HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Райан О'Рейли: In Soviet Ontario Offer Sheets Sign You; Rayan's 3rd Thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-05-2013, 02:50 PM
  #451
AllAboutAvs
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: B.C. Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
All I have to say is that's a piss poor team that's spending the cap.
But a lot of people here on HF will be happy because they will finally be spending money. That is initially of course because then these same people will start complaining about how much we are paying these guys.

That pretty well sums it up for you?

AllAboutAvs is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 02:51 PM
  #452
Bonzai12
Registered User
 
Bonzai12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver CO
Country: United States
Posts: 8,510
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Bonzai12
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
All I have to say is that's a piss poor team that's spending the cap.
funny I was thinking the same thing when I summed up all those numbers.

I gotta think Stastny has to go. I mean it's just inevitable looking at that thing. If you're going to eventually pay Lando and Duchene $6M you can't put Stastny on that same contract.

Giving ROR $5M long term is just as risky as bringing Stastny back. The only reason I'm on ROR's side of keeping him in a Colorado Avs uniform is that I truly believe he will improve due to his work ethic, although there may now have been just too much bad blood spent in this whole ordeal.


The other crappy thing in this is that Hishon didn't pan out. Bringing up Siemens will eventually give some cap relief but Hishon not being a replacement for one of the forwards in the near future may really damper things.

Bonzai12 is online now  
Old
02-05-2013, 02:58 PM
  #453
danmcn12
#freeRedmond
 
danmcn12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
All I have to say is that's a piss poor team that's spending the cap.
Not if EJ, lando, duchene, stazz, varly, and Jones play to their contracts. EJ won't be sniffing 6 mil long term still he starts hitting 40 points.

danmcn12 is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 03:04 PM
  #454
CobraAcesS
Registered User
 
CobraAcesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 9,144
vCash: 500
At this point I think we need to really consider shipping O'Reilly out for a partner for EJ. ZOMG is Hunwick showing cracks getting played 20+ minutes a night....

CobraAcesS is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 03:10 PM
  #455
Bubba Thudd
See Me, Feeeel Meeee
 
Bubba Thudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Outside Looking In
Posts: 15,980
vCash: 5495
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
At this point I think we need to really consider shipping O'Reilly out for a partner for EJ. ZOMG is Hunwick showing cracks getting played 20+ minutes a night....
Hunwick is giving it his all, but he's just not cut out to be a 1st pairing guy.

Bubba Thudd is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 03:13 PM
  #456
Freudian
Clearly deranged
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 37,292
vCash: 50
So with him being injured at around mid-January in Russia, coming back and somehow aggravating the injury and him still being injured at this point, you have to wonder that it might not be as minor an injury as his agent let on initially.

Freudian is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 03:34 PM
  #457
CobraAcesS
Registered User
 
CobraAcesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 9,144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Hunwick is giving it his all, but he's just not cut out to be a 1st pairing guy.
Yeah I'm starting to question whether we need O'Reilly back or a offensive minded left handed defense partner for EJ more.

I know everyone wants EJ to break out offensively and he still may improve a bit in that area. But one thing he can do for sure at this point is be a mobile two-way top pairing defender. Maybe not a guy who puts up 40 points but more like 28-35 points.

Yandle really would fix a lot of our offensive and defensive woes with the minutes he could log while being a real offensive catalyst. If EJ is playing strong defense then we really just need a offensive defender who is at least responsible enough to play 20+ minutes.

CobraAcesS is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 03:39 PM
  #458
Huis Clos*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ballarado
Country: United States
Posts: 6,019
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
So with him being injured at around mid-January in Russia, coming back and somehow aggravating the injury and him still being injured at this point, you have to wonder that it might not be as minor an injury as his agent let on initially.
If that happens to be true it would be hilarious.

Huis Clos* is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 03:39 PM
  #459
Nihiliste
Registered User
 
Nihiliste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Yeah I'm starting to question whether we need O'Reilly back or a offensive minded left handed defense partner for EJ more.
Unfortunately we badly need both.

