HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Comparing 1 & 2C's around the league

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-30-2013, 02:57 PM
  #1
Kevotron
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 259
vCash: 500
Comparing 1 & 2C's around the league

We have RNH and Gagner currently as our 1st and 2nd line center, taking size out of the equation I personally think our centers rank in the upper third of the league.
Here's how we stack up against the rest of the league.

Anaheim
1. Ryan Getzlaf
2. Saku Koivu
Boston
1. David Krejci
2. Patrice Bergeron
Buffalo
1. Cody Hodgson
2. Tyler Ennis
Calgary
1. Michael Cammalleri
2. Roman Cervenka
Carolina
1. Eric Staal
2. Jordan Staal
Chicago
1. Jonathan Toews
2. David Bolland
Columbus
1. Brandon Dubinski
2. Artem Anisimov
Colorado
1. Matt Duchene
2. Paul Stastny
Dallas
1. Jamie Benn
2. Derek Roy
Detroit
1. Pavel Datsyuk
2. Valtteri Flippula
Florida
1. Stephen Weiss
2. Jonathan Huberdeau
Los Angeles
1. Anze Kopitar
2. Mike Richards
Minnesota
1. Mikko Koivu
2. Matt Cullen
Montreal
1. Tomas Plekanec
2. David Desharnais
Nashville
1. David Legwand
2. Mike Fisher
New Jersey
1. Travis Zajac
2. Adam Henrique
New York Islanders
1. John Tavares
2. Frans Nielsen
New York Rangers
1. Brad Richards
2. Derek Stepan
Ottawa
1. Jason Spezza
2. Kyle Turris
Philadelphia
1. Claude Giroux
2. Daniel Briere
Phoenix
1. Martin Hanzal
2. Antoine Vermette
Pittsburg
1. Sidney Crosby
2. Evgeni Malkin
San Jose
1. Joe Thornton
2. Logan Couture
St Louis
1. David Backes
2. Patrik Berglund
Tampa Bay
1. Steven Stamkos
2. Vincent Lacavalier
Toronton
1. Tyler Bozak
2. Mikhail Grabovski
Vancouver
1. Henrik Sedin
2. Ryan Kesler
Washington
1. Nicklas Backstrom
2. Mike Ribeiro
Winnipeg
1. Olli Jokinen
2. Bryan Little

Kevotron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 03:05 PM
  #2
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 31,181
vCash: 2627
Good reference list, not exactly a lot of teams with two big centers.

joestevens29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 03:24 PM
  #3
Mcnofool6110
#bringbacktheTeddy
 
Mcnofool6110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sydney
Country: Australia
Posts: 7,234
vCash: 500
I don't know how exactly I'd rank the first few, but I'd say we're smack-dab in the middle.

That Pittsburgh, though...

Mcnofool6110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 03:26 PM
  #4
CornKicker
Tied with Lander G's
 
CornKicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,751
vCash: 50
Pittsburg
1. Sidney Crosby
2. Evgeni Malkin
San Jose
1. Joe Thornton
2. Logan Couture
St Louis
1. David Backes
2. Patrik Berglund
Tampa Bay
1. Steven Stamkos
2. Vincent Lacavalier

CornKicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 03:45 PM
  #5
McJadeddog
Registered User
 
McJadeddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
Posts: 13,778
vCash: 500
outside of the teams with fantastic centers (san jose, pittsburgh, LA, tampa bay, vancouver when kesler is healthy), we do pretty well in comparison i would say... of the remaining 25 or so teams, i would say we are clearly in the upper third, and should continue to rise as RNH and gagner get more experience and gain more strength (remember that gagner is still very young as well, and will most certainly continue to improve in these areas for the next few years)

what has to be remembered, is that centers do not operate in an isolated environment.... they work in tandem, and against, other teams wingers... and on the wing is where edmonton really shines, where we are easily in the top-5 or so of the league with hall, eberle, hemsky and yakupov... so if we give ourselves the 15th spot in centers (i'd argue a little higher, but bear with me) and 5th spot for wingers, that averages out to around 10th for our top-6, which seems about right to me

McJadeddog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 03:46 PM
  #6
402
#ualberta
 
402's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Edmonton
Country: Egypt
Posts: 2,855
vCash: 500
Nice list!

