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Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Isles - YIKES

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:35 PM
  #251
KIRK
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Originally Posted by SidGenoMario View Post
Lighten up, guys. The good thing about having that many defensive prospects is that there WILL be trades. How quickly things can go from "this team is special" to firing Shero..
It depends upon how Shero reacts to this. If he fiddles, as expected, then 'more quickly than one might think' could be the answer.

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01-29-2013, 11:36 PM
  #252
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Whether we like it or not, this one is going to be written down by management as terrible effort against a supposedly poor team.

It might have put Bylsma on notice if he wasn't already, but it is going to take a genuine losing streak before Shero cans him.

Not that I wouldn't be in favor of doing it now if Shero could find a good candidate, but short season or not, 6 games in will be too early for him to pull the trigger.

Mtl.Pen; yes there are roster issues on the team, but for the vast majority, these players have also been part of playing tremendous hockey for us (in spurts if not for long stretches). We have a few stars and then we have lots of role players who can perform well within a well oiled system. When that system fails or plain isn't there, then their lack of innate skill shines through. With the salary invested in super stars, we can never have skill players throughout the lineup, and in any case we were just beaten badly by a team that certainly has less skill than we do in pretty much every area. They do have structure though.... and the players have desire.

The only thing I really agree with you on is that Fleury is massively overrated by a lot of people and has been forever. As always, I would be completely OK with trading him. More so now when we have Vokoun and thus 1½ season with quality net-minding even if Fleury is traded.
Cut Ulfies ties with Modo and bring him in.

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01-29-2013, 11:36 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by H382 View Post
Sorry, I don't buy into the "take Crosby and Malkin out" and we have an AHL team. As true as that may be, no other team in the league has a Crosby AND Malkin. It's not like we have no one outside of those two. There is Neal. Kunitz is definitely NHL caliber. Dupuis makes up for talent with effort. We have plenty of bottom 6 guys to fill the needed roles there as well. There are plenty of teams in this league that are doing more with less. It's not a talent thing. It's either a lack of effort, or a lack of coaching, or both. Could they use another winger and/or d-man, sure. Most teams could. But we are just performing WAY WAY below what should be considered acceptable.
Dupuis makes up for it in effort?? No, TK and Vitale make up for it in effort playing in the bottom 6. Top 6 is no place for, "well he tries hard and skates fast so let's go with him." Kunitz is shot, a shell of his former self, which was always overrated in the first place. The top 6 forwards are players that have actual hockey skill and hockey sense.

People need to realize we are really not a talented team, we just have a couple super talented players. And from time to time because of that, we'll win regular season games 7-1 over teams like the Islanders and the Panthers. And when Dupuis or Kunitz scores the 6th in that game on an unreal play from Geno, all is good. Well, all is not.

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01-29-2013, 11:38 PM
  #254
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Old
01-29-2013, 11:38 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
Take Kane and Toews of the Hawks and all you have is Hossa. Take Thornton and Marleu of the Sharks and what`s Pavelski gonna do.

There is a reason this team keeps Crosby and Malkin around and allocates that much cap space to them. It doesn´t make them a team that waltzes to the Cup, but it sure should make them a team able to score agaisnt the Islanders. Sorry, but while I see where you are coming from this is an underachieving team right now.
I see what you mean.

Sharp, Bolland, Keith, Seabrook. All terrible hockey players...

Lucic, Krejci, Seguin, Horton, Bergeron, Marchand, Peverley...

Are people ****ing kidding me with this stuff?

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01-29-2013, 11:41 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I see what you mean.

Sharp, Bolland, Keith, Seabrook. All terrible hockey players...

Lucic, Krejci, Seguin, Horton, Bergeron, Marchand, Peverley...

Are people ****ing kidding me with this stuff?
LOL classic. Love when the board melts down

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:42 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by BrookswasHere44 View Post
And who does he hire?
Stan Savran (why not, he could not do worse)!

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:45 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I see what you mean.

