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McGran: Maple Leafs’ trades with Bruins, Sharks opportunities lost

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01-30-2013, 01:22 AM
  #151
Giuseppe Sallo
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This upcoming draft will change all that, when we draft Drouin or McKinnon. I can feel a turnaround, baby.

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01-30-2013, 01:30 AM
  #152
charliolemieux
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Why did I click on this thread?

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01-30-2013, 05:15 AM
  #153
Billy6
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Originally Posted by Porn* View Post
it's called hindsight; we get it. leave it be.... find something a little more recent and relevant to write about. this is getting very tiresome.
It's also about learning from past mistakes so as not to repeat them in the future.

The Leafs are again at a point where they need to decide on a plan to improve this team over the next 5 years. Lets not make the same mistakes that got us into this mess in the first place.

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01-30-2013, 08:46 AM
  #154
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It's also about learning from past mistakes so as not to repeat them in the future.

The Leafs are again at a point where they need to decide on a plan to improve this team over the next 5 years. Lets not make the same mistakes that got us into this mess in the first place.
Right and Leafs management should definitely look back and learn; however, last time I looked, the people posting in threads like this one weren't part of the Leafs management team.

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01-30-2013, 09:24 AM
  #155
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I always hate when people use the excuse that Burke didnt know where the Leafs would finish when he made the Kessel deal.

The most important part of being a GM is evaluating talent. Burke looked at the Leafs and thought we were a couple of experienced D-men and Kessel away from being a playoff team. He was dead wrong. For that, he should have been axed immediately. Those moves set the rebuild back for years. He was also wrong many times about the skill level of guys on the team, especially the goalies.

I heard Doug Maclean on The Fan the other day and he said Burke once said the secret to success in the NHL as a GM is to finish last for 5 years. If true, its amazing that he said that, because the moves he made fly in the face of that logic.

Now, the flip side is, who the heck knows where we would have finished without those guys, and who we would have picked with our picks. So its by no means a guarantee to lead to a contender, but its a much better path than the one we chose.

The best course of action we could take now is trade everyone on this team under the age of 23. Stockpile assets for what everyone says is a deep draft. Let the kids we have get some time in the N, and hopefully in 5 years you have a strong nucleus of talent that is maybe one or two pieces from contending.
I agree that it's a poor excuse to say that nobody, including Burke, expected the Leafs to finish where they did. The place in the standings is ultimately on Burke. On the flip side, I think too much is being made about Burke not evaluating the team well, while the other great GM's evaluate their teams accurately. Teams surprise all the time, both positively and negatively.

One of the biggest problems has been goaltending, and for all of the luck the Leafs had with goaltending during the Quinn era, they have been absolutely cursed during the Burke era and even before that. Toskala, Gustavsson, Giguere, Reimer all had injury problems throughout the past 3 seasons. None of them were exactly Vezina candidates, but if they had been healthy and provided some stability and even average goaltending, the team probably would have fared better.

I agree though it was still probably an ill-advised move because, even if the team had fared better and given worse picks to the Bruins, it doesn't change the state of the Leafs one iota.

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01-30-2013, 11:37 AM
  #156
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I agree that it's a poor excuse to say that nobody, including Burke, expected the Leafs to finish where they did. The place in the standings is ultimately on Burke. On the flip side, I think too much is being made about Burke not evaluating the team well, while the other great GM's evaluate their teams accurately. Teams surprise all the time, both positively and negatively.

One of the biggest problems has been goaltending, and for all of the luck the Leafs had with goaltending during the Quinn era, they have been absolutely cursed during the Burke era and even before that. Toskala, Gustavsson, Giguere, Reimer all had injury problems throughout the past 3 seasons. None of them were exactly Vezina candidates, but if they had been healthy and provided some stability and even average goaltending, the team probably would have fared better.

I agree though it was still probably an ill-advised move because, even if the team had fared better and given worse picks to the Bruins, it doesn't change the state of the Leafs one iota.
So your saying there is even a IF factor that this team could have done better those 2 years WITHOUT Phil in the line up?

WTH did we trade for then, if there is even a IF possibility.

You can't give excuses to any GM that trades high picks or highly touted youth and fails.

If we all did, then those trades are all win win for a GM from a PR points of view, no?

It's their job to assess, correctly.

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01-30-2013, 11:54 AM
  #157
MajorityRules
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Still crying over spilt milk I see.

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01-30-2013, 01:13 PM
  #158
Faltorvo
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Originally Posted by Majority Rules View Post
Still crying over split milk I see.
When was it EVER OK to comment in a negative light regarding this trade?

At the start it was, wait to see where we finish in the standings, you don't have a crystal ball.

Then it was , wait to see what these guys turn into, if anything, pffft.

