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Phaneuf - Kostka: 25-30 minute men

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Old
01-28-2013, 08:09 PM
  #1
p.l.f.
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Phaneuf - Kostka: 25-30 minute men

Randy likes to play his top pair 25-30 min
But this isn't Pronger - Niedermayer

Gardiner is young
Gunnarsson is ok....
the rest are maybe, maybe nots - pretty 1 dimensional

if Kostka isn't the answer as one of his horses (we should know by 10 games) then finding a new horse to go with Phaneuf might very well be on Nonis' agenda.

Easier said that done

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01-28-2013, 08:16 PM
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calcal798
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If Kotska can play solidly for 19-21 mins with Dion (playing 23-25), and a pairing of Gard-Gunnar could work out playing 21-23 each we could have a decent top four.

But if Kotska-Phaneuf are on for 32 mins a game we could be in trouble.

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01-28-2013, 08:17 PM
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Jerkini
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I have no problem with Phaneuf getting 30 minutes a game. I don't blame the loss on him. I think the forwards left him to dry on several occasions. The only time he looked completely gassed was during the empty netter where he jumped for the puck instead of playing the angles. And the game was already lost at that point.

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01-28-2013, 08:20 PM
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p.l.f.
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he's grinding the flesh out of Kostka LOL
i feel sorry for him somehow

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01-28-2013, 08:39 PM
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Chara is averaging 25 minutes per night. There's no way Phaneuf should be playing 30 minutes per night in a compacted season. It needs to be a team effort. Fraser and Komisarek have been playing really well. You can't expect Phaneuf-Kostka to stop one of the best lines in the league when they've played 20 minutes after two periods and it's the 3rd game in 4 nights. Carlyle mismanaged the ice time, he's already admitted it.

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01-28-2013, 08:44 PM
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Too much, there needs to be better distribution between ice time for defencemen.

Kostka and Phaneuf having that much ice time is not good in a compacted season.

Ice time for Komi, and Gunnarsson should get a bit more.

and this really gets on me, the coach NEEDS to play Franson.

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01-28-2013, 08:50 PM
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It's ridiculous.

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01-28-2013, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by contour View Post
Too much, there needs to be better distribution between ice time for defencemen.

Kostka and Phaneuf having that much ice time is not good in a compacted season.

Ice time for Komi, and Gunnarsson should get a bit more.

and this really gets on me, the coach NEEDS to play Franson.
Disagree. Franson has been the worst defenseman. He's always out of position and he's not physical enough to make up for it. So far he's been outplayed by Phaneuf, Gunner, Kostka, Komisarek, Fraser, and Holzer. I don't think he'll be a Leaf much longer. He must not have a great attitude or work ethic since he was always the first scratch for Wilson and Carlyle right off the bat.

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01-28-2013, 09:10 PM
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I don't see why we need to play Phaneuf (and obviously Kostka) that much, when we have a pretty deep core of defensemen as it stands. Keep it under 23 minutes, pair Phaneuf with Gunnarsson as in the past, Kostka with someone speedier like Gardiner or Liles, and then Liles or Gardiner with Komisarek/Franson/Holzer. Fraser looks too slow to get regular consideration.

Less ice time keeps the dmen fresher if they're playing too much, and more engaged in the game if they're playing more and not cold/rusty, which could help in terms of the mental fatigue that seems to be killing the team.

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01-28-2013, 09:18 PM
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vs NYR
phaneuf 32:38
kostka 31:33
gunnarsson 21:34
liles 13:06
komisarek 14:30
fraser 6:39

vs NYI
phaneuf 25:50
kostka 23:54
gardiner 21:28

vs PIT
phaneuf 25:47
kostka 23:16

vs BUF
phaneuf 28:43
kostka 27:02

vs MTL
phaneuf 26:43
kostka 22:59
liles 21:50

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01-28-2013, 09:39 PM
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seems like the leafs board has tempered expecations on Gardiner...any reason as to why? I thought the kid looked sick when he was playing last year, and expected him to put up some big numbers...

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01-28-2013, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbeard7737 View Post
seems like the leafs board has tempered expecations on Gardiner...any reason as to why? I thought the kid looked sick when he was playing last year, and expected him to put up some big numbers...
he's coming off a concussion so theyre be careful at first

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01-28-2013, 11:47 PM
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Carlyle forgot that human beings do not make the best decisions when tired or under duress. Perhaps he can fix this and roll back the minutes to more realistic numbers.

