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Montreal Canadiens re-sign PK Subban (2 yrs/$5.75M) Part 2

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02-01-2013, 02:01 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
No more triple low five.

JohnLuTSNMtl:
#Habs Therrien says he wants his team and players to be humble in response to question about Subban/Price triple low 5 celebration.

https://twitter.com/johnlutsnmtl/sta...06462236438529
I generally don't care less about the celebration antics. Don't see the harm nor the big whoop about it. So whether it disappears or not isn't a big deal to me. But, to actually tell your players to tone it down and stop doing it? Yeah, like others says, I rather have the emotions than to be a bunch of zombies after a win.
On the other hand, if they are allowed to do it after a big win, well, that would be nice

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02-01-2013, 02:23 PM
  #252
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It's almost like Marc Bergevin feels threatened by Subban's gregarious personality.

Next there will be a directive for monosyllabic answers only to questions from the press.
Bergenvin was known to be a pretty colourful guy himself when he played the game, I doubt he feels threatened by PK.

Getting rid of the triple low 5 is not really a big deal. I highly doubt PK and Price even think twice about it, so why should you? Move on.

My fill of entertainment is already satisfied after 2 pts.

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02-02-2013, 06:30 PM
  #253
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02-02-2013, 07:32 PM
  #254
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As an aside,

next time Pierre LeBrun and Renaud Lavoie both state something as fact I don't want to hear any sheep saying "omg it's just a rumor!!! Bergy couldn't possibly have offered 2 years @ 2.5 million per !!!"

The quality of rumors is not constant, some are clearly more reliable than others. In this case, Lebrun and Lavoie's musings were confirmed as fact, which is no surprise.

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02-02-2013, 08:00 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I sure hope he gets tested. I am almost certain PK ain't cheating that way; it's just not his style.

And if he is, then let him be stripped of all honors. I don't like cheaters, even on my team.
We need to move on from our collective anti-steroid angst. It's largely a crock of bull.

I saw a video on steroids in cycling a while back. They had some cyclists sleeping in a decompressed chamber to simulate higher elevation. Basically, it's ok to train and sleep where there's less oxygen, so as to have more red blood cells, but it's not ok to take PPO. lol.

Creatine is ok. Whey protein is ok. Glutamine is ok. Stanozol? OMG ban this cheater for life !!!

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02-02-2013, 09:04 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
As an aside,

next time Pierre LeBrun and Renaud Lavoie both state something as fact I don't want to hear any sheep saying "omg it's just a rumor!!! Bergy couldn't possibly have offered 2 years @ 2.5 million per !!!"

The quality of rumors is not constant, some are clearly more reliable than others. In this case, Lebrun and Lavoie's musings were confirmed as fact, which is no surprise.
Don't do like thoses two are always right and didn't threw some garbage rumors during the lockout or at other point in their careers.

I mean, yes they are reliable guys, but you can never ever be sure of all their rumors at all time.

BTW I wanted to say kudos to François Gagnon to have called the signing on twitter by saying that this could end in the next 48 hours and it did.

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02-02-2013, 09:10 PM
  #257
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Solid first game for him.

Man does the D look good. Much deeper than I thought.

Underrated defense on this team. Mobile, quick, puck movers, solid hitters, shot blockers and a lot of depth.

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02-02-2013, 09:43 PM
  #258
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To all the pk fanboys bashing Gagnon about his comments. He praises his return today. is he wrong this time?

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02-02-2013, 10:12 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
To all the pk fanboys bashing Gagnon about his comments. He praises his return today. is he wrong this time?
Even a broken clock is right twice a day...

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02-02-2013, 10:21 PM
  #260
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To all the pk fanboys bashing Gagnon about his comments. He praises his return today. is he wrong this time?
TIL: Everyone is either always right about a subject, or always wrong about it. It is impossible to have said some wrong things in the past, and then say something right.

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02-02-2013, 11:23 PM
  #261
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We need to move on from our collective anti-steroid angst. It's largely a crock of bull.

