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Old
01-29-2013, 10:57 PM
  #376
SuperGenius
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Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
Wow that might be the best thing to come from The Fan in 20+ years.
I think it was on the Bishop/Rothman show.

It just makes sense. If you're going to be miserable with a loss or some mistakes, this probably isn't something you'll want to follow closely. Manage your expectations, as they said.

I agree that they're professionals and as such they should play hard, perform, etc etc, but we've known all along this is going to be an offensively challenged team. Why some are so disgusted after a short camp I have no idea. It's going to take time for even this team to realize it's potential, however modest that may be. The one thing you can control if the rest isn't working, it's working hard and character and with the exception of the PHX game, I feel like I'm seeing that so far.

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01-29-2013, 10:57 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Who leads the team in minus ratinng?
+/- is a team stat, not individual.

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01-29-2013, 11:00 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by SuperGenius View Post
I'll sum it up.

CBJ came out flying for first 10mins. Soft Goal MIN. All energy sucked out of CBJ until sometime in the second when they pulled to 2-1. Solid third period, coming back to tie it (PP goal!), then a defensive breakdown at the defensive blue line leads to a 2 on 1 break with a snipe to give MIN the lead. 2 failed PPs later, the game was over.

CBJ showed some character on the road, quick start, then being able to come back from 2-0 after going flat after the softie. Mason was actually fairly excellent, but allowed a soft one again when the team least needed it. (on MIN's second shot, no less).
And when the team MOST needed him to make a big save, after a defensive breakdown led to a one on one in the 3rd, he did not. That's what all of the bickering about Mason was about tonight. I admit my disappointment in his ability to come through in the clutch jaded my initial evaluation of his overall performance.

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01-29-2013, 11:00 PM
  #379
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Also under the radar but I think Colton Gillies has played very strong the last 2 games.

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01-29-2013, 11:00 PM
  #380
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Boll looked excellent tonight in my opinion. I was really happy with Letestu as well (goal and 1 off the post plus decent defense).

The 3rd goal was a defensive lapse by Moore and Tyutin.

Dubinsky is at least playing solid hockey if he isn't creating offense. Johansen and Prospal are currently our best forward duo imo.

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01-29-2013, 11:01 PM
  #381
1857 Howitzer
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Originally Posted by SuperGenius View Post
I think it was on the Bishop/Rothman show.

It just makes sense. If you're going to be miserable with a loss or some mistakes, this probably isn't something you'll want to follow closely. Manage your expectations, as they said.

I agree that they're professionals and as such they should play hard, perform, etc etc, but we've known all along this is going to be an offensively challenged team. Why some are so disgusted after a short camp I have no idea. It's going to take time for even this team to realize it's potential, however modest that may be. The one thing you can control if the rest isn't working, it's working hard and character and with the exception of the PHX game, I feel like I'm seeing that so far.
They are the few working there with triple digit IQs. And I agree with your post. If something brought out the hate and misery in me that I sometimes see on these boards and twitter I would move on and find something else to do with my time.

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01-29-2013, 11:02 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by SuperGenius View Post
I'd like to share this sentiment, but wow, he's been so disappointing so far. Spectacularly so, really. He just doesn't look right. Either he's literally 'lost it' or is hurt in some way, but he is not pulling his weight to this observer.

that said, there's hardly any one cause for what we're seeing here, but it seems to me that the major pieces are:

lack of solid forward play
bad passing out of the defensive zone
poor PP

IMO, nothing incurable is going on here. I think we're seeing what you see when you throw together a bunch of new guys with a little more than two weeks of ice time together. Let's face it, this is never going to be a pretty team to watch. I appreciate the work ethic, particularly in comparison to what I've seen over the years. If that makes someone question my fandom or hockey sense, they can **** off.

I was stuck with the Jeep today and didn't have XM, so I listened to the radio for the first time in awhile. One of the 97.1 guys actually made a point today that I wish some folks would take to heart.

This team isn't going to compete for a cup, and is not deserving of 12 years of pent up venom. The organization is at a turning point, and is going forward with a plan to build a contender. It's going to take some time, brick by brick, as it were and you can either choose to watch them grow and enjoy the change in culture and ability as these players grow, or you can be miserable and ***** at them like an abusive parent at a midget game.
Totally agreed on everything but especially with the current issues.

The power play and defensive zone passing will be tightened up as the season goes along, I have no doubt about that. We have solid hard-working forwards, However we lack players with the ability to create their own offense consistently. Johansen is trending in the right direction and Atkinson is a capable fill in. But having skilled forwards really takes pressure off the defense and goaltending.

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01-29-2013, 11:02 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
+/- is a team stat, not individual.
a minus means you were on the ice for a goal against. it is true that doesn't mean you were directly the cause of that goal. but, if you are consistently a minus player, or over the course of many games are a double digit minus player, it is very telling.

we were a bad team last year. Jack ended up +5 (although he only played like 20 games).