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01-29-2013, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by redbeard7737 View Post
seems like the leafs board has tempered expecations on Gardiner...any reason as to why? I thought the kid looked sick when he was playing last year, and expected him to put up some big numbers...
Shortened training camp + no pre-season + concussion.

He was hardly involved in training camp, and often did a lot of working out on his own or with the skating coach, while the rest of the group were being taught the Carlyle system.

There was no pre-season to assess his health and in-game performance.

They rushed him back, but weren't to know that until they played him and realized that he was behind the pace quite a bit and just didn't look like himself.

So they've sent him down to the Marlies to play at a level that he excels at, so that he can find his confidence, timing, and form again.

The most recent call back up to the Leafs (Sunday) was purely for practice reasons - it's All Star weekend in the AHL, and therefore the Marlies weren't practicing. Calling him up let him practice with the Leafs over the weekend and today. My guess is if he doesn't play tomorrow, he get's sent back down.

So I wouldn't say they are tempering expectations.

More-so just being very careful with him and his concussion - which they should be.

Chances are with a full training camp + some pre-season games, they could have become aware of his concussion struggles a little earlier than game 4 of the season.

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01-29-2013, 12:39 AM
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I don't mind Kostka I feel everyone blames the losses on him. They did play too many minutes but RC realized and I think they'll be fine.

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01-29-2013, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
I don't mind Kostka I feel everyone blames the losses on him. They did play too many minutes but RC realized and I think they'll be fine.
the thing i like about kostka is that he doesn't look out of place

we have to remember he is just a rookie


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01-29-2013, 02:21 AM
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Randy knows how to tank

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01-29-2013, 02:28 AM
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Phaneuf (-8) and Kostka (-7) are also the NHL's worst +/- players at present.

I wonder if there is any correlation between minutes played and the high goals against ratio and thus the sub < .500 team performance end result?.

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01-29-2013, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Phaneuf (-8) and Kostka (-7) are also the NHL's worst +/- players at present.

I wonder if there is any correlation between minutes played and the high goals against ratio and thus the sub < .500 team performance end result?.
With Burke out of the way, I am actually a little curious who you'll crusade against next.

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01-29-2013, 05:56 AM
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kotska is a minor leaguer ....he didnt magically become a no 1 pairing defenseman ...5-6-7 on a playoff team at best

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01-29-2013, 08:08 AM
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Mess
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Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
With Burke out of the way, I am actually a little curious who you'll crusade against next.
I'm actually curious myself on how Nonis plans on fixing this mess he inherited.

However, as I was attempting to point out earlier that the current D pairing leads the entire NHL in negative +/-, usually a good indicator that things are not working as is..

That said if Carlyle plans on riding Phaneuf and journeyman AHLer Kostka as his top pairing, playing them big minutes against the other teams best players and results continue as is, then the ends might justify the means if the goal is Nathan Mackinnon I suppose.

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01-29-2013, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
I'm actually curious myself on how Nonis plans on fixing this mess he inherited.

However, as I was attempting to point out earlier that the current D pairing leads the entire NHL in negative +/-, usually a good indicator that things are not working as is..

That said if Carlyle plans on riding Phaneuf and journeyman AHLer Kostka as his top pairing, playing them big minutes against the other teams best players and results continue as is, then the ends might justify the means if the goal is Nathan Mackinnon I suppose.
Still, when the bulk of that "lead" was a result of two games, how much should I really be relying on it as an indicator? Let alone a "good indicator".

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01-29-2013, 08:42 AM
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i felt that phaneuf-gunnarson played decent last year. is there a reason why they arent being played together this year?

gunnarson is probably a second pairing defenseman on most contending teams but what does that make koska? how they give a 27 year old rookie defenseman top pairing minutes blows my mind.

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01-29-2013, 11:25 AM
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I think it says sad things about the quality of our defense that Carlyle thinks that a tired pairing of Phaneuf and Kostka is safer than the fresh legs of any of our other guys.

Its my opinion that Gunnarson and Kostka are about equally capable partners for Phaneuf, and that he's with Kostka for the lefty righty combo.

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01-29-2013, 11:30 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Phaneuf (-8) and Kostka (-7) are also the NHL's worst +/- players at present.

I wonder if there is any correlation between minutes played and the high goals against ratio and thus the sub < .500 team performance end result?.
There's clearly "correlation", but I think the question you're asking is, is there "causation"

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