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Old
01-29-2013, 10:35 AM
  #51
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I am actually feeling the opposite at the moment..

For me the Burke/Wilson era as a lifelong diehard Leaf fan was very trying to endure.. Now that change has come I have new hope and new found excitement in supporting my team again.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:35 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
Sure, I'm just saying I think we overpaid for Grab and Lupul, especially when we even an optimistic viewpoint doesn't necessarily consider them top forwards.

I think it would also have the potential to score 50, so kind of a tough one.
I do agree with you. 5M+ for Grabo and Lupul IS too much considering they are getting paid Getlaf and Perry money. I think it's our mindset though. I believe the NHL moved towards that were a 0.6-0.8 PPG gets 5M.

In the past, when capspace was lower, they were paid much less. I think once the legacy contracts start expiring, the prices will start to stabilize. GMs were paying big bucks for players just because that the was only way players were willing to sign. When the offers from all teams across the league start their downward trend with regards to the new cap, we'll see proper 6M for PPG players. Not the ridiculous 7-8M we see for players like Lecavalier.

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01-29-2013, 10:38 AM
  #53
Gobias Industries
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Sorry I gloomed earlier, I think JVR and Kadri are great pieces and I think JVR's contract will be amazing soon.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:40 AM
  #54
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Another thing to keep in mind:

It's been 5 games in a season with no exhibition games! Another 5 games and we see same or worse result then we should start panicking but it is time to wait and see. Not only no exhibition games but a complete reversal in team strategy too.

I mean if this team could have lasted a whole game they'd be 4-1 as they've acquired two good leads only to squander them. It is not as if they got steamrolled in these losses. They just let their fott off the gas which happens with young teams. They need to learn it's 110% start to finish.

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01-29-2013, 10:44 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn3rgetic View Post
I do agree with you. 5M+ for Grabo and Lupul IS too much considering they are getting paid Getlaf and Perry money. I think it's our mindset though. I believe the NHL moved towards that were a 0.6-0.8 PPG gets 5M.

In the past, when capspace was lower, they were paid much less. I think once the legacy contracts start expiring, the prices will start to stabilize. GMs were paying big bucks for players just because that the was only way players were willing to sign. When the offers from all teams across the league start their downward trend with regards to the new cap, we'll see proper 6M for PPG players. Not the ridiculous 7-8M we see for players like Lecavalier.
there's no point of comparing contracts from a few years ago to now and guys like Perry and Getzlaf were RFA's compared to Lupul and Grabs UFA status.

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01-29-2013, 10:46 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn3rgetic View Post
I know I know, "we aren't going to make the playoffs", blah blah blah.

LISTEN UP.

Would like to remind you guys of the following things.
  1. The team has ONE forward aged 30 on the roster. His name is Colton Orr.
  2. Our CAPTAIN is ONLY 27. He's just entering the prime of his career.
  3. Our top forwards are aged 22, 23, 25. Kadri-Kessel-JVR. This is our potential first line going forward!
  4. Our defense has lots of upside. Gardiner, Rielly, and Finn.
  5. We have HUGE capspace going forward into 2013-2014.

Please guys, our team has been molded and remolded over the past few years. We have our new coach and a GM that's willing to put the team before his own convictions. I just upset over ugly losses just much as you guys but I know in my heart that this ship is righting itself.


It's a deep draft with lots of capspace. I'm excited about the off-season almost as much as the hockey we are finally able to watch again!

GO LEAFS GO.
1) Who cares about age if none of them become good.
2) He's not much of a captain. I think his prime was his first couple years in Calgary.
3) Kadri Kessel JVR as our top line for the next couple of years.... Going to get pushed around easily. JVR is not a Corey Perry type power forward, he's just big, that's it.
4) Upside, yes. If they will achieve it? Who knows. What's the last superstars we've developed...Kaberle?
5) Don't you have to resign that "young captain" and "top line going forward" in Kadri and Kessel? Hell Lupul and Grabo alone are 11 mil.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:47 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by BayStBullies View Post
The losing mentality from the fans; is being expressed back to the players. It's a cycle of losers.

If the fans would actually cheer for the team; maybe they would try a little harder. The ACC is dull and boring; with everyone sitting on their hands. We claim to be "the best fans" the "largest fanbase"; yet none of that has any direct positive influence on the team itself.

Every fanbase tries to kick us around; because half of this fanbase just takes it with a smile. Stand up for your team and back them up. It might make a world of difference. If you can't at least do that; maybe you truly are not a "fan" any more. You're just clinging on from habits.
Wow these guys are being paid Millions. Millions! to play a game that we would all cut our arms off to play at that level. If they can't motivate themselves - and/or can't perform without a bunch of cheering fans in background then there's something obviously wrong.