I saw a video on steroids in cycling a while back. They had some cyclists sleeping in a decompressed chamber to simulate higher elevation. Basically, it's ok to train and sleep where there's less oxygen, so as to have more red blood cells, but it's not ok to take PPO. lol.

Creatine is ok. Whey protein is ok. Glutamine is ok. Stanozol? OMG ban this cheater for life !!!
The crock of bull clearly is yours and obviously you don't give a sh.. about what happens to the human guinea pigs. You display both cynicism and total ignorance of physiology and pharmacology. (Do I know more about those subjects than you do? You bet I do!) Steroid administration will help build muscles and increase aggression and, therefore, boost athletic performance, but it has permanent toxic effects on the body. Owners of sports teams should love steroid abuse. It promotes more home runs and touchdowns and goals, etc., which increases attendance. It also shortens lifespan, so pension payments run out sooner. Look at what ARod (Alex Rodriguez) has turned into. He's lucky he has a long term contract even though his body is disintegrating.

Erythropoietin doping to increase blood oxygen content (the Lance Armstrong ploy) is another form of cheating but at least there are no lingering unhealthful effects once it is stopped. So, if you want to inject Desharnais with androsterone to turn him into the Incredible Hulk you have to consider that he'll become prematurely crippled after he retires, with premature hip replacement, for example, and will have a shorter lifespan. It would also destroy his sex life. Now THAT would be tanking to improve the odds of winning the Stanley Cup!

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02-02-2013, 11:30 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
The crock of bull clearly is yours and obviously you don't give a sh.. about what happens to the human guinea pigs. You display both cynicism and total ignorance of physiology and pharmacology. (Do I know more about those subjects than you do? You bet I do!) Steroid administration will help build muscles and increase aggression and, therefore, boost athletic performance, but it has permanent toxic effects on the body. Owners of sports teams should love steroid abuse. It promotes more home runs and touchdowns and goals, etc., which increases attendance. It also shortens lifespan, so pension payments run out sooner. Look at what ARod (Alex Rodriguez) has turned into. He's lucky he has a long term contract even though his body is disintegrating.

Erythropoietin doping to increase blood oxygen content (the Lance Armstrong ploy) is another form of cheating but at least there are no lingering unhealthful effects once it is stopped. So, if you want to inject Desharnais with androsterone to turn him into the Incredible Hulk you have to consider that he'll become prematurely crippled after he retires, with premature hip replacement, for example, and will have a shorter lifespan. It would also destroy his sex life. Now THAT would be tanking to improve the odds of winning the Stanley Cup!
Right, because the nhl cares about the health of the players...

I guess it makes sense to ban steroids as it means players can go to the olympics.

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02-03-2013, 03:41 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
The crock of bull clearly is yours and obviously you don't give a sh.. about what happens to the human guinea pigs. You display both cynicism and total ignorance of physiology and pharmacology. (Do I know more about those subjects than you do? You bet I do!) Steroid administration will help build muscles and increase aggression and, therefore, boost athletic performance, but it has permanent toxic effects on the body. Owners of sports teams should love steroid abuse. It promotes more home runs and touchdowns and goals, etc., which increases attendance. It also shortens lifespan, so pension payments run out sooner. Look at what ARod (Alex Rodriguez) has turned into. He's lucky he has a long term contract even though his body is disintegrating.

Erythropoietin doping to increase blood oxygen content (the Lance Armstrong ploy) is another form of cheating but at least there are no lingering unhealthful effects once it is stopped. So, if you want to inject Desharnais with androsterone to turn him into the Incredible Hulk you have to consider that he'll become prematurely crippled after he retires, with premature hip replacement, for example, and will have a shorter lifespan. It would also destroy his sex life. Now THAT would be tanking to improve the odds of winning the Stanley Cup!
Not to mention that excessive training which is the everyday life of high level professional athletes until they retire, is already pretty bad for long term health (and memory; the vicious circle of glucocorticoid regulation by the hippocampus), as glucocorticoid, epinephrine and nor-epinephrine levels are constantly higher throughout their adult life compared to the average human, shortening their lifespans, or at the very least opening a floodgate of ailments in the latter years of their life, adding performance enhancing drugs is just asking for additional trouble, further escalating the potential decline and deterioration.

