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01-30-2013, 10:46 AM
  #476
KIRK
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
You have to point the finger at Bylsma - he isn't motivating the players to put forth their best effort. They looked flat throughout the whole game and seemingly every player from the top down was constantly turning the puck over. That type of performance is unacceptable.

However, Shero deserves some critisism since he's responsible for putting this roster together. It's pretty evident that we have the wrong players and that the talent level isn't there.

Building around fringe defensemen like Michalek/Martin was a very huge strategic blunder. Instead of building your franchise around a piss-poor goalie and soft defensemen, he should have been surrounding his playmakers with talent.

When you have the best 2 players in the league, conventional wisdom would suggest that you should surround them with talent to maximize their productivity. Shero's philosophy to invest in grinders and defense is almost the complete opposite.
NOBODY here is giving Shero a pass. NOBODY is even saying that he's not as big a contributor to this current state as Bylsma.

But, c'mon Cassius, it's just like 4 years ago, even the same record in the last 15, the same trend of surprising good teams and then looking like total **** against others, and Sid and Geno going through the motions half the time. And, honestly, if you cut through all of it-- fault, fair, etc-- if Sid and Geno are going through the motions for Bylsma, a debate about reasons really becomes academic.

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01-30-2013, 10:48 AM
  #477
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Well, if it makes you feel better, it doesn't take much to be Pens top 9 right now, unless of course you're Bennett (or even Vitale, but I digress), which is to say, Grigs would NOT have started the season with the Pens.
All it takes is a 3 at the beginning of your age and get all the top 9 time you want.

And yes, there is no way DB would have kept Grigs up. Why would you when you can have Glass on Malkin's wing?

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01-30-2013, 10:50 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
All it takes is a 3 at the beginning of your age and get all the top 9 time you want.
And, if you don't have a 2, then forget about it.

Question: If Bylsma had been coach in 2006, where would Staal and Letang have started that season? Answer: Same place Morrow did last year (and Despres the year before).

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01-30-2013, 10:50 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
NOBODY here is giving Shero a pass. NOBODY is even saying that he's not as big a contributor to this current state as Bylsma.

But, c'mon Cassius, it's just like 4 years ago, even the same record in the last 15, the same trend of surprising good teams and then looking like total **** against others, and Sid and Geno going through the motions half the time. And, honestly, if you cut through all of it-- fault, fair, etc-- if Sid and Geno are going through the motions for Bylsma, a debate about reasons really becomes academic.
I.. sort of am, I guess. I don't think any of the losses, especially last night, have been because of a lack of talent on the team. Last night was a lack of try.

Are there holes? Suuuuuuuuure, not denying THAT, but this roster isn't totally bereft of talent.

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01-30-2013, 10:52 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Building around fringe defensemen like Michalek/Martin was a very huge strategic blunder.
Worst strategic blunder since Vietnam imo.

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01-30-2013, 10:55 AM
  #481
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The only thing Fleury did wrong, was get caught up and not get over. The down technique with the extended stick, (known as a reverse LV in the goaltending world) is a fine technique. A guy named Johnathan Quick uses it quite frequently. (It seemed to work out OK for him last year)

Look, **** happens sometimes. He didn't get over that time, plain and simple, but we've seen him make that save 100 times.

It's funny how when we lose he is some scrub goalie who has to go. However, when he has a game like he did against Ottawa, all the haters crawl back into their holes and wait for us to lose again so they can play the blame game again. He is like any other player, he's going to have bad moments and bad games. When he does, I tell it like it is, but the haters never can step up and say the opposite when he plays well.

And people wonder why we get labeled a fair weather fan base?
No we must blame someone directly for each and every goal, preferably Fleury. There are no goals where players could've been in a little bit better position or reacted a little quicker. Each goal is 100% on a Dman completely losing his mind or Fleury just sucking complete ass. We need a new goalie. I have no idea who and naturally that means it's a stupid idea, but let's do it anyways!



Last edited by Homeland Security: 01-30-2013 at 12:19 PM. Reason: edited QP
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01-30-2013, 10:56 AM
  #482
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DJ Jazzy still on the 2nd line at practice, Kennedy demoted to the 4th. Problems: solved.

Apropos of nothing - why was Tangradi sat last night? Not saying it made a difference (IT DIDN'T, he's not an impact player), I just don't understand the decision to bench someone who is coming off of their "best game."

