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Columbus needs a pure finisher

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Old
02-02-2013, 12:49 AM
  #76
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02-02-2013, 01:28 AM
  #77
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02-02-2013, 01:43 AM
  #78
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Ovechkin. Chance for him to get a fresh start with very little pressure on him.

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02-02-2013, 08:40 AM
  #79
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Ask almost any Jacket fan, we're better without Nash right now. Glad he's doing well, but moving him was vital in moving Columbus towards being a competitive team.
I have no doubt the majority of Jackets fans feel that way. The fans of all teams feel that way when they trade away someone.

But from most outsiders' perspective, you've traded away a really good player, and got back a bunch of things that range from good to question marks. The fact is, the Jackets aren't competitive. It's pretty unlikely they'll be competitive next year either. It's quite possible that beyond that they'll have a competitive team, but nothing garnered from the dealing of Nash will be the key pieces in that turnaround imo.

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02-02-2013, 08:47 AM
  #80
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LOL I Love the "Hey stay the course and build through the draft" people. Columbus has been in the league since 2000. They've had the following 1st round picks:

4
8
1
4
8
6
6
7
6
21
4
2


What exactly have they achieved so far with all of those picks? What will be different in the future? I'm not saying trade away their own 1st this year, but if they can get something decent with NY or LA's picks... do it

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02-02-2013, 08:49 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I have no doubt the majority of Jackets fans feel that way. The fans of all teams feel that way when they trade away someone.

But from most outsiders' perspective, you've traded away a really good player, and got back a bunch of things that range from good to question marks. The fact is, the Jackets aren't competitive. It's pretty unlikely they'll be competitive next year either. It's quite possible that beyond that they'll have a competitive team, but nothing garnered from the dealing of Nash will be the key pieces in that turnaround imo.
Just because you trade away the best player in the deal doesn't mean you lose or get worse.

This team is actually better on the ice than the one with Carter and Nash. There is a tangible difference.

Trading Nash goes along with the regime change. All players talk about is how since he is no longer there they have a new identity. He isn't the 800 pound gorilla in the room. They were told "just get the puck to Nash ," "this is Nash's team," and all things went through him. Now they are trying to establish a team that is hard to play against and is physical. That is something that John Davidson was very frank about, that he felt we couldn't have a competitive team with Nash on the roster.

He said during the offseason that this team would struggle to put up offense. He knew we don't have any bonafide first liners. What he said was to be patient and the team is starting over and will build through the draft.


Last edited by Crede777: 02-02-2013 at 08:57 AM.
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Old
02-02-2013, 09:07 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
LOL I Love the "Hey stay the course and build through the draft" people. Columbus has been in the league since 2000. They've had the following 1st round picks:

4
8
1
4
8
6
6
7
6
21
4
2


What exactly have they achieved so far with all of those picks? What will be different in the future? I'm not saying trade away their own 1st this year, but if they can get something decent with NY or LA's picks... do it
Wow, the ignorance here is astounding. You do realize that the GM from 2000 isn't here anymore, right? Wow.

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Old
02-02-2013, 09:54 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I have no doubt the majority of Jackets fans feel that way. The fans of all teams feel that way when they trade away someone.

But from most outsiders' perspective, you've traded away a really good player, and got back a bunch of things that range from good to question marks. The fact is, the Jackets aren't competitive. It's pretty unlikely they'll be competitive next year either. It's quite possible that beyond that they'll have a competitive team, but nothing garnered from the dealing of Nash will be the key pieces in that turnaround imo.
Big Nash fan here. Not glad he's gone but if you look at Columbus most would realize they are no better off with him right now. And having the length of contract and value remaining it made sense to move him. Anisimov has been pretty good for the most part. Erixon playing very well in the AHL (his debut wasn't great but against the Blues with no practice I'll withold judgement). Dubinsky....he's the rub for me. Working very hard but there is somethign missing from his game that seemed to be there 2 years ago. He and Umberger are brutal in the offensive zone right now.

Anyway, having Nash on this CBJ team means we delay the improvement longer. I wish him well but that's really hard to say growing up an Islanders fan.... 1940? (damn Messier )

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Old
02-02-2013, 11:15 AM
  #84
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Wow, the ignorance here is astounding. You do realize that the GM from 2000 isn't here anymore, right? Wow.
A double wow post. Impressive.

That said, your post has nothing to do with anything I wrote. Columbus, like many bad teams, has had a boatload of high picks before. The idea that building a contender is simple: tank for a couple years and bam instand champ, isn't true. Lots of teams suck and suck and suck, and get pick and pick and pick and don't improve. This is especially true when you deal away the actual guys who were good picks and get back worse players.