Nihiliste is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 03:51 PM
  #460
SoundwaveIsCharisma
Moderator
 
SoundwaveIsCharisma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Screw You Blaster
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,207
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SoundwaveIsCharisma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
Unfortunately we badly need both.
Definitely need both. Avs have a severe lack of real talent, there are a lot of roster fillers, but not enough players that can actually make any sort of impact.

SoundwaveIsCharisma is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 03:58 PM
  #461
Bubba Thudd
See Me, Feeeel Meeee
 
Bubba Thudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Outside Looking In
Posts: 15,980
vCash: 5495
As we have discussed plenty of times, Yandle on the D helps the D tremendously. It allows Wilson to slide back to 2nd pairing with Hejda -- which might not be ideal, but it's a lot better than what we have.

Bubba Thudd is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 04:00 PM
  #462
Hennessy
Blank Space
 
Hennessy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Östersund, Sweden
Country: United States
Posts: 7,657
vCash: 4200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
So with him being injured at around mid-January in Russia, coming back and somehow aggravating the injury and him still being injured at this point, you have to wonder that it might not be as minor an injury as his agent let on initially.
Did we ever find out how he got out of his KHL contract? Or why?

Hennessy is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 04:08 PM
  #463
CobraAcesS
Registered User
 
CobraAcesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 9,144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennessy View Post
Did we ever find out how he got out of his KHL contract? Or why?
All they publicized was that, because of his injury time table his KHL team chose to let him go so that they could add another player before their deadline.

CobraAcesS is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 04:14 PM
  #464
CobraAcesS
Registered User
 
CobraAcesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 9,144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundwaveIsCharisma View Post
Definitely need both. Avs have a severe lack of real talent, there are a lot of roster fillers, but not enough players that can actually make any sort of impact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
As we have discussed plenty of times, Yandle on the D helps the D tremendously. It allows Wilson to slide back to 2nd pairing with Hejda -- which might not be ideal, but it's a lot better than what we have.

Yeah... we do need both. Without O'Reilly we need three things...

A defensive third line center/pk specialist, a top line winger, and a top pairing defender. If we tank we can get one of those things out of the draft. Then we can trade for one more, and hopefully sign the pk/defensive center as a UFA.

Without tanking I don't see how we complete the rebuild within the next two years. Not enough trade pieces and not enough talent in the system...

Trade O'Reilly for Yandle...

Sign Bozak in the off-season...

Draft another talented forward, preferably a winger...

I do think without that forward we can be a competitive team but not without a strong third line and a complete defense.

2013-14 Avs?

Landeskog - Stastny - Jones <-- Gawd hes ugly because that's the only place he works and he barely works there. Can we just turn Sgarbossa into a RW?

McGinn - Duchene - Parenteau

Mitchell - Bozak - Downie

McLeod - Olver/Malone - Bordy

Yandle - EJ

Hejda - Wilson

ROB, Hunwick, Barrie, Zannon (We need to find a way to get rid of SOB and Zannon)


Last edited by CobraAcesS: 02-05-2013 at 04:28 PM.
CobraAcesS is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 04:14 PM
  #465
expatriated_texan
Freaking Loopy
 
expatriated_texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Country: United States
Posts: 7,758
vCash: 50
Call me frugal but I think the AVs broke off talks with ROR because they don't want to sign him until he's healthy enough to play. Once signed he gets paid...and they are too cheap right now to pay him to sit on the IR. /tinfoilhatrant

expatriated_texan is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 04:23 PM
  #466
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 13,171
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatriated_texan View Post
Call me frugal but I think the AVs broke off talks with ROR because they don't want to sign him until he's healthy enough to play. Once signed he gets paid...and they are too cheap right now to pay him to sit on the IR. /tinfoilhatrant
As stated before, that excuse doesn't hold up. Because he was injured while not employed by the team, the Avs wouldn't have to pay him until he was healthy, even if he were under contract. Both Brooks Laich and Erik Gudbranson got injured during the lockout and despite being under contract with their respective clubs, they won't been paid until they're healthy enough to play.

There is absolutely no logical reason for the two sides not to be engaged in talks. It's pride holding both sides back, and nothing more.