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01-30-2013, 10:56 AM
  #483
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TK deserves to be with Cooke & Sutter.

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01-30-2013, 10:58 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
NOBODY here is giving Shero a pass. NOBODY is even saying that he's not as big a contributor to this current state as Bylsma.

But, c'mon Cassius, it's just like 4 years ago, even the same record in the last 15, the same trend of surprising good teams and then looking like total **** against others, and Sid and Geno going through the motions half the time. And, honestly, if you cut through all of it-- fault, fair, etc-- if Sid and Geno are going through the motions for Bylsma, a debate about reasons really becomes academic.
I might be the only one here but i really dont put any of the blame on shero. This team he put on the ice is good enough to be a contender. Theirs a reason vegas had the pens as the favorite for the cup. The team has it flaws it could def use a top 6 winger and a top 4 def but every team has holes. The team isent playing hard they have lost to 3 teams that probaly arent gonna make the playoffs I dont blame shero for any of this its not his job to motivate the players.

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01-30-2013, 11:00 AM
  #485
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
TK deserves to be with Cooke & Sutter.
Yeah who exactly is playing in his place? Glass? He's the winger version of Adams. God help me. At any rate the third line really needs to contribute more this is getting ridiculous.

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01-30-2013, 11:01 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
TK deserves to be with Cooke & Sutter.
Agreed. Kennedy on the 4th line is ridiculous. Why the hell is Tanner Glass getting 3rd line minutes over Tyler Kennedy? Are we trying to demolish any scoring depth that we have? These roster decisions are so freaking odd.

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01-30-2013, 11:03 AM
  #487
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Yeah who exactly is playing in his place? Glass? He's the winger version of Adams. God help me. At any rate the third line really needs to contribute more this is getting ridiculous.
They won't be contributing **** offensively with Tanner "my best season was scoring 16 points" Glass.

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01-30-2013, 11:03 AM
  #488
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
TK deserves to be with Cooke & Sutter.
Bylsma's an idiot. **** him.

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01-30-2013, 11:04 AM
  #489
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They won't be contributing **** offensively with Tanner "my best season was scoring 16 points" Glass.
Perhaps I'm being too hard on him, but I'd prefer if Glass were a healthy scratch against teams that didn't have similar-sized "fighters." He can't pass well, can't skate with the puck... just echoing what others are saying: where is the offense on the 3rd line going to come from?

Also: does this move mean Bylsma is going to work HARDER to get the 4th line out there? Because that'd be swell.

edit:

and a PP change! Malkin to the point/rover position!

Did you know: you're allowed to play with 2 D on the PP?

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01-30-2013, 11:07 AM
  #490
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Perhaps I'm being too hard on him, but I'd prefer if Glass were a healthy scratch against teams that didn't have similar-sized "fighters." He can't pass well, can't skate with the puck... just echoing what others are saying: where is the offense on the 3rd line going to come from?

Also: does this move mean Bylsma is going to work HARDER to get the 4th line out there? Because that'd be swell.

edit:

and a PP change! Malkin to the point/rover position!

Did you know: you're allowed to play with 2 D on the PP?
You are being a bit harsh with Glass but he's certainly not a 3rd line player. He should be on our 4th line with Vitale and Tangradi.

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01-30-2013, 11:10 AM
  #491
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- No heart. The team is getting manhandled by what should be a lesser team, and no one steps up.
- Overall team laziness. The whole team is just floating around waiting for something to happen.
- Lack of details. The little things like a crisp clear of the zone instead of a lazy backhanded attempt.
- Power play. Bring someone in already to consult on this, this crap of passing the perimeter and hoping something happens has been going on for 3 years.

+ I didn't pay so see that game.

I can't blame a single player, this is a whole team effort, or should I say lack there of. Someone better step up in the room fast, and let everyone know it 100% for 60 minutes every game.

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01-30-2013, 11:11 AM
  #492
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So let me get this straight, Malkin and Crosby aren't even supposed to bring the puck up ice with adequate support, even on the PP?
You still didn't answer my question, probably because you can't, but I'll still answer yours.

Malkin and Crosby do skate the puck up ice, even on the PP, However, if Letang is your PP QB, you want him carrying it up the bulk of the time. Now if you want to argue that Tanger shouldn't be the PP QB, that is a different story, and you can have that opinion. I also would like to see someone else QB the PP, and would rather our PP be run off of the wall instead of an umbrella up high. This would mean more Sid or Geno carrying the puck.