Blame the Fans - Blame the Media - Blame the Schedule - Blame the GM from 10 years ago - Blame the Coach. When do you blame the actual Player?

Eventually everyone including you need to be held accountable for their actions.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:49 AM
  #58
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It's weird - I adore our beloved Maple Leafs but as many posters have stated:

1. I expect the team to blow a lead and loose

2. I generally expect the team to loose, when I see "Rangers" or "Penguins" ... like many posters have posted - I personally have that "We're getting blown out" voice in the back of my head.

3. I don't really like the players on this version of the Maple Leafs..and I can't really pin point it. When I was young - the Leafs were bad, but I loved Vaive, Clark, Thomas, Courtnall, even Wregget. Thank god you only needed 52 points in the Norris Division to make the playoffs.

4. I've lost my passion for games - I notice myself turning the game off with 10 minutes or less in the 3rd period now if we're loosing. I don't watch any post game interviews.

5. I honestly feel really bad for Randy Carlyle. Hired by his old boss -- who got canned. Taking flack for our pathetic players. Randy - the ex Leaf, Ontario boy, tries his damn hardest to get this team prepared, you can see he hates loosing, yet it's his fault when we suck so bad: no goalies, no defense, horrible captain, one dimensional kessel for goals.....

6. If we don't start playing mostly all the young guys if this season is bad in a month -- i'll be even more depressed.

7. I have no faith in our scouts.

8. Did I mention I'm sick of horrible goaltending? Raycrap, Toskalol, Reimer, Scrivens et al.

9. The Burke era was the worst era I've ever seen in Leafs history -- worse than Ballard for multiple reasons..and I ****in hated Ballard.

10. Does anyone else find themselves talking about the "glory days" of the gilmour era when they talk about the Leafs?

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:52 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Raym11 View Post
ive been watching every leafs game in the background as of late. Same old same old. This team is pathetic behind the reigns of Kessel and Phaneuf. We're never going to be a good team led by them.


Just going through the motions as a fan now. Continue watching, even though i hate the players, just pay less attention.


If the leafs were a prospect, we'd be a projected 3rd liner tweener. That is where this team has come, what a fall from grace from the early 2000s.

It's sad too because in the early 2000's half our lineup was garbage, part of it players on the decline, and then a few in their prime. The team had character though, an actual identity, and better leadership and motivation. Kessel and Phaneuf are the leaders of this team (Kessel by name and merit) and they are support players, might even be 3rd rate players.


I'm not sure you're even a good team if Kessel is your 2nd best player. Phaneuf your 3rd. Think we're going to need atleast 2 top tier players to get by with those 2 in the lineup



There is a large group of people who trash Quinn all the time for how he ran the team. This team fell off a cliff without Quinn. Atleast he had a plan.
Fully agreed and we know it. Burke brought in the wrong people off the bat. This is Toronto Burkie - we KNOW hockey, and we KNOW everything and anything about "star" players. These guys don't cut it. They are supporting cast type players with too many flaws and just an overall bad attitude.

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01-29-2013, 10:55 AM
  #60
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I have some hope in our system in general, because Kessel, JVR, Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner, 1st 2013 represent a pretty good talent base...

But, aside from that, there is something fundamentally screwed about this group the way they seem to be so mentally soft and choke so much as a collective. I never really bought the excuse of the Blue and White disease back in Maurice's time since the team was never that skilled, but I think there's something wrong psychologically with this group that needs to be corrected. They're so fragile. And youth is no excuse because it's been happening for three years on a consistent basis.

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01-29-2013, 10:56 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
If you're no longer enjoying being a Leaf fan, don't be a Leaf fan. Simple as that. If your life is somehow not going to be complete without cheering for a silly pro hockey team, seek professional help. Personally, I suspect that many on here just like complaining and arguing on message boards.

I don't know if you'd call my approach apathy or not. I think of it as acceptance that what the Leafs do is out of my control. Just like I have no control over what the weather will be like tomorrow, I have no contol over how the Leafs team is built or how they perform. I also have a natural reluctance to telling others how to do their jobs, so that makes me unusual amongst sports fans, who seem to thrive on it. I just don't have that sports fan arrogance that causes them to think that because they watch some games, they know how to run a team.
LOL. People are frustrated because they care about the team. No one is going to stop being a fan and it doesn't effect their lives. People are just overly disappointed and venting here - it's good therapy. But thanks for coming out boss!

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:56 AM
  #62
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I mean even if we trade Kessel for the #1 pick and get McKinnon, who's to say he won't "Daigle" is NHL career away? (lol Ottawa)
Kessel just last year exceeded the number of goals Daigle scored.

