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01-29-2013, 11:56 PM
  #276
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I'm not saying he won't develop, but I think he won't shine until he goes somewhere else. He just has no identifiable position on this team. He's a slow skater. He's weak on the puck. His release is subpar. He needs a lot of work because his mind is so damn good when it comes to making smart hockey plays.

I'd love to see him on a weaker depth team because I think he'd have 12-14 minutes a night to really shine and develop his game at the NHL level. He probably tore the AHL up because he wasn't averaging 3 minutes a game or whatever crap he had tonight. Guys like Vitale thrive on those small minutes. Guys like DJ do not.
Everything you just assessed of Jeffrey, is what I said about him and he just kept producing. He's just... Crafty. Like a mental midget's Ron Francis.

He looked the best of anyone with Malkin and Neal so far. It's really all we got boss.

DB will probably bench him or put Craig Adams on their line Thursday, but whatever.

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01-29-2013, 11:56 PM
  #277
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An unfortunate casualty of the regime change. We lost his rights without Shero knowing a damn thing about him...though that falls on the scouts, since they didn't tell him to sign him.
I think it was Justin Bourne wrote some article about how Moulson was at a regional tryout team with him and got cut from the team for a half-hearted effort in a facewashing drill (yes, a facewashing drill) despite scoring a hattrick in the scrimmage. He might just be the type of guy development people such as scouts and junior coaches hate for some reason.

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01-29-2013, 11:57 PM
  #278
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I understand why everybody is panicking that the sky is falling and calling for Bylsma's head on a spike, the fact of the matter is that this team hasn't played together in 6 months. There are going to be games where timing is off, the team looks to lack chemistry, and discipline is suspect.

I think everybody needs to take a big deep breath. If the ship is still sinking by game 15, maybe we can talk about firing Disco (which IMO aint happening until off season if at all).


Last edited by Duck Paddy: 01-30-2013 at 12:05 AM.
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01-29-2013, 11:57 PM
  #279
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I felt as if the game was played extremely one sided. Brutal defense by the pens, and am I the I the ony one noticing malkins horrible turnovers and puck handling

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01-29-2013, 11:59 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Everything you just assessed of Jeffrey, is what I said about him and he just kept producing. He's just... Crafty. Like a mental midget's Ron Francis.

He looked the best of anyone with Malkin and Neal so far. It's really all we got boss.

DB will probably bench him or put Craig Adams on their line Thursday, but whatever.
Adams did have a couple shifts with Sid tonight and I cannot fathom why. It was in place of Dupers, too. I couldn't really understand what was going on. The juggling act of line changes is weird. It's okay to let a line play with each other all game. I don't think DJ saw his first shift until 10 minutes into the 1st period.

Players don't like being moved around. They like a normal shift with linemates. On the bench there is a lot of communication on what to do next time. If you never get to go out there and do it, because of line juggling, it doesn't help.

I understand certain situations putting Neal/Sid/Geno together to apply pressure, but they can double shift again. In fact, they'll probably love it. Once we go with a big line, we have like 10 shifts of mixed/matched mates. It makes no sense.

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01-29-2013, 11:59 PM
  #281
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Do you pick and choose when to be holier than thou? Are you not the same guy who has a million melt downs over Jordan Staal? Come on, now Cassius. That's a tiring gimmick.

We've had our days of good solid arguments, but make a case or not. It's that simple. A lot of great discussion around here about what should happen. If you want to explain what DB does so well - I'm all ears... Go on.
By the way, here's the case for Bylsma:

1. He's a good guy, and the players seem to like him (as if that should matter in a league where Scotty Bowman's players hated him every day of the year except the one that mattered most).

2. He's a good young coach and he's learning (as if we're supposed to forget how long the learning curve has been and that, at this point, a team with Sid and Geno deserves a coach worthy of their talents, not a coach who still seems to need a lot of on the job training, if not more than three and a half years ago).

3. Patience . . . it's only 6 games (as if the Pens haven't been on a 25 game run of this ****, where you've got ups and downs but the trend line is down, and as if none of the issues date back three years).

4. Excuses . . . cup hangover, Sid and Geno out, Sid back from long absence, no preseason, bad personnel mix (as if no other team in the league has dealt with issues or personnel mixes that need to be improved).

You know, we've been making the Therrien comparison. Well, here's another: In January 2009, he would have KILLED to have the type of personnel that Bylsma has at his disposal now.

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01-30-2013, 12:00 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Duster93 View Post
I felt as if the game was played extremely one sided. Brutal defense by the pens, and am I the I the ony one noticing malkins horrible turnovers and puck handling
That's because it was . . .

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01-30-2013, 12:00 AM
  #283
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I'm not going to ***** about the team tonight.