This year, we are a bad team yet Jack is only -1.

Toots is already -4.

Basically, even without super skilled forwards and everything, when Jack is on the ice we have a chance and usually, when Tyutin is on the ice, the other team has a chance. Also - it means when Tyutin provides offensive (which he absolutely does) he cancels it out, while Jack's offense can help us win because he is more responsible

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01-29-2013, 11:04 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post

The 3rd goal was a defensive lapse by Moore and Tyutin.
And not to make excuses for that goal, but you have to think that there might have been some miscommunication between the two of them since they have not played with each other yet this season.

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01-29-2013, 11:04 PM
  #385
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Losing shouldn't be fun.

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01-29-2013, 11:04 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by SuperGenius View Post
I was stuck with the Jeep today and didn't have XM, so I listened to the radio for the first time in awhile. One of the 97.1 guys actually made a point today that I wish some folks would take to heart.

This team isn't going to compete for a cup, and is not deserving of 12 years of pent up venom. The organization is at a turning point, and is going forward with a plan to build a contender. It's going to take some time, brick by brick, as it were and you can either choose to watch them grow and enjoy the change in culture and ability as these players grow, or you can be miserable and ***** at them like an abusive parent at a midget game.
And that's why I refuse to join the lynch mob clamoring for the head of the GM. Casting the sins of the previous one (who refused to actually put NHL talent in the system) onto the current one is...well, I'm not finishing my sentence.

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01-29-2013, 11:06 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
Losing shouldn't be fun.
I don't think the importance of a good home record this year can be stressed enough.

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01-29-2013, 11:08 PM
  #388
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If they are rotating the "A" then Dubie deserves to wear one soon

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01-29-2013, 11:09 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
And that's why I refuse to join the lynch mob clamoring for the head of the GM. Casting the sins of the previous one (who refused to actually put NHL talent in the system) onto the current one is...well, I'm not finishing my sentence.
You realize that it wont be much longer until Howson has been in the job as long as MacLean was. How many more years until HOWSON becomes accountable?

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01-29-2013, 11:11 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
And not to make excuses for that goal, but you have to think that there might have been some miscommunication between the two of them since they have not played with each other yet this season.
I often wonder what the communication is like between Mason and the defensemen. Why is getting hung out to dry so much more often than our other goalies?

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01-29-2013, 11:12 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Tyutin is officially the worst player in the NHL.
This is officially the worst post in HF. Tyutin is by no means the worst player in the NHL and to suggest that is just per hyperbole, much like my first sentence.

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01-29-2013, 11:12 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by SuperGenius View Post
I think it was on the Bishop/Rothman show.

It just makes sense. If you're going to be miserable with a loss or some mistakes, this probably isn't something you'll want to follow closely. Manage your expectations, as they said.

I agree that they're professionals and as such they should play hard, perform, etc etc, but we've known all along this is going to be an offensively challenged team. Why some are so disgusted after a short camp I have no idea. It's going to take time for even this team to realize it's potential, however modest that may be. The one thing you can control if the rest isn't working, it's working hard and character and with the exception of the PHX game, I feel like I'm seeing that so far.
My only expectation for this team is that we are competitive and tough to play at home- for the most part we have done exactly that.

I know I'm probably beating a dead horse here but I'm disgusted with Umberger coming into this season so out of shape. Seriously, watch any of his shifts that exceed 40 seconds. He stops moving his feet and makes really bad decisions with the puck. I hold Umberger to the highest expectation on this team because of his salary. I think we would be selling the rest of the team ( that is performing at a higher level) short not to call it out.

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01-29-2013, 11:16 PM
  #393
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Ultimately I didn't see anything in this game to get worked up about. It wasn't a bad road game for this team. We'll just keep building off games like this. For a transitional year, I'll take it.

The worst part of this whole thing is that there is no practice time. This team could really use it. The PP needs help and the offensive zone play is pretty bad.

The effort is there. On that note, see everyone later.

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01-29-2013, 11:23 PM
  #394
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I missed tonight's game and can't tell a damn thing about the game from this GDT. So many posters I don't trust because of their established biases that they refuse to come off of.
It was a fun game to watch.

First goal was a frustrating bounce off of Mason from a sharp angle that was eerily similiar to Prospal's goal last night.

Second goal was a bad bounce from Wiz blocking a shot that ended up on someone's tape.

Third goal, our defense was flat footed at the blue line and Mason was hung out to dry and beat high glove.


But we battled hard, and a lot of players are starting to come around, and starting to play better. Fewer stupid turnovers. Our powerplay looked horrid again. We had trouble entering the zone for pretty much the entire game save for the last 25-30 minutes of the game. Still starting slow. RJ didn't look too hot again. He made a really bad play when he was pretty much alone in the offensive zone, pulled up, and stood there until someone stripped the puck away from him. He's still too predictable.