Burke really ripped the soul out of the Leafs, it will take years to recover from his blarney.

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01-29-2013, 10:57 AM
  #63
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1) Who cares about age if none of them become good.
2) He's not much of a captain. I think his prime was his first couple years in Calgary.
3) Kadri Kessel JVR as our top line for the next couple of years.... Going to get pushed around easily. JVR is not a Corey Perry type power forward, he's just big, that's it.
4) Upside, yes. If they will achieve it? Who knows. What's the last superstars we've developed...Kaberle?
5) Don't you have to resign that "young captain" and "top line going forward" in Kadri and Kessel? Hell Lupul and Grabo alone are 11 mil.
Glad you came by...

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:57 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by iArts View Post
Just wanted to share my thoughts.

I used to get really excited for every game. I used to be nervous in the last minutes of the game.
After all these years tho, I just can't anymore.

Now, I fully expect them to blow every lead we have. If we're losing with 2-3 minutes left, it's pretty much game over in my mind because I'm not expecting them to even create one solid scoring opportunity. I don't expect goalies to make game-changing saves, or any of the forwards to be game-breakers.
I'm not even that excited for our games anymore, because all I can expect is disappointment.

Am I the only one feeling this way? Have I just lost the passion?
I think its because of the lockout. Ive been a fan for 15 years and until this year, actually had tantrums and cried when we lost (out of anger). Now....its like. Okay.........we suck.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:59 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I have some hope in our system in general, because Kessel, JVR, Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner, 1st 2013 represent a pretty good talent base...

But, aside from that, there is something fundamentally screwed about this group the way they seem to be so mentally soft and choke so much as a collective. I never really bought the excuse of the Blue and White disease back in Maurice's time since the team was never that skilled, but I think there's something wrong psychologically with this group that needs to be corrected. They're so fragile. And youth is no excuse because it's been happening for three years on a consistent basis.
Yup its been happening for a lot longer than 3 years Mate.

I say get some of these kids as far away from the Losing Attitudes of some of our Complacent Vets as humanly possible. I dont' care if you have to bring in New Vets - But having Reilly + some of the others get sucked into the "Don't try so hard were gonna loose anyway" Philosophy displayed by certan members of this team sickens me.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:59 AM
  #66
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The most challenging part for me is that the Leafs have few likable players from my perspective.

It's hard to be a fan of a team and not like the majority of guys playing for it. Gardiner, Grabovski, Kadri, JVR and Rielly are essentially the only guys I'm fans of on my favorite team...and that's weird.

I'm so indifferent towards players like macarthur, liles, kulemin, gunnarsson, komisarek, mcclement, etc etc.

Far cry from those teams in the early 00s with Sundin, Roberts, Mogilny, Tucker, Domi, McCabe, Kaberle, Cujo. That's a team you could get behind.

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01-29-2013, 11:00 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Brewsky View Post
1) Who cares about age if none of them become good.
2) He's not much of a captain. I think his prime was his first couple years in Calgary.
3) Kadri Kessel JVR as our top line for the next couple of years.... Going to get pushed around easily. JVR is not a Corey Perry type power forward, he's just big, that's it.
4) Upside, yes. If they will achieve it? Who knows. What's the last superstars we've developed...Kaberle?
5) Don't you have to resign that "young captain" and "top line going forward" in Kadri and Kessel? Hell Lupul and Grabo alone are 11 mil.
Agreed. This is one of the most honest answers I've seen on here. Just stating a fact. I for one have taken off my blinders years ago.... And we should have a thread discussing on how we were scammed... I'll start:

Best scam ever on Leaf fans: THE MONSTER! We all bought into him as the savior... and man did he look good in that first exhibition game against the Red Wings.... FREE WALLET!

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:00 AM
  #68
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For everyone here who says they've lost their passion, I guarantee you will have it again when they win two in a row. That's just being a fan.

I watch every Leafs game and I get totally stoked for all of them. Call me a fool, but this team has given me far too much playoff excitement in my lifetime to ever give up on them.

The best thing about living through the horrific Ballard years in the 80s, and to a lesser extent the frustrating Mike Murphy years, is that it taught you that things do get better eventually... and when they do, it is ****ing awesome.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:01 AM
  #69
Federko
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
Sure, I'm just saying I think we overpaid for Grab and Lupul, especially when we even an optimistic viewpoint doesn't necessarily consider them top forwards.

I think it would also have the potential to score 50, so kind of a tough one.
We did overpay for Grabs and Lupul. SO disappointed in their new contracts, or even how the Leafs brass see's them as a part of our "stanley cup" future.... This is a massive failure of epic proportions.

