thing.

That defence is also far from the best in the league. It actually looks pretty similar to what we have right now, with the much needed change in approach from Franson to Tanev, Gardiner out (meaning that we now have to foolishly rely on Morgan Rielly to be a top 4 guy every day), and some mediocre prospect playing on our 3rd pair. Phaneuf-Josi aren't likely to provide any upgrade over Phaneuf-Gunnarsson. I think the Franson to Tanev swap makes our 2nd pair better, but the Gardiner to Rielly swap makes it worse, so you're basically back at square one there. On the 3rd pair, you're definitely worse off going from Rielly to Finn.

So, not only have you managed to make a whole bunch of changes without actually accomplishing anything, but you've converted whatever value was present in Kadri, Lupul and our 2014 1st to now having Gunnarsson & Franson to try and replace those assets up front.

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:32 AM
  #11
vanwest
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Your proposals only take into account the Leafs needs and not the other teams.

Vancouver is looking to get younger so trading Tanev for Lupul is not meeting their needs.

There is no way Nashville trades Josi for that package. Listening to Trotz talk about Josi he's about as untouchable as they come. That would be like Toronto trading Rielly.

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:32 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Reim View Post
I'm not so sure Nashville doesn't do it. They are stacked with D, and with rumors of managment and ownership pressing to trade D for forwards, this is right up their alley.

Nashville gets a top 6 C, who is still growing and has potential to be a top line C. He gives them offense, and he can play wing. They also get a possible top 10 pick to help them along with their top 10 pick.

They don't trade Weber or Jones, who are their best player and most potential player. Along with their other talented D, Josi is expendable for offense.

To summerize: Expendable Dman who is good for equally young Center with similar Potential, and top 10 pick.
I agree with what you're saying here. Like I said, if it was my choice I wouldn't do it. Maybe it's because I think NSH could get more for Josi, maybe it has something to do with me being biased against Kadri, I'm not sure. I don't want to get in an argument over the value of Kadri but I just personally wouldn't take that deal.

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:34 AM
  #13
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The Canucks are trying to get younger so if we were to trade Tanev it would be for a player with a similar age and value

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:37 AM
  #14
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I actually wouldn't mind Lupul, but his struggling season means I would want more coming back.

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:50 AM
  #15
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The two big fixes on the team are Clarkson and Phaneuf. Clarkson is virtually preventing this team from signing a top UFA to improve the team. Phaneuf although a decent defenseman is not a #1 but is being paid like a top #1. He is overpaid. If you could pay Phaneuf a couple million less and get rid of Clarkson then all you really need to do is tweak the defense a little. But unfortunatly your hands are tied in those two contracts for now.
IF some team out there will take Phaneuf and that contract, then you're fine. You just need to replace his calibre of a player which really isn't that hard to do.

Everything else is fine. Except the organization as a whole.

Sit it out and wait on the rebuild. Young team with potential.

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:51 AM
  #16
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oh those Gardiner for Couturier proposal again.

Before we even speak about value, Gardiner can't crack Flyers Defense, we have this guy Erik Gustaffson who should be playing instead of some guys like Grossmann but he keep getting benched because he's young and the other are veteran and he is as good as Gardiner if not better.

and then you have Morin,Hagg,Gostisbehere,Alt,maybe a college FA all who will sooner or later crack the Flyers line up.

that's just like taking Morgan Rielly and giving you another decent 2nd,3rd line winger.

so the conclusion is: where do you fit a guy like Gardiner who doesn't have #1 Dman potential in the Flyers lineup, The press box.

And now we go to the value, do you think #4,5Dman can fetch you a 21-year old elite shut down Center,Best PKers in NHL who plays against the toughest competition for +19min and can put something between 40-55pts, with no real PP time.

-Do you think Gardiner+ can get you a 29-year old Kesler or 25-year old J.Staal? the answer is no, then why the **** do you think he'll get you a 21-year old Couturier.

so it would be great to stop that because it's annoying since we know it will never happen and we've been saying it's an awful idea for 2 years and you're still bringing it.

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:52 AM
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You have your hot and cold days. Welcome to the rest of the league.

Thrilled with Talbot. Plays like a mini Lundqvist. 2-3 wks back saw a blurb with similar stats.
After next season, because of a quirk in CBA and Cam being 27, I think, he is elligible for UFA.
Rangers can have King rest a bit and throw the Prince a dozen or more games, min, for 2 years on an extender.
But what he would really want, barring long term injury to Hank, we can't give --- starter's spot.

IMO, Rangers should move him for top $ even if it creates holes that have to be patched afterward. Rangers need increase in total talent to compete with the best.

Given all that in an equation, I would suggest:
Stepan, Girardi, Talbot, rights to Stralman, next two NYR 2nds

for

JVR and Leaf 2014 or 2015 1st

You lose a seriously talented sniper, but
you are adding
productive 1C
productive 1st pair RD
productive G, with long term upside if you sign him long term
productive RD, might be a little bit over what we want to pay
2 higher but comparatively lesser value picks

Or do you want to continue with the D and G that got ya here?