I think Despres-Letang looks like a really good pair for us. If they keep playing decent hockey, I would keep them as a pair and put Niskanen on the 3rd pair with Engelland. Now not full time, but have Despres and Niskanen alternate between the 1st and 3rd D pair.

I wouldn't sweat the struggles, we can sit here and point the finger at Dan Byslam, but realistically, how much does he have to work with? It's a shortened season, they had a week of training camp, no preseason games.

Do you guys notice a trend? What teams are struggling? The teams who made big changes. NYR subtracts Dubinsky, Anisimov, Fedotenko and adds Nash, Pyatt and Asham. We subtract Sullivan, Asham, Michalek, Staal and Johnson, and add Glass, Sutter, Vokoun, Despres, Tangradi and Bortuzzo. Philly subtracts JVR, Jagr, Carle and Bobrovsky and added Fedotenko, L. Schenn, Knuble, and Leighton.

My point is, these teams were solid last year and now are 3-3 or worse, the new players need more time to get comfortable with the team, practice, gain chemistry, etc. Now if you look at the successful teams like Boston, Chicago and San Jose, what big changes have they madE? None, they have a similar team and know each other well.

No excuse for poor play, but I don't think major changes need to be made with the shortened season, I know some of you disagree, but that's my opinion. Shero could make some moves during the season, or in the off season to improve the team. We have prospects getting experience and they could make the team (like Dumoulin, Bennett, etc.) Give Bylsma that team at next year's training camp, one with a potentially improved roster with our young prospects and/or free agent signings. Then give him the next season.

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01-30-2013, 12:01 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Duster93 View Post
I felt as if the game was played extremely one sided. Brutal defense by the pens, and am I the I the ony one noticing malkins horrible turnovers and puck handling
It's bad. Am I the only one to credit this to the KHL? I think Geno is used to bigger ice, thinking he can do a lot more with space, and passes. It has to be the rink size, because I've never seen him this "annoying before". We all know he's excellent. FFS he was MVP last year. Y'know.

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01-30-2013, 12:01 AM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Paddy View Post
I understand why everybody is panicking that the sky is falling and calling for Bylsma's head on a spike, the fact of the matter is that this team hasn't played together in 6 months. There are going to be games where timing is off, the team looks to lack chemistry, and disciple is suspect.

I think everybody needs to take a big deep breath. If the ship is still sinking by game 15, maybe we can talk about firing Disco (which IMO aint happening until off season if at all).
I don't buy that. The benefit this team had going into the season is that Geno/Neal developed chemistry, our system hasn't changed, Sid and his linemates had chemistry, too. We were one of the few teams that probably didn't need a long camp like NYR did because of their big acquisition of Nash. These players should have been on the same page.

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01-30-2013, 12:01 AM
  #286
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I know DB tryed a million different lines tonight did anybody see him use malkin/neal/kunitz or sid/neal on a line tonight?

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01-30-2013, 12:02 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
I'm not going to ***** about the team tonight.

I think Despres-Letang looks like a really good pair for us. If they keep playing decent hockey, I would keep them as a pair and put Niskanen on the 3rd pair with Engelland. Now not full time, but have Despres and Niskanen alternate between the 1st and 3rd D pair.

I wouldn't sweat the struggles, we can sit here and point the finger at Dan Byslam, but realistically, how much does he have to work with? It's a shortened season, they had a week of training camp, no preseason games.

Do you guys notice a trend? What teams are struggling? The teams who made big changes. NYR subtracts Dubinsky, Anisimov, Fedotenko and adds Nash, Pyatt and Asham. We subtract Sullivan, Asham, Michalek, Staal and Johnson, and add Glass, Sutter, Vokoun, Despres, Tangradi and Bortuzzo. Philly subtracts JVR, Jagr, Carle and Bobrovsky and added Fedotenko, L. Schenn, Knuble, and Leighton.

My point is, these teams were solid last year and now are 3-3 or worse, the new players need more time to get comfortable with the team, practice, gain chemistry, etc. Now if you look at the successful teams like Boston, Chicago and San Jose, what big changes have they madE? None, they have a similar team and know each other well.

No excuse for poor play, but I don't think major changes need to be made with the shortened season, I know some of you disagree, but that's my opinion. Shero could make some moves during the season, or in the off season to improve the team. We have prospects getting experience and they could make the team (like Dumoulin, Bennett, etc.) Give Bylsma that team at next year's training camp, one with a potentially improved roster with our young prospects and/or free agent signings. Then give him the next season.
This isn't just poor play. And, not even the biggest Bylsma homers (until you) would call him an automatic to coach next year as you just did.