Yes, it's absolutely possible that Johansen, Ryan Murray, and maybe McKinnon help lead a new Jackets future. But having Nash here wouldn't have precluded any of that.

The Jackets are 12 years into their franchise and don't have any excuses for why they haven't been good. It's great that they have different management then they did 12 years ago, but if the current GM's plan is just to suck again and hope for a high pick, that's not much different than the last GM.

And nevermind the fact that even if you do get MacKinnon, you are talking about what, 3 more years before you expect an Atkinsson, McKinnon, Johansen, Murray team from being all that special and that's IF you make a bunch of other good moves.

Tanking works when you get Crosby and Malkin back to back. Otherwise it's not he best strategy out there.

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02-02-2013, 11:46 AM
  #85
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Wow, the ignorance here is astounding. You do realize that the GM from 2000 isn't here anymore, right? Wow.
it's more than just a GM, scouting, development etc.

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Old
02-02-2013, 12:23 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keslerbomb View Post
Ovechkin. Chance for him to get a fresh start with very little pressure on him.
The price would be way, way outside of what we would want to go for.

* * *
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I have no doubt the majority of Jackets fans feel that way. The fans of all teams feel that way when they trade away someone.

But from most outsiders' perspective, you've traded away a really good player, and got back a bunch of things that range from good to question marks. The fact is, the Jackets aren't competitive. It's pretty unlikely they'll be competitive next year either. It's quite possible that beyond that they'll have a competitive team, but nothing garnered from the dealing of Nash will be the key pieces in that turnaround imo.
You're just saying that because Nash habitually schooled Detroit.

Here's a helpful hint: when folks are saying "better", they're not talking about results. They're talking about effort on the ice.

As for outsider perspectives on Nash leaving - whatever. Don't care. We long ago got to the point where outside perspectives on the Jackets are seen as largely meaningless. Mostly because nobody ever bothers to do the research where we're involved. Why would they? We're the Blue Jackets. Nobody cares about the Blue Jackets.

* * *
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The Jackets are 12 years into their franchise and don't have any excuses for why they haven't been good.
Other than "Doug MacLean is one of the worst GMs in NHL history", and "there's been a culture of 'meh, whatever' in the locker room since about 2001 or 2002 or so as a result"

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Tanking works when you get Crosby and Malkin back to back. Otherwise it's not he best strategy out there.
That would be why we're not bothering with tanking for the sake of bringing in one or more One True Saviors, and instead swapping in a bunch of players who don't know the meaning of the word "quit", and who were significant parts of introducing that concept to the Rangers.

Talent's nice. Teamwork's more essential. The latter's what's being assembled right now.

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02-02-2013, 05:19 PM
  #87
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Talent's nice. Teamwork's more essential. The latter's what's being assembled right now.
I disagree. This isn't little league. Talent by large wins. Now, it's great that the Blue Jackets have added depth and role players who can affect a culture change. However, they are in dire need of a talent upgrade on their top lines and in net (though I think Bob has potential).

They have a bunch of prospects and nice picks, and giving up 1 or 2 for a legit 1st liner isn't mortgaging the future or setting the team back. It's moving it forward.

BTW I love what they have in Springfield. JAM just sores wherever he goes, and Michael Chaput, who I've liked for awhile, is now really starting to put it together offensively.

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02-02-2013, 09:03 PM
  #88
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I disagree. This isn't little league. Talent by large wins.
Talent that doesn't work with teammates gets nowhere. See: Zherdev, Filatov, et cetera. Sure, you've got to have it and we definitely need more, but it alone does not guarantee wins (otherwise, Washington would be in much better shape). The idea, as previously mentioned, is to get at least some semblance of a hockey team going, then start bringing in talent via the draft (since drafted forwards can start off much more quickly) and start winning more regularly.

And, heck, in the meantime, sometimes hard work and perseverance can get you wins regardless. Case in point: this evening's game.

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Now, it's great that the Blue Jackets have added depth and role players who can affect a culture change. However, they are in dire need of a talent upgrade on their top lines and in net (though I think Bob has potential).
See, that's what the draft is for.

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They have a bunch of prospects and nice picks, and giving up 1 or 2 for a legit 1st liner isn't mortgaging the future or setting the team back. It's moving it forward.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. We've played that game and it's blown up in our faces too many times because there's no working team structure. That needs to be set up first.

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BTW I love what they have in Springfield. JAM just sores wherever he goes, and Michael Chaput, who I've liked for awhile, is now really starting to put it together offensively.
That's also part of the plan there. Hopefully it keeps going well.

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02-02-2013, 09:10 PM
  #89
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A double wow post. Impressive.

