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This Philadelphia Team Is Really Bad

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:50 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Schenn has been playing well - perhaps the best defender on the team.
From the games I've watched it's been Grossman. More than the defensemen though it seems like the forwards are doing nothing in the dzone. Couts looks pedestrian, Giroux invisible, and weak ass backchecking. Also in the Tampa game they were awful clearing the front of the net.

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01-30-2013, 09:50 AM
  #102
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How is this possible? They have the great Brayden Schenn?

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01-30-2013, 10:07 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
The top PP unit is the same as last year. Kimmon Timonen is the only defenseman on the top PP and he certainly can control the play. Your theory isn't really sound.
The power-play was a part of what I was saying about Philly's D, but it's worth examining further.

Philly's PP is currently ranked 23rd in the league at a very poor 13.5%.

Last year they were 6th in the league in PP -- 19.7%.

6.2% may not sound like a huge drop, but it IS a big deal for a team that has the most PP opportunities in the league. 335 last year, 37 so far this year -- both #1. That 6.2% drop would've lost the Flyers 21 goals in 2011/12. Their PP scored 66 goals last year, #1 in the league. If it's not clicking this year, it'll end up costing the Flyers more games than other teams because their PP happens more often than on other teams.

I know Hartnell's absence is a part of this issue, but when a PP is in trouble it's logical to look at the defense, even if the answer is nothing more complicated than just having a bad week.

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01-30-2013, 10:16 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadhouseOnMadison View Post
Exactly. Philly is too good of a team to believe this thread is anything more than blowing off steam. They'll be fine.
I don't think it will be that easy in the Atlantic Division. The Devils, Rangers, and Pens area all better teams; arguably the Isles too the way the season has gone so far.

The Flyers D is overpaid, oversized, and slow... beyond their top line not much production per $. Their Cap situation could be ugly in a year or two.

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01-30-2013, 10:29 AM
  #105
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The forwards can't even receive a pass properly without completely ****ing up yet everyone is quick to blame the transition game. I put the blame squarely on the offense. They can't score, they don't backcheck and can't take a pass to save their lives. How about that 5 on 3 yesterday...pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass...all they needed was a joint to get the puff in there.

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01-30-2013, 11:14 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
The power-play was a part of what I was saying about Philly's D, but it's worth examining further.

Philly's PP is currently ranked 23rd in the league at a very poor 13.5%.

Last year they were 6th in the league in PP -- 19.7%.

6.2% may not sound like a huge drop, but it IS a big deal for a team that has the most PP opportunities in the league. 335 last year, 37 so far this year -- both #1. That 6.2% drop would've lost the Flyers 21 goals in 2011/12. Their PP scored 66 goals last year, #1 in the league. If it's not clicking this year, it'll end up costing the Flyers more games than other teams because their PP happens more often than on other teams.

I know Hartnell's absence is a part of this issue, but when a PP is in trouble it's logical to look at the defense, even if the answer is nothing more complicated than just having a bad week.
People need to re-read this. ^^^
Add to that a PK that is ranked #29 out of 30. That is a recipe for disaster.
And they have their top line winger hurt in Hartnell
And they have a top 4- d-man hurt in Grossman
And they lost Jagr and Carle in the off season.
Their top 2 lines currently has 1 player over 25...not much experience.
And look at their schedule...very hard. Only 2 home games so far, plus have played teams they struggle against-Pitt, NJD, NYRx2, TB...other 2 games were to Buffalo where miller played well and Florida which was like shinny hockey.
By the end of Feb, Philly will know where they are at. 8 home games, 7 road. Only 3 divisional games and 1 is VS the Islanders. And they play teams that they usully beat. I figure they "should" go 10-5. If they end up going 6-9 or something, then they are done. February is Philly's moving month. Their PK and PP must get better for sure though!!

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01-30-2013, 11:26 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
People need to re-read this. ^^^
Add to that a PK that is ranked #29 out of 30. That is a recipe for disaster.
And they have their top line winger hurt in Hartnell
And they have a top 4- d-man hurt in Grossman
And they lost Jagr and Carle in the off season.
Their top 2 lines currently has 1 player over 25...not much experience.
And look at their schedule...very hard. Only 2 home games so far, plus have played teams they struggle against-Pitt, NJD, NYRx2, TB...other 2 games were to Buffalo where miller played well and Florida which was like shinny hockey.
By the end of Feb, Philly will know where they are at. 8 home games, 7 road. Only 3 divisional games and 1 is VS the Islanders. And they play teams that they usully beat. I figure they "should" go 10-5. If they end up going 6-9 or something, then they are done. February is Philly's moving month. Their PK and PP must get better for sure though!!
LOL right...so as long as they continue to beat the powder puffs of the league they'll be fine. Instead of improving and beating teams like TB and NYR, you're making the excuse that they lose to them anyway any other year? To add, we have pretty good record against the Pens and Devils the last few years.