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01-30-2013, 12:03 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 View Post
I know DB tryed a million different lines tonight did anybody see him use malkin/neal/kunitz or sid/neal on a line tonight?
Or Vitale anywhere near the top six?

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01-30-2013, 12:03 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 View Post
I know DB tryed a million different lines tonight did anybody see him use malkin/neal/kunitz or sid/neal on a line tonight?
Crosby, Neal, & Malkin started the 3rd, but I don't know what else. My head hurts from trying to figure them all out.

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01-30-2013, 12:03 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Do you pick and choose when to be holier than thou? Are you not the same guy who has a million melt downs over Jordan Staal? Come on, now Cassius. That's a tiring gimmick.

We've had our days of good solid arguments, but make a case or not. It's that simple. A lot of great discussion around here about what should happen. If you want to explain what DB does so well - I'm all ears... Go on.
Look - talking about firing DB is just a waste of words right now, as it simply -will not happen-.

So why bother talking about scenarios that are not even remotely plausible? It's completely illogical and is a big waste of time.

If you think Shero is going to fire Bylsma 6 games into the season, I don't know what to tell ya.

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01-30-2013, 12:04 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I don't buy that. The benefit this team had going into the season is that Geno/Neal developed chemistry, our system hasn't changed, Sid and his linemates had chemistry, too. We were one of the few teams that probably didn't need a long camp like NYR did because of their big acquisition of Nash. These players should have been on the same page.
Said it before and will say it again: Look at the roster MT had in his last 25 games. Look at the roster DB has had in the Pens last 25 games. Tell me again (not you, those making the excuse) about the whole 'woe is me for Bylsma's personnel' story.

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01-30-2013, 12:04 AM
  #292
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Times like these I usually come in with some level headed, mock the board mentality of feast and famine and so on....but tonight is not that night.

To put it simply, i hate the way this team plays hockey. HATE it. for the past two seasons i have seen the play become more rigid, less rough, less driven, less emotional (on a night in night out basis...sure there have been a few games here and there). Each year i hope it was a combination of a few parts which were just a touch off, and luck of the draw. I think; "next year we will surely get back on the right track". But this year looks to be another continuation. At no point has the team fired on all cylinders for even 5 minutes of a period.

I think DB's approach has run its course. The team tonight looked like it had no belief in there effort. The power play....can we opt for NFL style decline of penalties? You would almost have to try to be less effective. Your average 4th line would play better.

But i also blame Shero. He has certainly done well in some regards. But our roster now lacks the right components. We have too many professionals and not enough emotion. We need spark plugs and some youth up front. We were down 3-0 and the second....NO FIGHT!?!?! NO HITS?!?!? NO STIRRING THE POT?!?! this is hockey 101, anyone who has played or watched knows how you start to turn a tide. But we dont have any big hitters, stink palmers, **** stirrers. We have a team of Bylsma's, playing hard and working to take mistakes out of the game. Thinking first and playing second. Also we suck at drafting. We are good at getting talent. But we do not do well incorporating into our pro team. IF YOU DRAFT THAT MANY D, YOU CAN'T HAVE SO FEW PLAYING IN THE NHL. Martin's Salary would bring better role players, if not a top 6 player.

We like nisky. But lets say Martin and Nisky are gone and Despres and Bortuzzo dress regularly. Are we suddenly terrible? Martin and Nisky didn't outplay rookies in last year's playoff. THE DRAFT MUST BETTER YOUR NHL SQUAD. This isnt 2000-2001 anymore. Young players have been groomed to play pro systems since age 14. There is a clear trend of young players stepping in and making an impact. We have Craig Adams.

I have found my new montra......WE HAVE CRAIG ADAMS...WE HAVE CRAIG ADAMS!

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01-30-2013, 12:05 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Bag skates can be a red flag to management that the team has quit on the coach. Those and player-only meetings. The one that's not in DB's control has already happened.
there was a player-only meeting?

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01-30-2013, 12:05 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Look - talking about firing DB is just a waste of words right now, as it simply -will not happen-.

So why bother talking about scenarios that are not even remotely plausible? It's completely illogical and is a big waste of time.
I think you see my posts on each page discussing the game, the lines, etc. There is enough discussion going around. I'm waiting for you to make a case FOR Bylsma.

I'll keep waiting... I guess?

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01-30-2013, 12:08 AM
  #295
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Adams did have a couple shifts with Sid tonight and I cannot fathom why. It was in place of Dupers, too. I couldn't really understand what was going on. The juggling act of line changes is weird. It's okay to let a line play with each other all game. I don't think DJ saw his first shift until 10 minutes into the 1st period.

Players don't like being moved around. They like a normal shift with linemates. On the bench there is a lot of communication on what to do next time. If you never get to go out there and do it, because of line juggling, it doesn't help.