That said, your post has nothing to do with anything I wrote. Columbus, like many bad teams, has had a boatload of high picks before. The idea that building a contender is simple: tank for a couple years and bam instand champ, isn't true. Lots of teams suck and suck and suck, and get pick and pick and pick and don't improve. This is especially true when you deal away the actual guys who were good picks and get back worse players.

Yes, it's absolutely possible that Johansen, Ryan Murray, and maybe McKinnon help lead a new Jackets future. But having Nash here wouldn't have precluded any of that.

The Jackets are 12 years into their franchise and don't have any excuses for why they haven't been good. It's great that they have different management then they did 12 years ago, but if the current GM's plan is just to suck again and hope for a high pick, that's not much different than the last GM.

And nevermind the fact that even if you do get MacKinnon, you are talking about what, 3 more years before you expect an Atkinsson, McKinnon, Johansen, Murray team from being all that special and that's IF you make a bunch of other good moves.

Tanking works when you get Crosby and Malkin back to back. Otherwise it's not he best strategy out there.
I may have been (read: was) a bit too harsh, but the fact remains that the Blue Jackets have never tanked. The highest draft pick the original draft position the team had prior to last season was 3rd overall. Even last season, the team clearly did not tank. They were among the top payrolls in the league.

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02-02-2013, 09:12 PM
  #90
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Grab Ryder in the off season.

Given time and space, he has the best shot in the league.

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02-02-2013, 09:29 PM
  #91
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He's got something of an Insanity Contract. $4m/yr for 4 years remaining, for two back-to-back 20-goal seasons (27 and 20).

Beyond that, I can only assume that he's being targeted by Avs fans for a rough start to the season the same way Jackets fans are targeting Umberger.
only a total apologist would defend the umberger.

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02-02-2013, 09:53 PM
  #92
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Just last summer we moved Voracek and a first for Jeff Carter. Look how that turned out.

We are trying to build like Phoenix and Nashville. They are fairly devoid of top line forward talent but are still quite successful because of hard work and playing great team defense.

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02-02-2013, 09:54 PM
  #93
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David Jones for something?

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02-02-2013, 09:58 PM
  #94
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Kessel for 2013+2014 1st round pick.

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02-02-2013, 10:06 PM
  #95
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If you're looking for a bit of a reclamation project, it's possible that the Sabres might be willing to offer up Drew Stafford or possibly Tyler Ennis in the right deals.

Stafford would come cheaper, certainly.

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02-02-2013, 10:29 PM
  #96
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Kessel for 2013+2014 1st round pick.

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02-02-2013, 10:45 PM
  #97
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Deals involving players like Murray, Johansen, Moore, Jenner, Audy-Marchessault, Calvert, etc. will not happen, especially not for players like Mike Cammalleri. I also don't forsee the front office being willing to trade any of their 1st round picks this year, it's too good a crop this year.
Nice...another "give us a top 6 but you can't have our best assets" thread...we don't want your spare parts at the expense of a top 6.

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02-02-2013, 10:46 PM
  #98
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David Jones for something?
Y'all would have to retain salary, which probably ends the discussion.

* * *
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Originally Posted by TmlHockeyFan View Post
Kessel for 2013+2014 1st round pick.
We're doing our rebuild, not Toronto's.

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If you're looking for a bit of a reclamation project, it's possible that the Sabres might be willing to offer up Drew Stafford or possibly Tyler Ennis in the right deals.

Stafford would come cheaper, certainly.
Stafford would be of potential interest, depending on the price. Not sure if he fits the discussion, though. Recall that what we're looking at is maybe a spare defenseman and a low pick at the most. I'd be a bit surprised if that was sufficient to pick up Stafford.

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Nice...another "give us a top 6 but you can't have our best assets" thread...we don't want your spare parts at the expense of a top 6.
Thanks for sharing. We're still not doing your rebuild for you.

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02-02-2013, 11:07 PM
  #99
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Thanks for sharing. We're still not doing your rebuild for you.
So exactly how do you expect to get a "pure finisher" from your scraps...the league is not doing your rebuild for you. Either give up good assets for good assets or expect nada. Since you seem to shut down many posts from people without giving a half decent reply why don't YOU come up with a proposal to give us an idea of what is "fair". Kessel's name is being thrown out a lot so why don't you make one for him...this should be entertaining considering you don't want to give up any young prospects.

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02-02-2013, 11:16 PM
  #100
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So exactly how do you expect to get a "pure finisher" from your scraps...the league is not doing your rebuild for you. Either give up good assets for good assets or expect nada. Since you seem to shut down many posts from people without giving a half decent reply why don't YOU come up with a proposal to give us an idea of what is "fair". Kessel's name is being thrown out a lot so why don't you make one for him...this should be entertaining considering you don't want to give up any young prospects.
Draft one. Not trade for one. Play this season with what we have even though it sucks offensively and take a high pick.

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