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Old
02-03-2013, 04:05 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
"Ill take a punch in the face for the team"


-PK SUBBAN


If that kid ever manage to channel that inner fire, sieve and refine it; he'll be a great captain.

Such an inner fire, when harnessed, is what true leaders are all about. When left unchecked, they just burn people the wrong way.

I hope Therrien is out to help Subban harness it, not snuff out the flame

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Old
02-03-2013, 04:08 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
As an aside,

next time Pierre LeBrun and Renaud Lavoie both state something as fact I don't want to hear any sheep saying "omg it's just a rumor!!! Bergy couldn't possibly have offered 2 years @ 2.5 million per !!!"

The quality of rumors is not constant, some are clearly more reliable than others. In this case, Lebrun and Lavoie's musings were confirmed as fact, which is no surprise.
that's the funny thing with facts, there's always someone stating THIS or that is a fact, and yet, the story unlfolds and we have yet to hear from the parties involved that those "facts delivery guys" were right, and once the story is over, we realise the player signed for different numbers than ANYONE predicted.

and THAT's a fact!

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02-03-2013, 05:06 AM
  #266
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that's the funny thing with facts, there's always someone stating THIS or that is a fact, and yet, the story unlfolds and we have yet to hear from the parties involved that those "facts delivery guys" were right, and once the story is over, we realise the player signed for different numbers than ANYONE predicted.

and THAT's a fact!
Right, you have to use logic to be able to deduce which rumours are more reliable than others.

Just go by reputation: Lavoie, Lebrun, have a better batting average than *************** and eklund. You can also think about how the rumor fits into what's happening, and whether or not it is consistent with past actions.

In this case, the rumor was quite logical. Maybe the details were wrong, but the picture was consistent with all information such as Bergevin's comments on the issue, backed by credible rumors, and confirmed by the final results.

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02-03-2013, 07:06 AM
  #267
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Everything considered I think Subban played very well. I'm extremely happy to have him back!

And what's this?!??! I'm watching the highlights on TSN and Eller compliments his game! I thought they all hated him!

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02-03-2013, 07:34 AM
  #268
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He's 23

He's playing well and he will play better than he did yesterday once he's back a week or two. He'll be calmer and more respected once he's been in the league a few years. He'll still be black and people will still blast him for things they ignore or praise in others.

Have to keep him happy and hope to be able to keep him and Markov and Diaz.

I didn't think Kaberle looked as bad as last season but he's unlikely to crack the top 6.

The team seriously needs a big defensive defenceman or two. Ellis and Tinordi need to bulk up and learn.

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02-03-2013, 08:18 AM
  #269
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Everything considered I think Subban played very well. I'm extremely happy to have him back!

And what's this?!??! I'm watching the highlights on TSN and Eller compliments his game! I thought they all hated him!
Eller is PK's age and he's a weird character himself. He definitely "gets" PK.

He's definitely one of the PK's friends in the LR, based on everything I've seen or heard.

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02-03-2013, 08:25 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
We need to move on from our collective anti-steroid angst. It's largely a crock of bull.

I saw a video on steroids in cycling a while back. They had some cyclists sleeping in a decompressed chamber to simulate higher elevation. Basically, it's ok to train and sleep where there's less oxygen, so as to have more red blood cells, but it's not ok to take PPO. lol.

Creatine is ok. Whey protein is ok. Glutamine is ok. Stanozol? OMG ban this cheater for life !!!
There's a much bigger difference between all the supplements you mentioned and steroid.
However, I do agree on one notion, steroid use should not be banned, it should be legal. To the same effect as cigarettes or alcohol, or heck, even sugar!

People have this misconceived idea that anybody who takes steroids can become this superman. It's absolutely wrong. It's not because you take steroids that you can become a 7 time your de France winner, or reach the record for home runs in the MLB.
You still have to be extremely gifted to reach those goals.

But we should legalize steroids. If you can't beat them, join them.

