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Now that the roster is set, lets inventory F1 F2 F3s

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07-05-2013, 04:24 PM
  #1
WantonAbandon
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Now that the roster is set, lets inventory F1 F2 F3s

How I see the pieces falling into place

F1s: Marleau, Burns, Kennedy, Burish (he isn't as bad as you think)

F2s Thornton, Couture , Havlat (injured perhaps for season) Pavleski (F3 when Havlat is in the line up) Missing an ideal F2 so I don't know who they will use on the fourth line, Desi?

F3s Torres (can be used as an F1 depending on situation) Hertl (if he makes the team, might be able to be used as an F2, never seen him play if so maybe he'd drop Pavs to F3), Wingels, Sheppard


Last edited by WantonAbandon: 07-05-2013 at 05:41 PM.
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07-05-2013, 04:31 PM
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WantonAbandon
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If I am right here are the lines, assuming Hertl will be F3 and Havlat is injured

Hertl Thornton Burns

Marleau Couture Torres

Wingels Pavelski Kennedy

Sheppard Desi Burish

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07-05-2013, 04:38 PM
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Couture is not an ideal F2, in fact, he's nowhere close. Pavelski is closer to F3 also. I suppose he can F2 against 3rd tier competition, but I'd call him F3 if I had to describe him.

I think Burns will be an F3 rather than F1, I'd assume Kennedy will be doing the F1 duties on that line while Burns is F3.

Hertl will hopefully be an F2. Honestly, pretty much all of this season's success is going to rely on whether or not Hertl can reliably contribute as an F2 in a top-6 role.

The lines will likely look like this, assuming everybody not named Havlat is healthy.

Kennedy(F1)-Thornton(F2)-Burns(F3)
Marleau(F1)-Couture(F3)-Hertl(F2)
Torres(F3)-Pavelski(F2)-Wingels(F1)
Burish(F1)-Sheppard(F2)-Desjardins(F3)

I really feel it would be much easier for the team if they kept Galiardi.

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07-05-2013, 04:40 PM
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WantonAbandon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Couture is not an ideal F2, in fact, he's nowhere close. Pavelski is closer to F3 also.
You have the play the hand you have.

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07-05-2013, 04:43 PM
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If we signed one more F2, we'd be fine. Wellwood and Jagorim Jarg are both good options that would solve the issue while Havlat is hurt.

When Havlat is healthy, it gets more complicated (in a good way)

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07-05-2013, 04:44 PM
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noexult
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Hertl is either F2 or F1, no F3. He was often the F1 during the WC.

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07-05-2013, 04:47 PM
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F1: Burns, Marelau (Can also play F3), Torres, Kennedy, Wingels
F2: Thornton, Havlat, Desjardins, Sheppard
F3: Couture, Pavelski (Can also play F2, but not as effectively), Burish

Haven't seen Hertl play.

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07-05-2013, 04:48 PM
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WantonAbandon
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If Hertl makes the team and can be used as a F2 then this is my line remap

Wingels Thornton Burns

Marleau Couture Torres

Hertl Pavelski Kennedy

Sheppard Desi Burish

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07-05-2013, 04:50 PM
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Arrch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
Wingels Thornton Burns
Unless Burns learns to play F3, that will line will suffer the same fate as the TJ/Thornton/Burns line: Great at keeping the puck in the offensive zone, not much finish.

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07-05-2013, 04:51 PM
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based on burns play i could see an amalgamation of F2/F3 duties there. kennedy would likely end up F1 on burns line.

just going off most likely: in line order

F1: kennedy, marleau, torres, desi
F2: thornton, couture, hertl, shepp
F3: burns, wingels, pavs, burish

i see a glaring weakness in our top line. i would adjust their zone strategy compared to other lines. everything else looks good to me.

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07-05-2013, 04:56 PM
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Every scouting report I've read on Hertl says he's a playmaker. He can score, but I think he's more of an F2 than anything else...?

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07-05-2013, 04:56 PM
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WantonAbandon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrch View Post
Unless Burns learns to play F3, that will line will suffer the same fate as the TJ/Thornton/Burns line: Great at keeping the puck in the offensive zone, not much finish.
At even strength yeah you may have a point, but that line could shutdown and wear down a line like Richards and Carters. Draw penalties too. They still would chip in a few goals too boot. The lines I have created wouldn't be dependent on Thorntons line.


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07-05-2013, 05:04 PM
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WTFetus
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I'd like to try

Kennedy (F1) - Thornton (F2) - Burns (F3)
Marleau (F1) - Couture (F3) - Hertl (F2)
Torres (F1) - Pavelski (F3) - Sheppard (F2)
Wingels - Desjardins - Burish

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07-05-2013, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
At even strength yeah you may have a point, but that line could shutdown and wear down a line like Richards and Carters. Draw penalties too. They still would chip in a few goals a bit too boot. The lines I have created wouldn't be dependent on Thorntons line.
Couture's line cannot produce at even strength without an F2 (Havlat). They were an effect shutdown with Torres, and were fairly poor with Pavelski (again, no F2).

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
I'd like to try

Kennedy (F1) - Thornton (F2) - Burns (F3)
Marleau (F1) - Couture (F3) - Hertl (F2)
Torres (F1) - Pavelski (F3) - Sheppard (F2)
Wingels - Desjardins - Burish
Burns is an F1

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07-05-2013, 05:11 PM
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WantonAbandon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrch View Post


Burns is an F1
To be fair, he can be.

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07-05-2013, 05:11 PM
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WTFetus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrch View Post
Burns is an F1
He can do either. Galiardi was doing most of the forechecking duties in the end of the season and playoffs for that line.