I can tell you that DB's system is meant for a lot of support on the breakout, and there is 2-4 options for each puck carrier to have. Unfortunately the players don't always pick the right options. Sid has made some horrible decisions with the puck this year....this isn't because of the system as it is with just not making the right play within the system. I'm not panicking, Sid hasn't played all that much in 2 years, and its just getting back to game speed.

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01-30-2013, 11:13 AM
  #493
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I.. sort of am, I guess. I don't think any of the losses, especially last night, have been because of a lack of talent on the team. Last night was a lack of try.

Are there holes? Suuuuuuuuure, not denying THAT, but this roster isn't totally bereft of talent.
I didn't say it was bereft of talent. And, actually, Bylsma has so much more at his disposal that Therrien did (Satan, Sykora, Feds, Duper for wingers, no Gonchar or Whitney, and Sid with a bad groin). But, that doesn't mean that Shero should escape blame. That's all.

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01-30-2013, 11:13 AM
  #494
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Cooke-Sutter-TK
Glass-Vitale-Adams

Why the **** change that? They were a huge reason why we went 2-0. Double shift Sid and Geno with one another until we make a trade. This line juggling is ****ing ridiculous.

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01-30-2013, 11:15 AM
  #495
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
You still didn't answer my question, probably because you can't, but I'll still answer yours.

Malkin and Crosby do skate the puck up ice, even on the PP, However, if Letang is your PP QB, you want him carrying it up the bulk of the time. Now if you want to argue that Tanger shouldn't be the PP QB, that is a different story, and you can have that opinion. I also would like to see someone else QB the PP, and would rather our PP be run off of the wall instead of an umbrella up high. This would mean more Sid or Geno carrying the puck.

I can tell you that DB's system is meant for a lot of support on the breakout, and there is 2-4 options for each puck carrier to have. Unfortunately the players don't always pick the right options. Sid has made some horrible decisions with the puck this year....this isn't because of the system as it is with just not making the right play within the system. I'm not panicking, Sid hasn't played all that much in 2 years, and its just getting back to game speed.
Who's been adamant about Letang being PP QB since Gonchar left town? Is that Shero's fault, or the fault of the players for not trying?

And, I'm sorry, but ANY COACH who thinks an appropriate breakout on the PP EVER involves Sid or Geno standing at the blueline OR a lack of neutral and offensive zone entry puck support is a joke.

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01-30-2013, 11:17 AM
  #496
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
DJ Jazzy still on the 2nd line at practice, Kennedy demoted to the 4th. Problems: solved.

Apropos of nothing - why was Tangradi sat last night? Not saying it made a difference (IT DIDN'T, he's not an impact player), I just don't understand the decision to bench someone who is coming off of their "best game."
You'd understand it if you thought about it.

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01-30-2013, 11:20 AM
  #497
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Cooke-Sutter-TK
Glass-Vitale-Adams

Why the **** change that? They were a huge reason why we went 2-0. Double shift Sid and Geno with one another until we make a trade. This line juggling is ****ing ridiculous.
I'd prefer it to be Glass-Vitale-Tangradi, but that's just nitpicking at this point since Bylsma can't ever bench his golden boy.

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01-30-2013, 11:25 AM
  #498
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Glass-Vitale-Adams/Tangradi is a SOB line to play against.

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01-30-2013, 11:30 AM
  #499
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Glass-Vitale-Adams/Tangradi is a SOB line to play against.
Actually, I like Glass-Vitale-Adams as an energy line and Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis as a checking line myself, but all of this is arguing at the margins, no?

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01-30-2013, 11:31 AM
  #500
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NOBODY here is giving Shero a pass. NOBODY is even saying that he's not as big a contributor to this current state as Bylsma.
I think Shero is a great GM. The thing that irks me about him is that he seems to go for the safer option 99 times out of 100. Trading for Hossa is pretty much the only true risk he has taken in recent years, and given how the whole Hossa saga ended (him taking less money to go to Detroit is what i recall) it really hasn't encouraged him to take more risks. However, because being so cautious about taking risks he does great job at cap management imo.


In a couple of years we should have our defensive prospects starting to push for the big club and IMO that opens up a window of couple of years where the cheap contracts of the defensemen who makes it and cap most likely raising allows us to have a really stacked team that should be able to truely compete for multiple cups. I just can't see that happening with Bylsma and to a lesser degree Shero running the team.

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