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01-29-2013, 11:02 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
It's so nice to have a positive post around here. 2 loses in a row and it's time to blow everything up around here!

I agree with all of your points, I hope for more of these threads.

*sits and waits for the usual's to come and **** on your corn flakes.*
Took five posts after yours. Not really all that bad considering the team's horrendous losing streak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewsky View Post
1) Who cares about age if none of them become good.
2) He's not much of a captain. I think his prime was his first couple years in Calgary.
3) Kadri Kessel JVR as our top line for the next couple of years.... Going to get pushed around easily. JVR is not a Corey Perry type power forward, he's just big, that's it.
4) Upside, yes. If they will achieve it? Who knows. What's the last superstars we've developed...Kaberle?
5) Don't you have to resign that "young captain" and "top line going forward" in Kadri and Kessel? Hell Lupul and Grabo alone are 11 mil.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:15 AM
  #71
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Agreed. This is one of the most honest answers I've seen on here. Just stating a fact. I for one have taken off my blinders years ago.... And we should have a thread discussing on how we were scammed... I'll start:

Best scam ever on Leaf fans: THE MONSTER! We all bought into him as the savior... and man did he look good in that first exhibition game against the Red Wings.... FREE WALLET!
Negative = Honest?

Gotcha.

Realists, Honest, No Blinders, Call it what you will, it is negative BS that does nothing positive for anyone involved. We talk about how the Habs cups from the past don't matter, or what so and so did 3 years ago means nothing, yet what we have done for the past 7 now matters? This team, staff, management and ownership has nothing to do with Pre-Lockout Leafs, just let it go and hope for the best. If you are done and don't care, go cheer for another team, you won't be missed.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:17 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdRowGreens View Post
For everyone here who says they've lost their passion, I guarantee you will have it again when they win two in a row. That's just being a fan.

I watch every Leafs game and I get totally stoked for all of them. Call me a fool, but this team has given me far too much playoff excitement in my lifetime to ever give up on them.

The best thing about living through the horrific Ballard years in the 80s, and to a lesser extent the frustrating Mike Murphy years, is that it taught you that things do get better eventually... and when they do, it is ****ing awesome.
I wish there was a way to keep the people who **** on this team from enjoying it once they make the playoffs. Tough times happen, you get through them as a fan base and don't turn on the team. I want the leafs to win for the none-fairweather fans. Crapping on the team is easy, sticking behind them through the bad times is far more difficult and honorable.

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01-29-2013, 11:20 AM
  #73
Bob Loblawbrovsky
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
Negative = Honest?

Gotcha.

Realists, Honest, No Blinders, Call it what you will, it is negative BS that does nothing positive for anyone involved. We talk about how the Habs cups from the past don't matter, or what so and so did 3 years ago means nothing, yet what we have done for the past 7 now matters? This team, staff, management and ownership has nothing to do with Pre-Lockout Leafs, just let it go and hope for the best. If you are done and don't care, go cheer for another team, you won't be missed.
You heard the man. Only blind optimistic fans need apply to Leaf land.

Everyone else that is disappointed this team hasn't made the playoffs for what will be going on a decade now, let's go cheer for the Sens.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:22 AM
  #74
Leo Trollmarov
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You heard the man. Only blind optimistic fans need apply to Leaf land.

Everyone else that is disappointed this team hasn't made the playoffs for what will be going on a decade now, let's go cheer for the Sens.
Yes that's exactly what I said...

There is no need for either extreme. But I guess it is much easier to be fairweather, no one wants to cheer for a bad team, only the team that wins right? The best part will be when they do win and the regulars here come and claim they have been a supportive fans through thick and thin, never giving up on the team

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01-29-2013, 11:30 AM
  #75
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This team is second youngest in the league,and with plenty of prospects/assets,and cap space if we can be in half decent shape in terms of having a shot at getting a play-off spot nailed down. We sit pretty nicely with blue chip prospects in Naz,Rielly,and Gards too.

I disagree with the "2nd youngest team" rationality it's nothing but a cheap cop-out. Lets look at this:

Lupul (31)-Bozak(27)-(Kessel 25)- Lupul is leaning towards the end of his prime, Bozak is entering his, Kessel is still young though but keep in mind its also his 7th season.

Kulemin (26)-Grabo(29)-Mac (27)- All these players are in their primes, they aren't spring chickens at all.

Komoarov(27)-Kadri(22)-JVR(23)-This line really is our only "kid line"

Brown (27)-Mcclement(30)-Orr(31)- Oldest line on the team

Realisticly we're a team thats in our prime and when your team is in its prime, and the best they can muster up is a lottery team then its time to gut it and restart.

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