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02-03-2013, 08:48 AM
  #271
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Does anybody know what Therrien said in his press conference about PK? Apparently he spoke glowingly about him.

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02-03-2013, 09:47 AM
  #272
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This legalizing steroids talk is really troubling. Scares me that people actually think like that.

If the other guy puts crap in his body then I have to as well to be able to compete? What if someone doesn't want to? Then he has to use or be at a disadvantage? Screw that.

An athlete should be able to compete on a level playing field without having to use performance enhancing drugs. I'm glad it's as strict as it is and I hope it gets even more strict.

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02-03-2013, 10:38 AM
  #273
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Not to mention that excessive training which is the everyday life of high level professional athletes until they retire, is already pretty bad for long term health (and memory; the vicious circle of glucocorticoid regulation by the hippocampus), as glucocorticoid, epinephrine and nor-epinephrine levels are constantly higher throughout their adult life compared to the average human, shortening their lifespans, or at the very least opening a floodgate of ailments in the latter years of their life, adding performance enhancing drugs is just asking for additional trouble, further escalating the potential decline and deterioration.
Professional athletes are well adapted to higher training stress. Their schedule allows for rest, recovery and they have health professionals at their disposal. They also benefit from a long off-season year to year and an early retirement. They have much lower prevalence of the main diseases that drag the average lifespan down: diabetes, hypertension, cholesterol, they don't smoke -> their cardiovascular and pulmonary health are much higher. Those higher e and ne levels I wouldn't say are significant, if they were you'd see these athletes eventually develop heart failure and other diseases at higher rates (and I don't mean athletes that die from cocaine/stimulant induced heart attacks or who had unknown congenital anomalies). It's true also that some athletes can be debilitated by overtraining and higher cortisol levels, but this is rare and happens in highly trained Olympic athletes. High level exercise is a pretty significant protector against almost every side effect from glucocorticoids (diabetes, hypertension, osteoporosis), especially slightly above average levels for only part of the persons lifespan (say from entering junior leagues to the end of his NHL career). I mean athletes aren't getting compression fractures, diabetes, fat gains or seizures left and right. I've seen studies confirming a higher lifespan, but the conclusion was the lower cardiovascular risk, which makes sense since with cancer, it's the biggest killer.

As far steroids, in hockey, it would make sense to get to their optimal playing weight and strength levels. But I don't see them cycling outside of the off-season or for more than a limited amount of years. Test makes sense, but at the quality they get, and with the health support surrounding them, the deleterious effects probably aren't that bad long term. About EPO, unlike mentionned previously, poor control can be very lethal (blood clots).

The one thing athletes are really predisposed to is osteoarthritis due to their injuries.

What I find is a shame in drugs in general is some people just plain respond better to them. And some athletes just plain have a better drug regimen. So the playing field isn't leveled if everyone is taking them. But then again, some people would say the playing field wasn't level the minute we're born since some people are just born with more talent.

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02-03-2013, 12:02 PM
  #274
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[QUOTE=PricePkPatch;58956799]If that kid ever manage to channel that inner fire, sieve and refine it; he'll be a great captain.

Such an inner fire, when harnessed, is what true leaders are all about. When left unchecked, they just burn people the wrong way.

I hope Therrien is out to help Subban harness it, not snuff out the flame[/QUOTE]

Very well said, and I stand (actaually I am sitting and drunk, while hoping the feed for the game works) corrected and humbled on many fronts. The rest is true.

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02-03-2013, 01:33 PM
  #275
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Professional athletes are well adapted to higher training stress. Their schedule allows for rest, recovery and they have health professionals at their disposal. They also benefit from a long off-season year to year and an early retirement. They have much lower prevalence of the main diseases that drag the average lifespan down: diabetes, hypertension, cholesterol, they don't smoke -> their cardiovascular and pulmonary health are much higher. Those higher e and ne levels I wouldn't say are significant, if they were you'd see these athletes eventually develop heart failure and other diseases at higher rates (and I don't mean athletes that die from cocaine/stimulant induced heart attacks or who had unknown congenital anomalies). It's true also that some athletes can be debilitated by overtraining and higher cortisol levels, but this is rare and happens in highly trained Olympic athletes. High level exercise is a pretty significant protector against almost every side effect from glucocorticoids (diabetes, hypertension, osteoporosis), especially slightly above average levels for only part of the persons lifespan (say from entering junior leagues to the end of his NHL career). I mean athletes aren't getting compression fractures, diabetes, fat gains or seizures left and right. I've seen studies confirming a higher lifespan, but the conclusion was the lower cardiovascular risk, which makes sense since with cancer, it's the biggest killer.