Now that we are really starting to see what this trade is turning into, it's, oh man that was SO yesterday's news?

It's funny how only bad trades have a statute of limitations.

When do we stop bragging about the Dion,Gard's/Lupus trades?


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01-30-2013, 01:32 PM
  #159
Joey Hoser
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
When was it EVER OK to comment in a negative light regarding this trade?

At the start it was, wait to see where we finish in the standings, you don't have a crystal ball.

Then it was , wait to see what these guys turn into, if anything, pffft.

Now that we are really starting to see what this trade is turning into, it's, oh man that was SO yesterday's news?

It's funny how only bad trades have a statute of limitations.

When do we stop bragging about the Dion,Gard's/Lupus trades?
Do you honestly believe that you hear more bragging about the Dion or Gardiner trade than you hear criticism of the Kessel trade?

Seriously, not a day goes by here without mentions of Tyler Seguin and how bad Kessel sucks. The trade was 4 years ago. Get over it.

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01-30-2013, 01:39 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Giuseppe Sallo View Post
This upcoming draft will change all that, when we draft Drouin or McKinnon. I can feel a turnaround, baby.
There's no guarantee at all that we draft top 3. Not even top 5.

Definitely possible. But we're probably one of a solid ~6-8 teams that could realistically end up in the bottom 3. But with no inter-conference games, this prevents lower seeeded Western teams from gaining points against Eastern Conference teams (West is deeper, there bottom teams except Columbus would be peripheral playoff teams in the East).

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01-30-2013, 01:54 PM
  #161
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Right and Leafs management should definitely look back and learn; however, last time I looked, the people posting in threads like this one weren't part of the Leafs management team.
we can't impact anything that has happened, or anything that is going to happen with this team.

so should we all stop talking about it?

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01-30-2013, 01:57 PM
  #162
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Burke helped Boston get Hamilton.

He insisted on playing garbage goaltending until an injury forced the call up of Reimer.Saying he had no idea where he would finish is a cop out.All he had to do was look at where they had finished prior and one could have expected 2 bottom 7 picks.I refuse to overlook the fact Burke is from Boston and mysteriously overpaid for Kessel.

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01-30-2013, 02:05 PM
  #163
ACC1224
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
we can't impact anything that has happened, or anything that is going to happen with this team.

so should we all stop talking about it?
Not all need to stop talking just some.

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01-30-2013, 02:07 PM
  #164
Gobias Industries
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Originally Posted by darrylsittler27 View Post
He insisted on playing garbage goaltending until an injury forced the call up of Reimer.Saying he had no idea where he would finish is a cop out.All he had to do was look at where they had finished prior and one could have expected 2 bottom 7 picks.I refuse to overlook the fact Burke is from Boston and mysteriously overpaid for Kessel.
Swing and a miss.

Fun misplaced speculation though!

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01-30-2013, 02:08 PM
  #165
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Ignoring the fact that our first didn't land Couture (it was Eller), let's pretend it did. If we had Rask and Couture, there's a pretty good chance we would have won a handful of more games in Seguin/Hamilton's draft years. How many one goal games did we lose to bad goaltending or a lack of offense? How many did we lose to teams who finished 3-7 in Seguin's draft year or 9-14 in Hamilton's?

Which means that we never would have had an opportunity to land those players in the first place. Rask was a mistake, but the Kessel deal was fine once you take out hindsight of the equation (which most people don't). There's a reason Chiarelli was not happy after the trade. He got the last laugh, but that was more the team's fault than the GM.

Actually, if Kessel hadn't been on the Leafs, it's a fairly safe assumption that we'd have Hall, not Seguin.

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01-30-2013, 02:13 PM
  #166
MajorityRules
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
When was it EVER OK to comment in a negative light regarding this trade?

At the start it was, wait to see where we finish in the standings, you don't have a crystal ball.

Then it was , wait to see what these guys turn into, if anything, pffft.

Now that we are really starting to see what this trade is turning into, it's, oh man that was SO yesterday's news?

It's funny how only bad trades have a statute of limitations.

When do we stop bragging about the Dion,Gard's/Lupus trades?
So that's a YES for you.

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01-30-2013, 02:23 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
http://thecurseoffrankmahovlich.blog...ple-leafs.html

10 worst trades in Toronto Maple Leafs history
Reprinting the post in honour of the NHL trading deadline. Let's hope Brian Burke doesn't add to the list.



Some of us have lived them all.
Yes, sadly we have!

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:17 PM
  #168
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The Leafs won last night, so the next slate of articles asking for Carlyle to be fired or talking more about the Kessel trade is put on hold.

Is Morgan Rielly a bust yet? Or is he fat?

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