Which teams do you guys think have the worst duo at center
To me teams that are near the bottom are:
Columbus
Calgary
Florida
Toronto
Winnipeg
Buffalo

I might be way off with this though,

402 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 03:56 PM
  #7
Kevotron
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 259
vCash: 500
If Gagner is a 60 point center I would be very happy and wouldn't mind renewing his contract at 4 or 4.5m per year.
Sure we could go out and get ROR he would be a size upgrade, but Gagner definitely has the advantage in offensive creativity so in the end there is minimal upgrade in that position.

Kevotron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 04:13 PM
  #8
tiger_80
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,097
vCash: 500
I think the issue is not even Gagner--it's the general lack of size and grit in the top 6.
Replace Gagner with a a bigger 2C or Hemsky with Perry-type winger, and it's a different game. But the Oilers can't continue to employ them both on the 2nd line, if they are serious about winning.

tiger_80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 04:19 PM
  #9
OF17
Registered User
 
OF17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: en France
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,365
vCash: 500
Particularly with how Nuge's backchecking and defensive play has evolved and with Gagner's all-around maturation this year, the center situation looks pretty good heading forward. Obviously you'd like to add a good C prospect to push for future top-6 jobs, and maybe the Oilers will do just that this June. The Nuge-Gagner duo is one of the most skilled in the league though.

OF17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 04:21 PM
  #10
Lessy
Registered User
 
Lessy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sudbury
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,458
vCash: 500
Can't see many of these guys with size being available. Obviously Getzlaf is UFA but he isn't coming to Edmonton. Richards seems to in the doghouse a bit but he'd cost a ton seeing as how they gave up Simmonds and Schenn for him. Maybe David Bolland becomes available for the right price but even he seems to be part of the Hawks core and they're having tons of success right now.

Lessy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 04:39 PM
  #11
Horseradish
Registered User
 
Horseradish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: London, ON
Posts: 4,342
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevotron View Post
We have RNH and Gagner currently as our 1st and 2nd line center, taking size out of the equation I personally think our centers rank in the upper third of the league.
Here's how we stack up against the rest of the league.

Anaheim
1. Ryan Getzlaf
2. Saku Koivu
Boston
1. David Krejci
2. Patrice Bergeron
Buffalo
1. Cody Hodgson
2. Tyler Ennis
Calgary
1. Michael Cammalleri
2. Roman Cervenka
Carolina
1. Eric Staal
2. Jordan Staal
Chicago
1. Jonathan Toews
2. David Bolland
Columbus
1. Brandon Dubinski
2. Artem Anisimov
Colorado
1. Matt Duchene
2. Paul Stastny
Dallas
1. Jamie Benn
2. Derek Roy
Detroit
1. Pavel Datsyuk
2. Valtteri Flippula
Florida
1. Stephen Weiss
2. Jonathan Huberdeau
Los Angeles
1. Anze Kopitar
2. Mike Richards
Minnesota
1. Mikko Koivu
2. Matt Cullen
Montreal
1. Tomas Plekanec
2. David Desharnais
Nashville
1. David Legwand
2. Mike Fisher
New Jersey
1. Travis Zajac
2. Adam Henrique
New York Islanders
1. John Tavares
2. Frans Nielsen
New York Rangers
1. Brad Richards
2. Derek Stepan
Ottawa
1. Jason Spezza
2. Kyle Turris
Philadelphia
1. Claude Giroux
2. Daniel Briere
Phoenix
1. Martin Hanzal
2. Antoine Vermette
Pittsburg
1. Sidney Crosby
2. Evgeni Malkin
San Jose
1. Joe Thornton
2. Logan Couture
St Louis
1. David Backes
2. Patrik Berglund
Tampa Bay
1. Steven Stamkos
2. Vincent Lacavalier
Toronton
1. Tyler Bozak
2. Mikhail Grabovski
Vancouver
1. Henrik Sedin
2. Ryan Kesler
Washington
1. Nicklas Backstrom
2. Mike Ribeiro
Winnipeg
1. Olli Jokinen
2. Bryan Little
Honestly, we're looking good for the future. But right now? I've underlined 16 teams who I think are clearly better down the middle TODAY than Edmonton is. And a few other borderline calls.

Horseradish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:14 PM
  #12
McJadeddog
Registered User
 
McJadeddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
Posts: 13,778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
Honestly, we're looking good for the future. But right now? I've underlined 16 teams who I think are clearly better down the middle TODAY than Edmonton is. And a few other borderline calls.
i think you could argue a few of those, but generally i agree... i put us right around 15th, and i think that's pretty fair... it's not terrible though, as it's the definition of average (15th of 30th) and we'll only be improving over the next couple of years as RNH/gagner gain experience/strength/size

McJadeddog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2013, 04:23 PM
  #13
0ilerman
The King
 
0ilerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Capital City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,236
vCash: 500
I think gagner's start to this year puts Edmonton in the top 1/2 of this list

0ilerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2013, 05:05 PM
  #14
Replacement*
Checked out
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hiking
Country: Canada
Posts: 48,856
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
Honestly, we're looking good for the future. But right now? I've underlined 16 teams who I think are clearly better down the middle TODAY than Edmonton is. And a few other borderline calls.
I could dispute a lot of that.