Av-merican is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 04:41 PM
  #467
Hennessy
Blank Space
 
Hennessy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Östersund, Sweden
Country: United States
Posts: 7,657
vCash: 4200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
There is absolutely no logical reason for the two sides not to be engaged in talks. It's pride holding both sides back, and nothing more.
Or it could simply be that neither side will budge. What's the point of talks? If I'm the Avs, I've made an offer that is more than fair. If the player won't take it - indeed, if he tries to bargain by going to Russia - I'm not going to be inclined to offer more.

If pride comes into any of this, it is from O'Reilly. If we are to believe our mole, the Avs offended O'Reilly somewhere in the negotiations last year. He made a gambit that did not work, and has thus far refused to sign an offer that looks quite generous in comparison to other RFAs who were holding out and have similar upside. And agents.

Hennessy is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 05:28 PM
  #468
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 13,171
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennessy View Post
Or it could simply be that neither side will budge. What's the point of talks? If I'm the Avs, I've made an offer that is more than fair. If the player won't take it - indeed, if he tries to bargain by going to Russia - I'm not going to be inclined to offer more.

If pride comes into any of this, it is from O'Reilly. If we are to believe our mole, the Avs offended O'Reilly somewhere in the negotiations last year. He made a gambit that did not work, and has thus far refused to sign an offer that looks quite generous in comparison to other RFAs who were holding out and have similar upside. And agents.
What is "fair" and/or "more than fair" is up for debate. I wish he had taken either deal, but I can understand why he didn't. What kills me is that the Avs reportedly haven't adjusted their offers in the slightest. This is negotiation, I don't see why it's so egregious for O'Reilly and his agent to ask for a better offer. I believe his agent when he says O'Reilly isn't demanding $5 million a year. Again, the fact the two sides have failed to reach some sort of middle ground is as much on the Avs as it is O'Reilly. And yes, for it to have dragged out this far despite the fact that the lineup has more holes in it by the day is most certainly pride on the Avs part as well.

Simply put, the Avs are hurting themselves more than they're sticking it to O'Reilly's camp. They painted themselves into a corner with the moves they've made and don't have nearly as firm ground to stand on as Montreal and Dallas did. And it looks like Dallas more or less caved anyway. Montreal had the luxury of still being able to ice a very good team without Subban. The Avs have no such advantage.

Av-merican is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 05:43 PM
  #469
expatriated_texan
Freaking Loopy
 
expatriated_texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Country: United States
Posts: 7,758
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
What is "fair" and/or "more than fair" is up for debate. I wish he had taken either deal, but I can understand why he didn't. What kills me is that the Avs reportedly haven't adjusted their offers in the slightest. This is negotiation, I don't see why it's so egregious for O'Reilly and his agent to ask for a better offer. I believe his agent when he says O'Reilly isn't demanding $5 million a year. Again, the fact the two sides have failed to reach some sort of middle ground is as much on the Avs as it is O'Reilly. And yes, for it to have dragged out this far despite the fact that the lineup has more holes in it by the day is most certainly pride on the Avs part as well.

Simply put, the Avs are hurting themselves more than they're sticking it to O'Reilly's camp. They painted themselves into a corner with the moves they've made and don't have nearly as firm ground to stand on as Montreal and Dallas did. And it looks like Dallas more or less caved anyway. Montreal had the luxury of still being able to ice a very good team without Subban. The Avs have no such advantage.
I get what you are saying and a first class team that treats all of its players with respect and dignity wouldn't view things this way but seriously...this is not negotiations. If it was negotiations there would be no restriction to the free agency. The whole purpose of restricted free agency is to allow teams to keep their costs down on young players. That is the team's right...much like it is the player's right to not sign and play in the NHL as a restricted free agent or their right to run, not walk, not jog but run like hell once they become an unrestricted free agent.

