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Paul Kelly says QC & Toronto to get expansion teams; Daly disputes assertion

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Old
02-01-2013, 08:23 PM
  #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...o.html?cmp=rss

Daly on HNIC Radio yesterday talking about expansion/Phoenix, etc. (audio)
Thanks, as usual, for the link, LadyStanley.

Apparently no one here believes a word Daly says, since no one has commented. Perhaps I'm naive or perhaps it's just what I want to believe, but I do believe the guy in that he says no particular promises have been made to anyone about expansion, or at least not to the Markham people.

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:10 PM
  #202
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There needs to be an all purpose sticky thread:

"Somebody said something: Daly disagrees"

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:21 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by candyman82 View Post
And by promoting that sport, you create more fans of the game who in turn buy your product.

It's not that hard to understand.
The poster I was responding to was saying you have to promote the NHL in Canada.

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02-01-2013, 10:37 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by G Dawg View Post
Montreal and Vancouver have NHL. That's it. Both used to have 2 pro teams, but Vancouver couldn't hold on to the NBA and Montreal lost it's baseball team.
What was said:
Quote:
Toronto is the ONLY Canadian city with 3 pro teams. No other city even has 2.
Hamilton has the Bulldogs, the Nationals and the Ticats who are all professional sports teams.
Montreal has the Canadiens, Alouettes, and Impact.
Vancouver has the Lions, Canucks, and the Whitecaps.
Winnipeg has the Jets and the Blue Bombers.
Calgary has the Flames, Roughnecks, and Stampeders.
Edmonton has the Oilers, Rush, and Eskimos.

The assertion that "No other city even has 2" is incorrect.

Quote:
Toronto has 3 out of the big 4, and technically they have NFL as well, so that's all 4 major pro sports. No other city in Canada can touch that. No other Canadian city even comes close. You're only lying to yourself if you think otherwise.
No other city is given a chance: Montreal could support the MLB and the NBA if those leagues would give it a chance. Vancouver could support an MLB team and I'd give it another (real) chance at an NBA team. Hamilton can support the NHL but isn't given a chance.

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02-01-2013, 11:15 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
What was said:


Hamilton has the Bulldogs, the Nationals and the Ticats who are all professional sports teams.
Montreal has the Canadiens, Alouettes, and Impact.
Vancouver has the Lions, Canucks, and the Whitecaps.
Winnipeg has the Jets and the Blue Bombers.
Calgary has the Flames, Roughnecks, and Stampeders.
Edmonton has the Oilers, Rush, and Eskimos.

The assertion that "No other city even has 2" is incorrect.



No other city is given a chance: Montreal could support the MLB and the NBA if those leagues would give it a chance. Vancouver could support an MLB team and I'd give it another (real) chance at an NBA team. Hamilton can support the NHL but isn't given a chance.

Perhaps G Dawg should have changed the descriptor to major league. Because the CFL, NLL, and MLS are not major league. For starters you should have at least 900 million in revenue, neither league comes close.

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02-02-2013, 12:19 AM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
What was said:


Hamilton has the Bulldogs, the Nationals and the Ticats who are all professional sports teams.
Montreal has the Canadiens, Alouettes, and Impact.
Vancouver has the Lions, Canucks, and the Whitecaps.
Winnipeg has the Jets and the Blue Bombers.
Calgary has the Flames, Roughnecks, and Stampeders.
Edmonton has the Oilers, Rush, and Eskimos.

The assertion that "No other city even has 2" is incorrect.



No other city is given a chance: Montreal could support the MLB and the NBA if those leagues would give it a chance. Vancouver could support an MLB team and I'd give it another (real) chance at an NBA team. Hamilton can support the NHL but isn't given a chance.
Ahem...


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Old
02-02-2013, 12:31 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Bullwine85 View Post
Ahem...

I'm sorry, but I don't consider dipping asap (and playing numerous home games in an entirely different country) as "giving it a chance". Same goes for the Grizzlies.