Grossman isn't hurt...he is playing so any nagging injuries he might have doesn't matter at this point. It's also not about who they are losing to but how they are losing. They just look awful.

Top two lines while young still have plenty of experience.

Voracek - 5 years
Giroux - 5 years
Simmonds - 5 years
Briere - 10+ years

I don't know how long a player has to be in the league to be considered a veteran but im pretty sure those guys are there.

I still think it's a system issue. If you don't have the horses you better adapt or you'll be in this exact situation.

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01-30-2013, 11:59 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
The power-play was a part of what I was saying about Philly's D, but it's worth examining further.

Philly's PP is currently ranked 23rd in the league at a very poor 13.5%.

Last year they were 6th in the league in PP -- 19.7%.

6.2% may not sound like a huge drop, but it IS a big deal for a team that has the most PP opportunities in the league. 335 last year, 37 so far this year -- both #1. That 6.2% drop would've lost the Flyers 21 goals in 2011/12. Their PP scored 66 goals last year, #1 in the league. If it's not clicking this year, it'll end up costing the Flyers more games than other teams because their PP happens more often than on other teams.

I know Hartnell's absence is a part of this issue, but when a PP is in trouble it's logical to look at the defense, even if the answer is nothing more complicated than just having a bad week.
I 100% agree with you.

My post was replying to the notion that the PP was broke because they didn't have any defensemen who could control the play. Since the 1st PP is the same (well not now since Hartnell is out), that theory was flawed.

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:49 PM
  #109
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Our woes are pretty simple and really obvious. No puck-moving d-men or offensive threats on the back-end, practically our entire forward core is horrible in every aspect of the game this season, and our special teams percentages are beyond god awful.

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01-30-2013, 12:51 PM
  #110
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Guys, it's GrossmanN. Two "n"s in there.

The bad transition game still doesn't explain why they're piss poor in the offensive zone when they do get in there nor why their PK is so bad. I obviously want them to turn it around but B. Schenn and Couturier are going to need to start stepping it up, and Voracek is going to need to read a Wiki article on what hockey is and how to play it.

Couturier looks really slow out there too. I'm not sure what's going on with him. I also think coaching has been a problem. They just come out flat every single game, and injuries don't explain that. They have no system on the PP, nor a system that I can really think of at all. I seriously think that when they call a timeout before a PP that Berube is just showing them a picture of a hockey net.

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01-30-2013, 12:53 PM
  #111
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They're not that bad, they're just not that good.

Giroux is their one standout talent, and he's sucked so far, but that won't last.

But other than him, this philly team doesn't have a lot of strengths. Their great scoring depth from last year is now just ok/good scoring depth this year, with a glaring lack of offense from the blueline. Giroux/Briere/Hartnell is a good not great top-3, Read/Voracek/Simmonds is a good not great 2nd-3, and schenn/couts are the only offensive potential they have outside their top-6 and neither looks ready to contribute much yet. And their lack of offensive dmen is killer, especially on the PP.

They also don't have a great defensive set of forwards or defensemen (and they certainly don't play a defensive style), and their goalie is just "good", not "great".

This team definitely doesn't suck, but I see them more as a bubble team than a contender.

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01-30-2013, 01:00 PM
  #112
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It's just Giroux starting slow. Once he gets going and starts creating offense he is good enough to be a one or two goal difference per game.

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01-30-2013, 01:16 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Our woes are pretty simple and really obvious. No puck-moving d-men or offensive threats on the back-end, practically our entire forward core is horrible in every aspect of the game this season, and our special teams percentages are beyond god awful.
I agree with the bolded 100% and I don't think people realize what an effect it's having on the offense. They don't have any threat back there to draw any attention than Timonen who is a pass first or shoot for a deflection kind of guy. On the PK teams are able to play a tighter box and collapse in front of the net and grab the rebounds instead of staying out high to prevent shots from the top of the point. What's the point of having good hands and big bodies in front of the net if shots never get through? The forwards collapse down low and either block the shots or the D don't shoot because they have no lane. When the try to cycle down low ES or even on the PP teams have no problem putting on pressure because they know they dont have a threat from the point if they lose a battle.

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01-30-2013, 02:15 PM
  #114
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they are not making the playoffs this year

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01-30-2013, 02:24 PM
  #115
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2:04 nice back-check by captain Giroux.