We had some good looks on net, and there were one or two chances we probably should have buried, but overall we were outplayed. Our first goal was just grinding int out in their zone until they got tired.

But it wasn't an overly frustrating game to watch as was the Colorado game. Fun game to have seen, imo. We're still having major trouble gaining the offensive zone and the powerplay, getting better at clearing the zone, and Dubinsky looks stronger on the puck than he did earlier.



I think it's a matter of playing together a little longer. With so many new faces, a new coach, a new system, I think it's going to take a while. But I think from the beginning of the season, even from the first game in Nashville, there have been a lot of improvements on how we play as a team.

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01-29-2013, 11:25 PM
  #395
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Ultimately I didn't see anything in this game to get worked up about. It wasn't a bad road game for this team. We'll just keep building off games like this. For a transitional year, I'll take it.

The worst part of this whole thing is that there is no practice time. This team could really use it. The PP needs help and the offensive zone play is pretty bad.

The effort is there. On that note, see everyone later.
at the end of this year, we'll give all our players stanley cup trophys and then throw them a pizza party.


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01-29-2013, 11:25 PM
  #396
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Time for real NHL players and a real NHL coach. And fans who expect real NHL hockey and aren't satisfied with "effort" as if these are a bunch of twelve years olds and not millionaire professionals.
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Originally Posted by SuperGenius View Post
How about fans who understand what a rebuild is, and having realistic expectations as such?
Not to put words in his mouth, but I feel that his frustration and many fans frustration is completely reasonable and warranted. Its been 12 years without a single playoff victory, yet we continue down the same path.

I think what frustrates most fans, and myself included, is that it does not take this long to rebuild. Over the course of the past decade we have seen teams worse than us, then become better than us, then bottom out, only to become better than us again. The Edmonton Oilers come to mind.

We have also seen multiple teams that were serious Cup contenders at the beginning of our franchise, bottom out and finish worse than us in the standings, and are now back in the playoffs again. Two examples would be the Lightning and Penguins.

Point is. Other teams rebuild not only quicker but more efficiently than us. Youre not this bad, this long, without there being a major problem.

Im not gonna chastise a fellow fan for being ticked and frustrated. They should be. Its been a long bumpy ride. Perhaps only the Cleveland Browns rival the Jackets in all of sports, in terms of being inept.

So forgive fans for being impatient during a "rebuild". They have been through a dozen or so of these rebuilds already. The last 6 with the same GM.

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01-29-2013, 11:31 PM
  #397
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You realize that it wont be much longer until Howson has been in the job as long as MacLean was. How many more years until HOWSON becomes accountable?
Thank you!!!

I just want to know at what point is Howson finally held accountable by some. In no other NHL city would he still be employed.

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01-29-2013, 11:36 PM
  #398
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Originally Posted by SuperGenius View Post
I think it was on the Bishop/Rothman show.

It just makes sense. If you're going to be miserable with a loss or some mistakes, this probably isn't something you'll want to follow closely. Manage your expectations, as they said.

I agree that they're professionals and as such they should play hard, perform, etc etc, but we've known all along this is going to be an offensively challenged team. Why some are so disgusted after a short camp I have no idea. It's going to take time for even this team to realize it's potential, however modest that may be. The one thing you can control if the rest isn't working, it's working hard and character and with the exception of the PHX game, I feel like I'm seeing that so far.
I really think some of you are making up seeing character. I don't see any more resolve or character than I have any other year. There are only two overall differences between this years team and last years team and it has nothing to do with attitude. It's our penalty kill is hot right now and our offense is terrible compared to last year (didn't think that was possible).

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01-29-2013, 11:40 PM
  #399
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And when the team MOST needed him to make a big save, after a defensive breakdown led to a one on one in the 3rd, he did not. That's what all of the bickering about Mason was about tonight. I admit my disappointment in his ability to come through in the clutch jaded my initial evaluation of his overall performance.
Understandably it's disappointing he didn't make that save in the 3rd when the game was on the line, however, he's the sole reason why it was even a game at that point in the first place. How many point blank saves did he make coming across the crease, 2...3? I'd argue that those were just as crucial of saves as any, especially on the PK. He played a very good game. And despite letting in a poor goal early on, he rebounded nicely and gave us a shot...that's all you can ask for. The game was lost on a defensive lapse that allowed an uncontested opponent walk right in and score. Tbh, not many goalies make that save. Give credit when credit is due. Mason seems to be turning a corner.

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01-29-2013, 11:43 PM
  #400
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A team with character does not consistently lose games in regulation that it is either leading or tied in the 3rd period.

Getting off to slow starts, taking bad penalties, blowing games late in the 3rd (the most critical time), having your highest paid and veteran players making the most rookie mistakes - this is the opposite of character.

I do love the energy and character of the new guys. But it's clear to me that energy won't be able to fully take hold of the locker room until the last remnants of the "country club" era are gone.

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