But heres a few interesting ones. Logan Couture may look better at the moment but largely on the basis of the dominating team he's playing for and the linemates he gets. Its always easier to look damned good on a better club. Will Couture look like this as key elite vets on the Sharks retire? What would Gagner look like in SJ? Don't get me wrong I'm impressed with what Logan has done with the situation but nothing is totally in isolation.

Which leads me to Kyle Turris. On what basis in reality is Kyle Turris established as a clear better option than Gagner. At no point in Turris career has he looked better than Gagner. This seems simply a type of "grass is always greener on the other side". If Turris was here people would be on him in an instant.

Fillipula? Seriously? Gagner is half a dozen years younger and has as many career pts. Outside of one outlier year people would be screaming Belanger if Fillupula was plodding on here. Plus he's 29 in a month. This is a guy that wasn't even on NHL radar and he's better than Gagner? No, not at all, he's played his career on a much better club and done little with it.

Roy, Briere, Lecavalier, Ribiero are twilight of careers. Wouldn't really trade for them at this point. How much clock would you really be getting on these players. One should always consider that Gagner is this good, and he's 23. A lot of people on the list are way beyond that in age or way below Gagner's accomplishments and established skillset.

ps I do respect that you stated "today" and understand the basis of your post. I'm responding to the thread as much as your post.

Correcting for age how many NHL centers are demonstrably better than Gagner? How many would be available and at what cost? How much addition by subtraction would go on?

Gagner has never been one of the problems with this club.


Last edited by Replacement*: 02-04-2013 at 05:21 PM.
Replacement* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2013, 05:28 PM
  #15
frag2
Registered User
 
frag2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I could dispute a lot of that.

But heres a few interesting ones. Logan Couture may look better at the moment but largely on the basis of the dominating team he's playing for and the linemates he gets. Its always easier to look damned good on a better club. Will Couture look like this as key elite vets on the Sharks retire? What would Gagner look like in SJ? Don't get me wrong I'm impressed with what Logan has done with the situation but nothing is totally in isolation.

Which leads me to Kyle Turris. On what basis in reality is Kyle Turris established as a clear better option than Gagner. At no point in Turris career has he looked better than Gagner. This seems simply a type of "grass is always greener on the other side". If Turris was here people would be on him in an instant.

Fillipula? Seriously? Gagner is half a dozen years younger and has as many career pts. Outside of one outlier year people would be screaming Belanger if Fillupula was plodding on here. Plus he's 29 in a month. This is a guy that wasn't even on NHL radar and he's better than Gagner? No, not at all, he's played his career on a much better club and done little with it.

Roy, Briere, Lecavalier, Ribiero are twilight of careers. Wouldn't really trade for them at this point. How much clock would you really be getting on these players. One should always consider that Gagner is this good, and he's 23. A lot of people on the list are way beyond that in age or way below Gagner's accomplishments and established skillset.

ps I do respect that you stated "today" and understand the basis of your post. I'm responding to the thread as much as your post.

Correcting for age how many NHL centers are demonstrably better than Gagner? How many would be available and at what cost? How much addition by subtraction would go on?

Gagner has never been one of the problems with this club.
I don't agree with you often but couldn't have put it better. Add to that, why is it a "must" to have a bigger C? Couldn't that be offset by just having bigger, more physical wingers?

frag2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2013, 05:39 PM
  #16
Replacement*
Checked out
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hiking
Country: Canada
Posts: 48,856
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by frag2 View Post
I don't agree with you often but couldn't have put it better. Add to that, why is it a "must" to have a bigger C? Couldn't that be offset by just having bigger, more physical wingers?
Precisely. Plus that good Centers are a rarer commodity and harder to obtain. If you got em, the sensible thing is to keep em.

Replacement* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2013, 05:45 PM
  #17
Eytinge
Registered User
 
Eytinge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 10,920
vCash: 50
Great thread. Too many people think you need to big or physical centers to contend. My problem is with our bottom six. We have no real physical guys aside from Eager and Petrell. And no fighters beside Eager. We could use a guy like Thornton, Ott, Powe, etc. I'd prefer our bottom six gets a lot bigger/stronger while still being able to play.