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02-02-2013, 02:05 AM
  #208
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I know it's OT, but as an expos fan, i have to say, the expos leaving montreal had nothing to do with whether montreal could support a team.

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02-02-2013, 03:04 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post

Hamilton has the Bulldogs, the Nationals and the Ticats who are all professional sports teams.
Montreal has the Canadiens, Alouettes, and Impact.
Vancouver has the Lions, Canucks, and the Whitecaps.
Winnipeg has the Jets and the Blue Bombers.
Calgary has the Flames, Roughnecks, and Stampeders.
Edmonton has the Oilers, Rush, and Eskimos.

The assertion that "No other city even has 2" is incorrect.
Those a bunch of minor league teams. Not one of those teams belongs to a league that is considered #1 in the entire world. The major leagues in North America are NHL, MLB, NBA, and NFL. All of those leagues represent the absolute best on earth for their respective sports. Toronto has all 4, no other Canadian city has more than 1. Toronto also has most (if not all) of those minor league teams as well. When it comes to pro sports, Toronto is in a completely different universe than the rest of Canada.

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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
No other city is given a chance: Montreal could support the MLB and the NBA if those leagues would give it a chance. Vancouver could support an MLB team and I'd give it another (real) chance at an NBA team. Hamilton can support the NHL but isn't given a chance.
You must be very young. Montreal had a baseball team and it ultimately failed. They were drawing only around 10,000 per game for the last 7 or 8 years of their existence. And the NBA would not fly in Montreal, otherwise they would have put a team there years ago. Vancuver supporting an MLB team/NHL team/NBA team is pure lunacy. It's nowhere near big enough to support even 2 of those sports, much less all 3.

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02-02-2013, 03:48 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
I know it's OT, but as an expos fan, i have to say, the expos leaving montreal had nothing to do with whether montreal could support a team.
Well if they could they would have a team.

Corporate and fan support was absent.

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02-02-2013, 09:46 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by G Dawg View Post
Those a bunch of minor league teams. Not one of those teams belongs to a league that is considered #1 in the entire world. The major leagues in North America are NHL, MLB, NBA, and NFL. All of those leagues represent the absolute best on earth for their respective sports. Toronto has all 4, no other Canadian city has more than 1. Toronto also has most (if not all) of those minor league teams as well. When it comes to pro sports, Toronto is in a completely different universe than the rest of Canada.
True



Quote:
You must be very young. Montreal had a baseball team and it ultimately failed. They were drawing only around 10,000 per game for the last 7 or 8 years of their existence. And the NBA would not fly in Montreal, otherwise they would have put a team there years ago. Vancuver supporting an MLB team/NHL team/NBA team is pure lunacy. It's nowhere near big enough to support even 2 of those sports, much less all 3.
Only partly true. Vancouver could support both. Milwaukee has both the NBA and MLB, but they don't want. Montreal had a ball team longer then Toronto did until they left.

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02-02-2013, 10:52 AM
  #212
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Well if they could they would have a team.

Corporate and fan support was absent.
There is a lot more to the story than that.

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02-02-2013, 10:56 AM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G Dawg View Post
You must be very young. Montreal had a baseball team and it ultimately failed. They were drawing only around 10,000 per game for the last 7 or 8 years of their existence. And the NBA would not fly in Montreal, otherwise they would have put a team there years ago. Vancuver supporting an MLB team/NHL team/NBA team is pure lunacy. It's nowhere near big enough to support even 2 of those sports, much less all 3.
You must be very young because Montreal was absolutely a quality MLB market. They were sabatoged by the league, their "owner" (The man who is currently sabatoging the Miami Marlins) and Donald Fehr (There is a reason when he visited Montreal last season he was boo'ed more than Bettman would).

They didn't have an English language TV contract in their final years because Loria refused to negotiate, Loria was purposely aloof in talks with Montreal to build a new stadium. He screwed the other Expos owners out of their stake (Both of whom wished to keep the team in Montreal). The league not only allowed this but they encouraged Loria. Donald Fehr called a strike when Montreal was the best team in baseball, World Series favourites and baseball fever in Montreal. Even today, when the Canadiens have honoured former Expo's like Gary Carter and Andre Dawson, the Canadiens crowd remembers them. Montreal will get their MLB team back eventually, maybe not till Seilig leaves but even Seilig has admitted they grossly mishandled the Expo's situation. Hell, with the Rays current struggles financially, I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen in the next 10 years.