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Old
03-29-2014, 11:57 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Where did you get the idea that we have an elite 2nd line right now??? Your proposed lineup is totally devoid of a 2nd line. Period. I don't think any team can be successful playing their top 2 lines 30 minutes a game each. If you're going to come up with a "plan" for an overhaul, at least complete the damn thing.

That defence is also far from the best in the league. It actually looks pretty similar to what we have right now, with the much needed change in approach from Franson to Tanev, Gardiner out (meaning that we now have to foolishly rely on Morgan Rielly to be a top 4 guy every day), and some mediocre prospect playing on our 3rd pair. Phaneuf-Josi aren't likely to provide any upgrade over Phaneuf-Gunnarsson. I think the Franson to Tanev swap makes our 2nd pair better, but the Gardiner to Rielly swap makes it worse, so you're basically back at square one there. On the 3rd pair, you're definitely worse off going from Rielly to Finn.

So, not only have you managed to make a whole bunch of changes without actually accomplishing anything, but you've converted whatever value was present in Kadri, Lupul and our 2014 1st to now having Gunnarsson & Franson to try and replace those assets up front.
I wasn't saying they are elite now. It was said in the snese that the other poster said it wouldn't be a good line, and I said oh like how they are good now? In a sarcastic tone, because they have been terrible this year. Bad defense, low production. Leafs should sacrifice offense for grinding two way play.

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03-29-2014, 11:59 AM
  #19
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
You have your hot and cold days. Welcome to the rest of the league.

Thrilled with Talbot. Plays like a mini Lundqvist. 2-3 wks back saw a blurb with similar stats.
After next season, because of a quirk in CBA and Cam being 27, I think, he is elligible for UFA.
Rangers can have King rest a bit and throw the Prince a dozen or more games, min, for 2 years on an extender.
But what he would really want, barring long term injury to Hank, we can't give --- starter's spot.

IMO, Rangers should move him for top $ even if it creates holes that have to be patched afterward. Rangers need increase in total talent to compete with the best.

Given all that in an equation, I would suggest:
Stepan, Girardi, Talbot, rights to Stralman, next two NYR 2nds

for

JVR and Leaf 2014 or 2015 1st

You lose a seriously talented sniper, but
you are adding
productive 1C
productive 1st pair RD
productive G, with long term upside if you sign him long term
productive RD, might be a little bit over what we want to pay
2 higher but comparatively lesser value picks

Or do you want to continue with the D and G that got ya here?
On the Leaf side...
- JvR's untouchable
- $5.5m long term for Girardi is a tough tough sell. I wouldn't value him at any more than a 3rd or 4th round pick.
- Stepan doesn't have a spot here.
- No interest in Stralman, and Talbot is pretty irrelevant.

Plus, Glen Sather isn't Paul Holmgren. He's not going to trade Girardi just after signing him.

There's a lot of names here which make it look like a good deal for Toronto, but what it essentially amounts to is JVR + a 1st for Stepan, Girardi with a big contract, and a couple of 2nds. That's not one the Leafs touch.

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Old
03-29-2014, 12:01 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
JvR's untouchable... and the Rangers aren't going to trade Girardi just after signing him.
Only the Flyers trade players right after signing them to long deals

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Old
03-29-2014, 12:04 PM
  #21
seanlinden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Reim View Post
I wasn't saying they are elite now. It was said in the snese that the other poster said it wouldn't be a good line, and I said oh like how they are good now? In a sarcastic tone, because they have been terrible this year. Bad defense, low production. Leafs should sacrifice offense for grinding two way play.
What wouldn't be a good line? You don't even have one posted there...

I see a 1st line -- JvR-Bozak-Kessel
I see a blank space
I see a 3rd line -- Leivo-Couts-Kulemin

I'd say that having no players out there, or guys who are dead-tired would be a really bad line.

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Old
03-29-2014, 12:05 PM
  #22
Wennberg
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Proposal: Leafs shake up

Fire Nonis

Hire Optimus Reim

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Old
03-29-2014, 12:30 PM
  #23
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Big no from Philly. Not moving Couts, especially for Gardiner unless that + was Rielly too.

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Old
03-29-2014, 12:32 PM
  #24
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A better idea would be just doing a trade for Edler or Tanev, then try to sign Cammalleri and resign Bolland, among others.

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Cammalleri - Kadri - Raymond
Kulemin - Bolland - Clarkson
Ashton - Holland - Orr

Edler - Phaneuf (or Phaneuf - Tanev)
Gardiner - Rielly
Ranger - Gleason

Lupul and Franson head our way.

Now I hope you don't sign Cammalleri, as I'd love him on the Canucks. But the above roster makes more sense to me than what you posted, OP.

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Old
03-29-2014, 12:35 PM
  #25
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A question for Leafs and Philly fans, would something around Reily and Couts work?

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