Eytinge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2013, 06:28 PM
  #18
Diamondillium
DO YOU WANT ANTS!?
 
Diamondillium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Edmonton, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,898
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerfan17 View Post
Particularly with how Nuge's backchecking and defensive play has evolved and with Gagner's all-around maturation this year, the center situation looks pretty good heading forward. Obviously you'd like to add a good C prospect to push for future top-6 jobs, and maybe the Oilers will do just that this June. The Nuge-Gagner duo is one of the most skilled in the league though.
I read that wrong. Was very confused.

Diamondillium is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2013, 06:37 PM
  #19
Master Lok
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 7,072
vCash: 500
Thanks Op for your work in identifying the top two centres. Well thought out.

Master Lok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2013, 06:48 PM
  #20
McDoused
Registered User
 
McDoused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Katy <3
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,416
vCash: 500
Yep the guy that's 27th in league scoring just isn't good enough of a second line center. Clearly he is the reason we lose hockey games.

McDoused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2013, 06:58 PM
  #21
Baby Nilsson
Registered User
 
Baby Nilsson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,602
vCash: 500
I also agree with others in this thread. As long as Gagner is putting up points, adequate defensively, and continues to get stronger, I think we'll be fine. I think we can fill up the other positions with size just fine.

Ideally, we obviously want a bigger center. Ideally, you'd want a girlfriend with huge **** (that is if you like huge **** ) But if she's cute/gorgeous and has a great personality, who cares?

Baby Nilsson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2013, 07:02 PM
  #22
tiger_80
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,097
vCash: 500
The only teams I'd definitely rank below the Oilers as far strength down the middle are BUF, Calgary, Columbus, FLA, Phoenex, and Winnipeg. There are quite a few teams out there with strong two way centres (e.g. Columbus, Nashville, MIN etc) who probably will outplay RNH and Gagner in a play-off series. For the Oilers to be ranked in the top third of the league, Gagner has to keep close to his current level of offensive production, and both Gagner and RNH have to pick it up defensively and on the face-offs.

tiger_80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2013, 07:26 PM
  #23
Toydarian
Registered User
 
Toydarian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,709
vCash: 500
I was curious to see which teams had a "big" top 6 center. Arbitrarily chose 6'2", 200lbs and up. These were the results (using hockeydb.com H and W listings).

ANA - Getzlaf
CAR - E.Staal, J.Staal
CHI - Toews
CBJ - Dubinsky, Anisimov
DAL - Benn
LAK - Kopitar
MIN - Koivu
NSH - Legwand
NJD - Zajac
OTT - Spezza
PHO - Hanzal
PIT - Malkin
SJS - Thornton
STL - Backes, Berglund
TBL - Lecavalier
VAN - Kesler
WIN - Jokinen

NOTE: There were a few teams who were very close to the cut off (i.e. Boston)

Toydarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2013, 07:53 PM
  #24
Oilwings
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 604 Area
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,438
vCash: 500
Not just our centre depth is lacking. Our dcore and goaltending are lacking too. I would seriously target either Florida, Columbus and NYI. I believe Weiss is available and Bailey is available from the NYI. Mason is available too from the Jackets.

Oilwings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2013, 08:54 PM
  #25
McClelland
Registered User
 
McClelland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bergen
Country: Norway
Posts: 1,465
vCash: 50
This is only pure speculation and a personal view on a player and the need for the team to be a contender.

We cant tell that Gagner has developed his game yet, 8 games is a small sample and he can pretty fast go to the dessert mode. He has always had his moments of brilliance and looking good time to time. But the stats indicate that he hasnt done any progress in
his weaker sides, the fo is worse so far , hes -4 and leading the Gav stats.

Sammy must rack up 70p seasons to compensate for a bad fo and a lot of Gav, You dont need a big 2c to be a contender, but he must play big and winning battles .

I dont see any specific skills with Gags game other then a good cycling player with a fast shot and with a small portion of clutch. But the most of his good games appear in games against weak teams who give him free space to do his stuff, so its not a coincident that the biggest part of his points comes in pp.

We have Rnh now who isnt a lock in defensive zone yet, so i think that the need of what sammy brings isnt there, we have other raw offensive players who needs a two way 2c lock to explode.


Last edited by McClelland: 02-04-2013 at 09:01 PM.
McClelland is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:34 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.