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Old
02-03-2013, 12:50 AM
  #1
RedWingsNow*
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Switch Brunner and Flip

Time for Babcock to switch up his lines.

Give Flip to the Zetterberg line. Zetterberg needs his speed to help on defense.

Give Brunner to Datsyuk. You can't have two guys averaging two shots a game on Datsyuk's wing.

Look at the shot totals
Z-Brunner-Franzen=86
D-Flip-Bert=43

By the way, Abdelkader in his last 13 games, including the playoffs
O goals, 0 Assists -8 17 shots

Not a center.

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02-03-2013, 01:06 AM
  #2
Mantha Poodoo
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I disagree. Put Mule on Datsyuk's line -- Franzen and Bert have worked reasonably well with Dats before. And Flip was doing well with Z last year, Brunner has done well with Z, so putting Flip, Z, and Brunner together should seem a good fit.

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02-03-2013, 01:23 AM
  #3
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I'm a lot more worried about the lack of production in our bottom 6 than switching around guys in the top 6.

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02-03-2013, 02:48 AM
  #4
fimoknete
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honestly. what do you expect from our bottom 6?
they do what they can. give the first 2 lines some time for recovering on the bench. there are no scorer on the lines.
unless u expect old and slow vets suddenly growing quick feet again or untalented(nhl wise) players growing some talent.
i never saw this best nr 3 line of the whole nhl in our team.

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02-03-2013, 08:04 AM
  #5
ricky0034
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bottom six is fine it just needs to be healthy

Helm and Samuelsson have played like 1 game each all year

not only that but Helm being back would move Abdelkader to the wing where he belongs

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02-03-2013, 09:18 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
I disagree. Put Mule on Datsyuk's line -- Franzen and Bert have worked reasonably well with Dats before. And Flip was doing well with Z last year, Brunner has done well with Z, so putting Flip, Z, and Brunner together should seem a good fit.
Franzen plays best with Z.
And Z needs Flip's speed.

Brunner has a couple goals, but he's not looking all that effective thus far.

You've got to do something to get more pucks on net from the other line..

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02-03-2013, 09:33 AM
  #7
Brick Top
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I'd be ok with Babs swapping the top 6 wingers to get a different look- seems like only one of those lines is really effective per game, so maybe balancing it out a little would get them both going at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fimoknete View Post
honestly. what do you expect from our bottom 6?
they do what they can. give the first 2 lines some time for recovering on the bench. there are no scorer on the lines.
unless u expect old and slow vets suddenly growing quick feet again or untalented(nhl wise) players growing some talent.
i never saw this best nr 3 line of the whole nhl in our team.
I expect some sort of secondary scoring help, b/c you can't rely on your top 6 to score every goal. Even though we are right now.

Sammy and Helm coming back will help, although it will be hard for Babcock to resist the Death Star tractor beam-like pull of slotting Sammy back in the top 6. Either way, they simply need more out of the bottom 6 guys. Tootoo and (can't believe I'm saying this) Emmerton are the only ones who have looked remotely good out there.

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02-03-2013, 09:42 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Franzen plays best with Z.
And Z needs Flip's speed.

Brunner has a couple goals, but he's not looking all that effective thus far.

You've got to do something to get more pucks on net from the other line..
Brunner has scored 4 so far.

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02-03-2013, 09:55 AM
  #9
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Never cared for the Franzen-D-Bert line. Not enough pressure, too many turnovers.

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02-03-2013, 09:59 AM
  #10
Jurky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brick Top View Post
I expect some sort of secondary scoring help, b/c you can't rely on your top 6 to score every goal. Even though we are right now.

Sammy and Helm coming back will help, although it will be hard for Babcock to resist the Death Star tractor beam-like pull of slotting Sammy back in the top 6. Either way, they simply need more out of the bottom 6 guys. Tootoo and (can't believe I'm saying this) Emmerton are the only ones who have looked remotely good out there.
I think part of the problem is coaching, too many times the bottom sixers are content with the shot from the outside, with no traffic in front, and no chance for a rebound. I saw like 3-4 times when Abby or Miller had someone driving the net hard and instead of putting low and forcing a rebound for the other guy (was mostly always 22 btw) they just shoot it from the outside and the goalie gives no rebound.
The bottom six needs to be a huge contributor in the "garbage goal" department but it seems like their not willing to do it, Babs needs to do something about that.