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01-30-2013, 02:27 PM
  #116
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its the lockout. laviolette runs an attack system its bascily get the puck and go the other way. encouraging that kind of improvisation lets talented players showcase themselves and if theyre putting in a professional level of effort succeed. guys like voracek and schenn put in the effort but werent depended on to lead the charge last year. this year they are and without a full training camp to learn the plays they dont know em. with the hectic schedule games have been the only practice these guys had. they look rough and they look young. giroux as a first year captain is trying to do everything and when he isnt hes getting frustrated.

ill be sure laviolette has stopped treating this like preseason when he ices a continuous lineup 3 games in a row. untill then im taking the long view on things. though the addition af a veteran pmd would be nice i dont see the necessity of making a roster move pending a coaching change

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01-30-2013, 02:35 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHI Flyers10 View Post
They have one of the worst power plays I've ever seen. It was pretty damn good last year but the 5-on-3 was the worst one I've ever seen from them. They just did perimeter passing the entire time and didn't shoot it. The Rangers defenders didn't even have to do anything except stand there. I don't know if that's a coaching problem or what. I like Lavi but I don't know how much longer he's going to be kept around. The slow start problem existed when Stevens was still the coach though so I really don't know where the blame goes.
That sounds like the Hawks's powder play from last year. I hate it when people yell "shoot" but man, not taking a single shot on a several consecutive power plays shouldn't happen. So frustrating to watch.

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01-30-2013, 02:36 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Van Buren Boy View Post
LOL right...so as long as they continue to beat the powder puffs of the league they'll be fine. Instead of improving and beating teams like TB and NYR, you're making the excuse that they lose to them anyway any other year? To add, we have pretty good record against the Pens and Devils the last few years.

Grossman isn't hurt...he is playing so any nagging injuries he might have doesn't matter at this point. It's also not about who they are losing to but how they are losing. They just look awful.

Top two lines while young still have plenty of experience.

Voracek - 5 years
Giroux - 5 years
Simmonds - 5 years
Briere - 10+ years

I don't know how long a player has to be in the league to be considered a veteran but im pretty sure those guys are there.

I still think it's a system issue. If you don't have the horses you better adapt or you'll be in this exact situation.
sorry...meant to say Mezeros...not Grossmann. And looking at the 4 you listed with experience. 3 of them have less than 2 years as top 2 line players. And the other players they count on for points are Schenn, Couts and Read...all with less than 2 years of NHL experience. They point being that with the 3 listed above(not Briere) and the other 3 I listed, they are still a very young team as far as their scorers go.

And I mentioned the schedule for the fact that if Philly has a bad Feb, then they are a bad team. If they have a 10-5 Feb, then they are a #6-10 seed. Either way, it is clear to everyone including Holmgrem, that a #1 D-Man is needed. Much like other mediocre teams. How to get one that can grow with this team will be the biggest and most important deal Holmgen will do.

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Old
01-30-2013, 02:40 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by mikitas donut View Post
That sounds like the Hawks's powder play from last year. I hate it when people yell "shoot" but man, not taking a single shot on a several consecutive power plays shouldn't happen. So frustrating to watch.
I don't know if it was because we were playing lundqvist last night or what but our guys were going for the extra passes all night. I noticed a couple of times last night our guys were in good position for a shot but instead opted for a pass.

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01-30-2013, 02:44 PM
  #120
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and remember...comparing this years team to the one we started last year with, we have:
Top line LW->Hartnell hurt
Top line RW Jagr->gone to FA
Top line D-Men->Pronger and Carle-hurt and gone to FA.

Philly is an average to below ag=verage team right now. And who would of thought that it would be that way with Bryz playing so good!

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Old
01-30-2013, 02:46 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post


2:04 nice back-check by captain Giroux.


haha thought it was Getzlaf

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01-30-2013, 02:52 PM
  #122
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That was a bad backcheck but he made up for it last night by saving a goal on one late in the game.

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01-30-2013, 02:58 PM
  #123
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But I though Brayden Schenn was to carry the offense since he's "so good" you know, like how Kadri is doing with the Leafs.

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01-30-2013, 03:02 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I don't know if it was because we were playing lundqvist last night or what but our guys were going for the extra passes all night. I noticed a couple of times last night our guys were in good position for a shot but instead opted for a pass.
Yeah, that is classic over-thinking there. If there's a lane, they should just take the shot and crash the net.

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01-30-2013, 03:04 PM
  #125
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But I though Brayden Schenn was to carry the offense since he's "so good" you know, like how Kadri is doing with the Leafs.
Where are people getting this ignorance? I keep seeing it in the thread but I've never seen any Flyers fans deeming him as this savior like you and several others seem to be mocking.

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