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07-05-2013, 05:13 PM
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With them wanting Burns to play forward, he has to be an F3 because it maximizes his production potential and his natural abilities. If he is an F1, he's fore-checking and likely out of prime scoring areas when opportunities arise. It's tough for an F1 to do his job then become a scoring threat, let alone do it with consistency.

Hertl is an F2 if they want to utilize him in a role that is best for what he brings to the ice.

I think you'll see the season start with Torres-Thornton-Burns and Marleau-Couture-Hertl. Then the third line will be someone with Pavelski and Kennedy. I'd like to think it will be Sheppard to start but it could be Wingels.

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07-05-2013, 05:14 PM
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btw when evaluating a players best position you should take into account defense as well. it works both ways.

so a guy that can usually get into either zone first will typically be an F1. marleau is our best. kennedy/torres will be good F1s. Torres given his finishing ability could give a fair shake as F3, and will have the best chance at convering his defensive inadequacies by getting back on D last. these positions can change depending, but its really a best guess.

a team should have an "ideal" offensive make up. so this is what we would like to happen every time. in the sharks case, its usually a smart chip closest to our best F1, ideally he would beat the defender to the puck...but more often than not will play the body marleau, kennedy, torres can do either.

your F2 is really just the first guy that has a chance to "read" the play. if we have a good chance to get the puck, F2 will support down low, if we get beat the F2 needs to be able to cut off strong side boards quickly. when someone says X has hockey sense, this is what it refers to. which is why pavelski has the ability to play F2. also, ideally youd want your F2 to be the first guy with the puck on his stick in open ice...which is where pavs falls short of nominal F2s.

your F3 should be reading off of the F2, rather than the developing play. ideally you want your F3 to be the first guy on the shot. this is where pavs excels, where burns could potentially excel, and a guy like wingels outside of F1, is best suited for. Torres also has shown the propensity to finish a play.

the key when you dont have enough of something (F2) is to develop your zone strategies to give your high hockey IQ guys the best chance to read the play. This can be done by overloading talented F1s because the biggest step in an F2s game is having the puck in open ice.

pavs cant playmake very well, but he does very well as F2 defender. marleau has been known to come in as F3, and defend as F2. etc. we have an abundance of hockey sense, and i think this is best set of F1s weve had in a long time. so maybe it will cover some of our weakness in creating plays.

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07-05-2013, 05:14 PM
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WantonAbandon
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Havlat is gone possibly for the season, but yeah here are my lines with Havlat recovered and Hertl making the team as an F2

Wingels Thornton Burns

Marleau Couture Havlat (Basically this is the top line)

Hertl Pavelski Torres (I sorta think its a good idea to put Couture and Torres together)

Sheppard Desi Burish

This could be a really good roster.

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07-05-2013, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noexult View Post
Hertl is either F2 or F1, no F3. He was often the F1 during the WC.
Hertl has to be fast to be an F1 in the NHL. I haven't seen one reports that makes that kind of claim for his speed. Everything says that he will be an F2 or F3 at the NHL level. My suspicion is F3, but most others are saying F2.

F1-first in the zone, leads line in hits, lowest scoring position on a line
F2-setup, gets the puck from the F1
F3-sniper, trails into the zone and gets open for the F2.

My tentative lineup:
Marleau (F1)/Couture (F3)/Kennedy (F1/F3)-Havlat(F2)
Hertl (F3)/JT (F2)/Burns (F1)
Torres (F1)/Pavs (F2)/Wingels (F3) but I bet Torres ends as both F1 and F3
Sheppard(F2)/Desi (F1/F2)/Burish (F3)

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07-05-2013, 05:16 PM
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WTFetus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I'd like to think it will be Sheppard to start but it could be Wingels.
I'd like to see Sheppard up there too (on the 3rd line), but I could see the coaches leaning towards Wingels. Seems a bit redundant to have Wingels and Kennedy on the same line.

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07-05-2013, 05:17 PM
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WantonAbandon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
btw when evaluating a players best position you should take into account defense as well. it works both ways.

so a guy that can usually get into either zone first will typically be an F1. marleau is our best. kennedy/torres will be good F1s. Torres given his finishing ability could give a fair shake as F3, and will have the best chance at convering his defensive inadequacies by getting back on D last. .
The finishing aspect is why I'd put Torres at F3 and he is less likely to get suspended as an F3 rather than an F1

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07-05-2013, 05:17 PM
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F3 is the shooter/finisher right? Even though Burns is a great F1 shouldn't he be F3 since he's one of our best finishers? Couture, Pavs, Marleau, and Burns are our goalscorers.

Pavs might be forced into F2 on the 3rd line so hopefully Kennedy/Wingels can finish. Couture might have to be F2 until Havlat comes back or we can find an F2. I'd rather Marleau be F3 and let some other speedy guy forecheck and chase. Ideally for the Thornton line we have another speedy guy to forecheck and free Burns up to be F3.

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07-05-2013, 05:18 PM
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WA you forgot Kennedy, ideally he would replace Wingels and Wingels would play on the fourth line, replacing the player who performs the worst on that line (likely Burish)

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07-05-2013, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
Havlat is gone possibly for the season, but yeah here are my lines with Havlat recovered and Hertl making the team as an F2

Wingels Thornton Burns

Marleau Couture Havlat (Basically this is the top line)

Hertl Pavelski Torres (I sorta think its a good idea to put Couture and Torres together)

Sheppard Desi Burish

This could be a really good roster.
You keep putting two righties on JT's line. I don't think it will work so well.

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