Last edited by Jurky: 02-03-2013 at 10:08 AM.
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02-03-2013, 10:04 AM
  #11
Trvp Lord
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Top 2 lines should be like

Filppula-Zetterberg-Brunner
Nyquist(never gonna happen)-Datsyuk-Franzen

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:21 AM
  #12
Dacop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Brunner has a couple goals, but he's not looking all that effective thus far.
I'm not a native english speaker and therefore I do not really know what you mean with "effective" (in german you talk about effective for "doing something good" and efficient for "doing something in a good way")

However, If we look at the percentage of successfull attempts (effectiveness?):

Jonathan Ericsson 0.250 (1/4)
Todd Bertuzzi 0.222 (2/9)
Ian White 0.200 (1/5)
Brian Lashoff 0.200 (1/5)
Pavel Datsyuk 0.200 (3/15)
Henrik Zetterberg 0.147 (5/34)
Damien Brunner 0.138 (4/29)

Otherwise we have Brunner as #2 for goals and shots....not that bad.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:41 AM
  #13
ProPAIN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsRatchet View Post
Top 2 lines should be like

Filppula-Zetterberg-Brunner
Nyquist(never gonna happen)-Datsyuk-Franzen
The lines I'd like to see when everyone healthy

Filppula - Zetterberg - Brunner
Nyquist - Datsyuk - Franzen
Tatar - Helm - Tootoo
Abdelkader - Sheahan - Eaves
Mursak, Andersson

Kronwall - Lashoff
Ericsson - Smith
Huskins - White
Kindl

Howard
Gustavsson

PP1
Franzen - Datsyuk - Brunner
Kronwall - White

PP2
Nyquist-Sheahan (net-front presence)-Tatar
Zetterberg - Smith

Rotate in Filppula.

PK
Helm-Eaves
Abdelkader-Filppula
Datsyuk-Zetterberg

Ericsson-Huskins
Kronwall-Lashoff

Rotate in Smith and Sheahan

That rules out Bert, Sammy, Cleary, Miller, CC, Quincey and Emmerton, which will never happen.

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Old
02-03-2013, 11:00 AM
  #14
jaeger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsRatchet View Post
Top 2 lines should be like

Filppula-Zetterberg-Brunner
Nyquist(never gonna happen)-Datsyuk-Franzen
Two unproven players in the top 6. Yikes.

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02-03-2013, 11:09 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaeger View Post
Two unproven players in the top 6. Yikes.
Nyquist and Franzen?

Brunner has been more productive than Franzen. And I like his play better. He shoots from everywhere. And he's not even had 10 games to adjust. He'll only get better with time.

As for the original topic. Filp has shown great chemistry in the past with Z and I love the idea of giving Datsyuk a pure shooter with good speed. I advocated this move myself over on ****** a while ago. I think that's the switch that should be made. Yes, Brunner and Z did great together over in Europe, but that was Europe. It *is* a different style of play. And if Brunner is any amount of a decent hockey player, he'll surely find a way to be productive with Pavel Freaking Datsyuk.

1. Get open
2. Take shots.
3. Profit.

There is no ??? step.

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Old
02-03-2013, 11:32 AM
  #16
Eastopia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacop View Post
I'm not a native english speaker and therefore I do not really know what you mean with "effective" (in german you talk about effective for "doing something good" and efficient for "doing something in a good way")
I'm not a native English speaker either, but effectiveness is how well x brings the desired result while efficiency deals with how much wasted energy there is to achieve it. The percentage of the shots that result in a goal would be the efficiency in this case, while the total amount of goals would be effectiveness. (This is of course not always the case; see for example Lidström shooting for Holmström to deflect. By this measure Lidström would be shown to be less efficient than he really was, as these shots were not meant to end up in goal - the desired effect was a different one. (Even though the desired end result was the same - a goal - the desired result of the shot - a deflection - is what matters here, since that's the effectiveness/efficiency we're measuring. But this is neither here nor there. ))

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacop View Post
However, If we look at the percentage of successfull attempts (effectiveness?):

Jonathan Ericsson 0.250 (1/4)
Todd Bertuzzi 0.222 (2/9)
Ian White 0.200 (1/5)
Brian Lashoff 0.200 (1/5)
Pavel Datsyuk 0.200 (3/15)
Henrik Zetterberg 0.147 (5/34)
Damien Brunner 0.138 (4/29)

Otherwise we have Brunner as #2 for goals and shots....not that bad.
Ignoring Filppula as you didn't include his stats, Brunner is here the least efficient shooter, but the second-most effective one.