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02-02-2013, 10:57 AM
  #214
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I recall this rumour (Qc+Mark) is the same then the one we heard at the BoG meeting in Ottawa, more then a year ago.

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02-02-2013, 12:34 PM
  #215
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Ever since Rick Monday hit that home run the Expos started tanking attendance wise... once The Blue Jays won 2 world Series that pretty much sealed it. I went to appx 300 expos games as a kid and interest in the team started dropping in the early-mid 80's and never came back. Absent a new park, the team was dead in the water no matter who owned it and that is just the plain truth. The expos were no different than the Coyotes save the fact, on $1 hot dog nights the fans would start showing up...

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02-02-2013, 08:41 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by MarkhamNHL View Post
Ever since Rick Monday hit that home run the Expos started tanking attendance wise... once The Blue Jays won 2 world Series that pretty much sealed it. I went to appx 300 expos games as a kid and interest in the team started dropping in the early-mid 80's and never came back. Absent a new park, the team was dead in the water no matter who owned it and that is just the plain truth. The expos were no different than the Coyotes save the fact, on $1 hot dog nights the fans would start showing up...
The 94 strike and subsequent firesale, then the blatant demolition of the team by Loria pretty much killed the fan's trust in the team.

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02-02-2013, 08:43 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
You must be very young because Montreal was absolutely a quality MLB market. They were sabatoged by the league, their "owner" (The man who is currently sabatoging the Miami Marlins) and Donald Fehr (There is a reason when he visited Montreal last season he was boo'ed more than Bettman would).

They didn't have an English language TV contract in their final years because Loria refused to negotiate, Loria was purposely aloof in talks with Montreal to build a new stadium. He screwed the other Expos owners out of their stake (Both of whom wished to keep the team in Montreal). The league not only allowed this but they encouraged Loria. Donald Fehr called a strike when Montreal was the best team in baseball, World Series favourites and baseball fever in Montreal. Even today, when the Canadiens have honoured former Expo's like Gary Carter and Andre Dawson, the Canadiens crowd remembers them. Montreal will get their MLB team back eventually, maybe not till Seilig leaves but even Seilig has admitted they grossly mishandled the Expo's situation. Hell, with the Rays current struggles financially, I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen in the next 10 years.
In the Loria years there was no french tv contract either. Only a radio deal. And even then it was local to Montreal, not the whole province as it had been before.

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02-02-2013, 09:17 PM
  #218
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You must be very young. Montreal had a baseball team and it ultimately failed. They were drawing only around 10,000 per game for the last 7 or 8 years of their existence.
You must be very naive: That had nothing to do with Montreal "failing" as a market; the MLB failed them. Don't try to act like they never supported the Expos. Hell they even averaged half a million more fans per game than the NL average for several years in the 80s.

Quote:
And the NBA would not fly in Montreal, otherwise they would have put a team there years ago.
As the NHL has clearly demonstrated, leagues always put teams where they will get the best support.
Quote:
Vancuver supporting an MLB team/NHL team/NBA team is pure lunacy. It's nowhere near big enough to support even 2 of those sports, much less all 3.
You really think Vancouver couldn't support two of those leagues? I don't know what to say to you other than that it's pretty clear Vancouver could support both the NHL and MLB.

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02-02-2013, 09:27 PM
  #219
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There is a lot more to the story than that.
But at the end of the day if the Expos would have had fan and corporate support, there would not have had to move. The State/Province was not interested in paying for a new stadium either. So it was a perfect storm.