Sharp, Bolland, Keith, Seabrook. All terrible hockey players...

Lucic, Krejci, Seguin, Horton, Bergeron, Marchand, Peverley...

Are people ****ing kidding me with this stuff?
Epic . . .

P.S.: We got (had) Sneep instead of Lucic, so what are you ******** about?

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01-29-2013, 11:45 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Whether we like it or not, this one is going to be written down by management as terrible effort against a supposedly poor team.

It might have put Bylsma on notice if he wasn't already, but it is going to take a genuine losing streak before Shero cans him.

Not that I wouldn't be in favor of doing it now if Shero could find a good candidate, but short season or not, 6 games in will be too early for him to pull the trigger.

Mtl.Pen; yes there are roster issues on the team, but for the vast majority, these players have also been part of playing tremendous hockey for us (in spurts if not for long stretches). We have a few stars and then we have lots of role players who can perform well within a well oiled system. When that system fails or plain isn't there, then their lack of innate skill shines through. With the salary invested in super stars, we can never have skill players throughout the lineup, and in any case we were just beaten badly by a team that certainly has less skill than we do in pretty much every area. They do have structure though.... and the players have desire.

The only thing I really agree with you on is that Fleury is massively overrated by a lot of people and has been forever. As always, I would be completely OK with trading him. More so now when we have Vokoun and thus 1½ season with quality net-minding even if Fleury is traded.
Rip, we can't boast two legit offensive duos, even with a healthy roster. It's beyond criminal.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:45 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
It's ok to doubt DJ, all he does is prove people wrong. I stopped doubting him when he tore up the A.

He just finds ways to produce and I'll never sleep on him again.

Maybe I should say he blows and he will probably end up leading the team in scoring.
I'm not saying he won't develop, but I think he won't shine until he goes somewhere else. He just has no identifiable position on this team. He's a slow skater. He's weak on the puck. His release is subpar. He needs a lot of work because his mind is so damn good when it comes to making smart hockey plays.

I'd love to see him on a weaker depth team because I think he'd have 12-14 minutes a night to really shine and develop his game at the NHL level. He probably tore the AHL up because he wasn't averaging 3 minutes a game or whatever crap he had tonight. Guys like Vitale thrive on those small minutes. Guys like DJ do not.

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I honestly think for some damn reason this team thinks they are entitled. Pisses me off.

I actually immediately thought about that scene when the game was over.

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01-29-2013, 11:46 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
LOL classic. Love when the board melts down
I've observed that whenever the Pens go into a tailspin, it's like the male equivalent of "that time of the month".

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:47 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I see what you mean.

Sharp, Bolland, Keith, Seabrook. All terrible hockey players...

Lucic, Krejci, Seguin, Horton, Bergeron, Marchand, Peverley...

Are people ****ing kidding me with this stuff?
Bolland, really? We are choosing Bolland over Letang right now? That is where we are at?

And what has Boston got to do with ****?

Are you ****ing kidding me with this stuff?

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:48 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
Bolland, really? We are choosing Bolland over Letang right now? That is where we are at?

And what has Boston got to do with ****?

Are you ****ing kidding me with this stuff?
Uh, let's not do a comparison of Chicago's top three defensemen and the Pens top three defensemen. Won't help your cause. Bolland . . . compare him to Sutter.

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01-29-2013, 11:49 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
It's ok to doubt DJ, all he does is prove people wrong. I stopped doubting him when he tore up the A.

He just finds ways to produce and I'll never sleep on him again.

Maybe I should say he blows and he will probably end up leading the team in scoring.
Yeah, I'm with this guy.

It's not wrong to say DJ doesn't have a lot of NHL assets (strength, speed, shot), but sometimes guys like that who have great brains can carve out careers for themselves.

DJ's brain is pretty great for a guy as unheralded as he.

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01-29-2013, 11:49 PM
  #265
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I didn't realize that we had drafted Moulson back in the day.

In retrospect, ****.