This is my understanding, at least. Someone else may feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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02-03-2013, 01:31 PM
  #17
Trvp Lord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaeger View Post
Two unproven players in the top 6. Yikes.
Brunner has been one of our best goal scorers this season. He has proved enough to me thus far. He also has chemistry with Zetterberg. Nyquist has shown he has chemistry with Datsyuk...

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02-03-2013, 01:52 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacop View Post
I'm not a native english speaker and therefore I do not really know what you mean with "effective" (in german you talk about effective for "doing something good" and efficient for "doing something in a good way")

However, If we look at the percentage of successfull attempts (effectiveness?):

Jonathan Ericsson 0.250 (1/4)
Todd Bertuzzi 0.222 (2/9)
Ian White 0.200 (1/5)
Brian Lashoff 0.200 (1/5)
Pavel Datsyuk 0.200 (3/15)
Henrik Zetterberg 0.147 (5/34)
Damien Brunner 0.138 (4/29)

Otherwise we have Brunner as #2 for goals and shots....not that bad.
Brunner has scored goals. But his play, otherwise, has not been something you notice.
He needs to be more involved on the play.

You have three guys who like to shoot the puck on one line and ZERO guys who like to shoot the puck on the other.

Trading Flip for Brunner might help the Z line's defensive issues and give Datsyuk the right-handed shooter he hasn't had since Hull/Shanahan.

In those first two games with the Z-D-Brunner line, Brunner had a couple really good even strength chances.

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02-03-2013, 01:54 PM
  #19
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Datsyuk + Franzen is terrible.

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02-03-2013, 02:36 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacop View Post
I'm not a native english speaker and therefore I do not really know what you mean with "effective" (in german you talk about effective for "doing something good" and efficient for "doing something in a good way")

However, If we look at the percentage of successfull attempts (effectiveness?):

Jonathan Ericsson 0.250 (1/4)
Todd Bertuzzi 0.222 (2/9)
Ian White 0.200 (1/5)
Brian Lashoff 0.200 (1/5)
Pavel Datsyuk 0.200 (3/15)
Henrik Zetterberg 0.147 (5/34)
Damien Brunner 0.138 (4/29)

Otherwise we have Brunner as #2 for goals and shots....not that bad.
To this you can add a goal winning SO !
It doesn't count in the stats, i am not highlighting the way he did it, i am just pointing out that he made the team win ! (one point !)

It was worth being mentioned IMO.

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02-03-2013, 02:45 PM
  #21
Jurky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Brunner has scored goals. But his play, otherwise, has not been something you notice.
He needs to be more involved on the play.

You have three guys who like to shoot the puck on one line and ZERO guys who like to shoot the puck on the other.

Trading Flip for Brunner might help the Z line's defensive issues and give Datsyuk the right-handed shooter he hasn't had since Hull/Shanahan.

In those first two games with the Z-D-Brunner line, Brunner had a couple really good even strength chances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Datsyuk + Franzen is terrible.
This.

I suggested this in another thread as was told how it is extremely over-rated to pair passers with shooters.

Someone needs to be shooting for Pav's line to be successful, just look at that lines best games, against Minny Bert had 5 shots and that line scored 2 goals against Dallas Filp led the team with 6 shots and that line scored 2 goals. When Filp and Bert aren't shooting that line is pretty ineffective, not shooting isn't a concern when it comes to Brunner. He's can enter the zone well enough because of his speed and from what I've seen he is pretty good at finding the soft spots and getting open. Add to that Bert's size and it's a match made in heaven IMO.

Bert-Pav-Nose
Mule-Hank-Filp

And just roll those as our PP forward units as well.

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02-03-2013, 02:51 PM
  #22
14ari13
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How is Datsyuk supposed to carry Brunner and Bertuzzi?

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02-03-2013, 03:11 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
I disagree. Put Mule on Datsyuk's line -- Franzen and Bert have worked reasonably well with Dats before. And Flip was doing well with Z last year, Brunner has done well with Z, so putting Flip, Z, and Brunner together should seem a good fit.
The problem with this is that then the first line would have nobody over 6' on it, a scary prospect when faced against a line like Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry, where all are >=6'2" 209lbs.

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02-03-2013, 03:14 PM
  #24
Jurky
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Delete please.

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Old
02-03-2013, 04:05 PM
  #25
RedWingsNow*
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Originally Posted by 14ari13 View Post
How is Datsyuk supposed to carry Brunner and Bertuzzi?
He carried Franzen + Homer... and Cleary and Hudler.
Honestly, would be nice if he was a speedy, big left winger to plug in instead of Bertuzzi... But Bert should be pretty good for that line.

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