As far steroids, in hockey, it would make sense to get to their optimal playing weight and strength levels. But I don't see them cycling outside of the off-season or for more than a limited amount of years. Test makes sense, but at the quality they get, and with the health support surrounding them, the deleterious effects probably aren't that bad long term. About EPO, unlike mentionned previously, poor control can be very lethal (blood clots).

The one thing athletes are really predisposed to is osteoarthritis due to their injuries.

What I find is a shame in drugs in general is some people just plain respond better to them. And some athletes just plain have a better drug regimen. So the playing field isn't leveled if everyone is taking them. But then again, some people would say the playing field wasn't level the minute we're born since some people are just born with more talent.
False. Regular exercise does that, that's what the studies show. Excessive exercise has adverse effects because of a higher constant level of stress hormone release throughout adult life. One of the foremost stress experts stresses the point that not enough exercise is bad, but too much can be just as bad (R. Sapolsky).

And the last part about being 'born' with more talent is just ridiculous. Genetic predispositions are nothing without environmental cues, and environmental cues do not need genetic predisposition to effect genetic change. Sure some are advantaged by the environment of their formative years, and that starts the moment mythosis starts.

The net results in allostatic imbalance will happen to anyone no matter their physical development, no matter if their genetic predispositions gives them a lower basal point for stress hormone regulation. Sure it will take more time, but that's the whole point about specifying about excessive exercise, rare are cases were imbalance won't occur in older age. And that's mainly because of the hippocampus regulating glucocorticoid release. The more it intakes glucocorticoids, the more it will shrink, lose memory, and lose it's ability to regulate the activation of the parasympathetic side of the nervous system (the vicious circle I talked about), keeping the body in a higher rate of dosage, continuing the decline of regulation and deterioration of the hippocampus.

Sure there are drug regiments to regulate the allostatic load, but the hippocampus then will get used to a different set of regulation and said person will be stuck on the drug regiment to regulate the nervous system which can cause further imbalance.

That's what the studies show.

People who live to be 100 years old weren't high level professional athletes in their adults years.

EDIT: Here's a quick reference from Robert Sapolsky's Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers:

P.122 (in general reference to higher levels of glucocorticoids) "Males who do extreme amount of exercise, such as professional soccer players and runners who cover 40 to 50 miles a week, have less LHRH, LH (luteinizing hormone), and testosterone in their circulation, smaller testes, less functional sperm. They also have higher levels of glucocorticoids in their bloodstreams, even in the absence of stress."

P.123 "This brings a broader issue important to our era of lookin' good. Obviously, if you don't exercise at all, it is not good for you. Exercise improves your health. And a lot of exercise improves your health a lot. But that doesn't mean insanely large amount of exercise are insanely good for your body. At some point, too much begins to damage various physiological systems. Everything in physiology follows the rule that too much can be as bad as too little. There are optimal points of allostatic balance. For example, while a moderate amount of exercise generally increases bone mass, thirty-year old athletes who run 40 to 50 miles a week can wind up with decalcified bones, decreased bone mass, increased risk of stress fracture and scoliosis (sideways curvature of the spine), their skeletons look like those of seventy-year-olds."

Since the effects of high levels of glucocorticoids are wide and varied, I suggest you read the book for yourself. And no, it doesn't help avoiding cancer either. It is actually one of the many catalysts.

Also, with time, too much exercise in one lifetime will tend to tear up blood vessels, reduce elasticity and dilatation and thus create cardiovascular risk. It's simple wear and tear.


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