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01-29-2013, 11:50 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Epic . . .

P.S.: We got (had) Sneep instead of Lucic, so what are you ******** about?
I purposely left out Chara, Hamilton and Seidenberg, because then I would have simply been performing the message board version of an atomic wedgie.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:50 PM
  #267
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It does help remember that the Rangers have the same record right now and the Flyers are 2 - 5. Despite that, the Pens looked like crap today.

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01-29-2013, 11:52 PM
  #268
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"Think you can win on talent alone? Gentlemen, you don't HAVE enough talent to win on talen alone. Again".

They need to put this on repeat in a set of head phones while they sleep.

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01-29-2013, 11:52 PM
  #269
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I purposely left out Chara, Hamilton and Seidenberg, because then I would have simply been performing the message board version of an atomic wedgie.
LOL . . .

FYI, I hope you know that I'm with you on Shero. I just see Bylsma as part of a problem that goes beyond personnel. I don't think Sid and Geno are buying anymore, and it's one of those things where whatever he tries out of desperation isn't going to work. There was a chance to fix it, but that was with a half dozen games or so left in last season.

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01-29-2013, 11:52 PM
  #270
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I didn't realize that we had drafted Moulson back in the day.

In retrospect, ****.
An unfortunate casualty of the regime change. We lost his rights without Shero knowing a damn thing about him...though that falls on the scouts, since they didn't tell him to sign him.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:53 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by H382 View Post
"Think you can win on talent alone? Gentlemen, you don't HAVE enough talent to win on talen alone. Again".

They need to put this on repeat in a set of head phones while they sleep.
1. Great scene.

2. Herb Brooks forgot more about tactics, bench management, and motivation in a day than Bylsma will ever know.

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01-29-2013, 11:53 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
I've observed that whenever the Pens go into a tailspin, it's like the male equivalent of "that time of the month".
Do you pick and choose when to be holier than thou? Are you not the same guy who has a million melt downs over Jordan Staal? Come on, now Cassius. That's a tiring gimmick.

We've had our days of good solid arguments, but make a case or not. It's that simple. A lot of great discussion around here about what should happen. If you want to explain what DB does so well - I'm all ears... Go on.

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01-29-2013, 11:53 PM
  #273
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Uh, let's not do a comparison of Chicago's top three defensemen and the Pens top three defensemen. Won't help your cause. Bolland . . . compare him to Sutter.
Thanks for making my point.

Anyone who takes shots at Bolland's offensive abilities, even in his primary role as a shutdown/agitator, hasn't watched a single Blackhawks game in years.

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01-29-2013, 11:54 PM
  #274
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Rip, we can't boast two legit offensive duos, even with a healthy roster. It's beyond criminal.
Malkin Neal is that.
Sid Kunitz has been that since Kunitz arrived and Duper for the little credit I usually give him has probably been our most consistent forward so far.
Kunitz having a pathetic start to the season does not mean he should not still be considered a top6 player, albeit one who is struggling.

On paper, you take our third line of Cooke Sutter Kennedy over most any third line in the league. 4th line is OK'is, at least it rarely ever hurts us.

A player or two more with the prerequisite skill to play with Sid/Geno would obviously help, and I was furious, as you, when Shero did not manage to add a forward in the offseason. If nothing else at least one who could replace Sullivan and make sure we didn't go back to the horror PP of 2011-2012.
But we are not far enough off having a full deck of players that you can ignore how uniquely pathetic our structure look. These guys are NHL players. They don't make a million turnovers and errant passes because they cannot manage the puck at all.

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01-29-2013, 11:54 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Do you pick and choose when to be holier than thou? Are you not the same guy who has a million melt downs over Jordan Staal? Come on, now Cassius. That's a tiring gimmick.

We've had our days of good solid arguments, but make a case or not. It's that simple. A lot of great discussion around here about what should happen. If you want to explain what DB does so well - I'm all ears... Go on.
Crickets say 'hi'.

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