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02-02-2013, 09:32 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Shawa666 View Post
The 94 strike and subsequent firesale, then the blatant demolition of the team by Loria pretty much killed the fan's trust in the team.
They were in freefall way before this as far as fanbase. Even in 94 when they had the best team in Baseball, people were not showing up that much. The other poster was not far from the truth that it sort of started with Blue Monday. But I would say moving from Park Jarrie to the Big O was the first really big negative change. Old timers would say that there was nothing like the ambiance at the Park and it was never the same after that.

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02-02-2013, 09:34 PM
  #221
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Do research on Loria and his ownership of florida team and the stadium he was involved in?Now you no part of the problems of Montreal expos.Imagine no french deal on tv

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02-02-2013, 10:18 PM
  #222
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In the Loria years there was no french tv contract either. Only a radio deal. And even then it was local to Montreal, not the whole province as it had been before.
I had only heard about the English-language one but that's even worse.

It's such blatant sabatoge it's sad. I really hope they get it back, but the MLB is even less favourable to moving teams than the NHL is. I have a feeling Montreal will need a new stadium built before a team moves, but I also have a feeling that one won't even get proposed untill they are promised a team, and then who knows.

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02-02-2013, 11:10 PM
  #223
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I agree that the Bulldogs (AHL.) & Nationals (MLL.) are really not pro leagues but the CFL. is a pro league in fact the CFL. or the Canadian Rugby Union pre dates the NFL.
buy 50 years & 4 out of the 8 teams are over 100 years old .

A 2nd team in Toronto is not going to happen because Markham is just way to close to Toronto & MLSE. will not let it happen also I don't think this so called arena they want to build is going to get built because I don't think Markham can up with the money they need for the project not mention there still a lot of hurdles Markham city council has to jump & I don't they will make the next jump & this arena will die .

Hamilton is booming right now with construction & investment right now with no signs of slowing down in fact more businesses are moving out of the GTA. to Hamilton because the cost of running a business in Hamilton is around 30% - 50% cheaper than in the GTA. . When you add all that up along with a posible Hard Rock Cafe Casino & Resort I think Hamilton will have an NHL. in 5 years .

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02-02-2013, 11:23 PM
  #224
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I'd much rather just see two re-locations than expansion.

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02-02-2013, 11:25 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
I agree that the Bulldogs (AHL.) & Nationals (MLL.) are really not pro leagues but the CFL. is a pro league in fact the CFL. or the Canadian Rugby Union pre dates the NFL.
buy 50 years & 4 out of the 8 teams are over 100 years old .

A 2nd team in Toronto is not going to happen because Markham is just way to close to Toronto & MLSE. will not let it happen also I don't think this so called arena they want to build is going to get built because I don't think Markham can up with the money they need for the project not mention there still a lot of hurdles Markham city council has to jump & I don't they will make the next jump & this arena will die .

Hamilton is booming right now with construction & investment right now with no signs of slowing down in fact more businesses are moving out of the GTA. to Hamilton because the cost of running a business in Hamilton is around 30% - 50% cheaper than in the GTA. . When you add all that up along with a posible Hard Rock Cafe Casino & Resort I think Hamilton will have an NHL. in 5 years .
Toronto doesn't have to worry about financial problems if a team moves into their backyard. Buffalo does.

Right now Copps is so outdated despite only being 20 years old that it needs major renovations. So a prospective Hamilton owner has to pay for renovations to Copps, then has to lease the arena. Not to mention the fees they'd have to pay Buffalo, and the Leafs will likely jump into that as well because cash is cash.

Hamilton is all but doomed with regards to getting an NHL team. Right now I can only see two places getting a team in Ontario, another in Toronto or one in Kitchener-Waterloo. I can guarentee as long as a new team in Toronto pays MLSE a fee, they'll let them in. Even though building a new arena is expensive and difficult to obtain, at least it would be state of the art.

Kitchener-Waterloo is the other option. It's out of both Buffalo and Toronto's zone, it's (If you include nearby Guelph, which you should) over 600,000 people, and growing much faster. It's got just as much corporate support and is on the 401.

Both have better logistics than Hamilton, and should get teams before Hamilton. If Hamilton doesn't get a team in the next 3 years, they will never get a team.

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