I understand certain situations putting Neal/Sid/Geno together to apply pressure, but they can double shift again. In fact, they'll probably love it. Once we go with a big line, we have like 10 shifts of mixed/matched mates. It makes no sense.
I really have no clue. My concern with line juggling is that it creates endless assignment breakdowns.

But he has no one to really use in the top six. So... I dunno bro. Maybe he asks his kid for advice on which grinder to use. Not like it would matter or not.

I've made it quite clear no system works unless you have great team discipline. DB isn't a good disciplinarian or strategist, so I just keep hoping he evolves, but so far....

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01-30-2013, 12:09 AM
  #296
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I think you see my posts on each page discussing the game, the lines, etc. There is enough discussion going around. I'm waiting for you to make a case FOR Bylsma.

I'll keep waiting... I guess?
Haha.. look dude, this is a board where folks share their opinions. So if you're hoping for me to answer all of your questions, you're going to be waiting a long time bro.

I never once volunteered to make a case for Bylsma, I was simply refuting your illogical arguement that he should be fired.

You gotta be patient - it's completely silly to make brash decisions 6 games into the season.

If we miss the playoffs? Sure - Bylsma needs to get axed, but it's still a long season and anything could happen.

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01-30-2013, 12:09 AM
  #297
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Minus - Special teams. I really thought that's where they lost the game. They had two PP opportunities early where they could have set the tone and didn't. They had two PK situations in the 2nd where they could have got stops and stayed in the game but didn't.

+ Despres looked really good out there. He was physical, got shots on the net and moved the puck well.

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01-30-2013, 12:09 AM
  #298
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Originally Posted by Funk311 View Post
Times like these I usually come in with some level headed, mock the board mentality of feast and famine and so on....but tonight is not that night.

To put it simply, i hate the way this team plays hockey. HATE it. for the past two seasons i have seen the play become more rigid, less rough, less driven, less emotional (on a night in night out basis...sure there have been a few games here and there). Each year i hope it was a combination of a few parts which were just a touch off, and luck of the draw. I think; "next year we will surely get back on the right track". But this year looks to be another continuation. At no point has the team fired on all cylinders for even 5 minutes of a period.

I think DB's approach has run its course. The team tonight looked like it had no belief in there effort. The power play....can we opt for NFL style decline of penalties? You would almost have to try to be less effective. Your average 4th line would play better.

But i also blame Shero. He has certainly done well in some regards. But our roster now lacks the right components. We have too many professionals and not enough emotion. We need spark plugs and some youth up front. We were down 3-0 and the second....NO FIGHT!?!?! NO HITS?!?!? NO STIRRING THE POT?!?! this is hockey 101, anyone who has played or watched knows how you start to turn a tide. But we dont have any big hitters, stink palmers, **** stirrers. We have a team of Bylsma's, playing hard and working to take mistakes out of the game. Thinking first and playing second. Also we suck at drafting. We are good at getting talent. But we do not do well incorporating into our pro team. IF YOU DRAFT THAT MANY D, YOU CAN'T HAVE SO FEW PLAYING IN THE NHL. Martin's Salary would bring better role players, if not a top 6 player.

We like nisky. But lets say Martin and Nisky are gone and Despres and Bortuzzo dress regularly. Are we suddenly terrible? Martin and Nisky didn't outplay rookies in last year's playoff. THE DRAFT MUST BETTER YOUR NHL SQUAD. This isnt 2000-2001 anymore. Young players have been groomed to play pro systems since age 14. There is a clear trend of young players stepping in and making an impact. We have Craig Adams.

I have found my new montra......WE HAVE CRAIG ADAMS...WE HAVE CRAIG ADAMS!
Exactly. I'm not going crazy because we didn't have 3488423904 fights, but when you're down, you're supposed to stir some crap up. I went to a game in Youngstown this year where they were down by two or so. They had two fights (one was a big TKO) and they came back and won in OT. Vitale should have been in there punching the damn goalie.

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01-30-2013, 12:10 AM
  #299
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I think you see my posts on each page discussing the game, the lines, etc. There is enough discussion going around. I'm waiting for you to make a case FOR Bylsma.

I'll keep waiting... I guess?
Why are you even wasting your time arguing with him? You know his shtick.

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01-30-2013, 12:10 AM
  #300
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Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
Crosby, Neal, & Malkin started the 3rd, but I don't know what else. My head hurts from trying to figure them all out.
The only time he ever puts sid with neal is with malkin its like hes afraid to try sid/neal for some reason. Same with malkin/neal/kunitz that was the best line in hockey last year and he wouldnt put them together at all this year.

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