Both parties are absolutely within their rights here. It's a shame. I also no longer believe the AVs are a first class organization and that it will become difficult for them to attract top end talent via free-agency in the near future.

expatriated_texan is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 05:43 PM
  #470
henchman24
If and if...
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 19,547
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
What is "fair" and/or "more than fair" is up for debate. I wish he had taken either deal, but I can understand why he didn't. What kills me is that the Avs reportedly haven't adjusted their offers in the slightest. This is negotiation, I don't see why it's so egregious for O'Reilly and his agent to ask for a better offer. I believe his agent when he says O'Reilly isn't demanding $5 million a year. Again, the fact the two sides have failed to reach some sort of middle ground is as much on the Avs as it is O'Reilly. And yes, for it to have dragged out this far despite the fact that the lineup has more holes in it by the day is most certainly pride on the Avs part as well.

Simply put, the Avs are hurting themselves more than they're sticking it to O'Reilly's camp. They painted themselves into a corner with the moves they've made and don't have nearly as firm ground to stand on as Montreal and Dallas did. And it looks like Dallas more or less caved anyway. Montreal had the luxury of still being able to ice a very good team without Subban. The Avs have no such advantage.
O'Reilly's agent said that he wasn't demanding $5m on a short-term deal. He actually pretty much said that is what they were asking for on a deal that ate some UFA time.

I totally disagree that the Avs have painted themselves into the corner on this. They have nearly all the leverage. They have ROR's rights until he is 27 or has 7 years of service. They have two top 6 centers in Stastny and Duchene. Mitchell is serviceable as a #3 center (if Sacco would ever put him back there ). 4th line centers are just not that important in the grand scheme of things. Olver, Malone, or Sgarbossa are plenty good enough for that role even if not ideal.

Really the Avs were a fringe playoff team to begin with, and that is probably gone by the wayside now with Downie and Landeskog out. ROR in or out of the lineup really isn't the difference between the current roster (including Downie and Landeskog being out) making and not making the playoffs. This team isn't even close to being a contender. So, if we are not going to win the cup, what exactly is pushing the Avs to cave? If we were the Kings and it was Kopitar holding out, we would be caving. But we are a fringe playoff team where ROR won't make a big difference on the success of this team this year.

henchman24 is online now  
Old
02-05-2013, 05:47 PM
  #471
Pierce Hawthorne
Formerly Avsare1
 
Pierce Hawthorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Caverns of Draconis
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,346
vCash: 500
Well, with the way things are going this season, we could have this to look forward too next year:

McGinn - Duchene - PAPAPAPAPAPAPAP
Landeskog - Oreilly - Downie
Jones - Stastny - Mitchell
McCleod - Olver - Bordeleau


Jones - EJ
Wilson - Barrie
Hejda - Zanon

Varly


That's a really deep Offense, and a much better Defense.

For now, lets ride the roller coaster. Either Oreilly signs soon and we turn this years ship around before its to late. Or we suck for another 39 games until the light at the end of the tunnel in Jones/McKinnon/Druin/Barkov/etc.

Pierce Hawthorne is online now  
Old
02-05-2013, 05:49 PM
  #472
henchman24
If and if...
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 19,547
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatriated_texan View Post
I get what you are saying and a first class team that treats all of its players with respect and dignity wouldn't view things this way but seriously...this is not negotiations. If it was negotiations there would be no restriction to the free agency. The whole purpose of restricted free agency is to allow teams to keep their costs down on young players. That is the team's right...much like it is the player's right to not sign and play in the NHL as a restricted free agent or their right to run, not walk, not jog but run like hell once they become an unrestricted free agent.

Both parties are absolutely within their rights here. It's a shame. I also no longer believe the AVs are a first class organization and that it will become difficult for them to attract top end talent via free-agency in the near future.
As more and more time goes by I am starting to believe this is the case. I really hope this is wrong though.

henchman24 is online now  
Old
02-05-2013, 06:07 PM
  #473
RockLobster
Moderator
Caps PO Bandwagon
 
RockLobster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas
Country: Germany
Posts: 20,092
vCash: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatriated_texan View Post
I get what you are saying and a first class team that treats all of its players with respect and dignity wouldn't view things this way but seriously...this is not negotiations. If it was negotiations there would be no restriction to the free agency. The whole purpose of restricted free agency is to allow teams to keep their costs down on young players. That is the team's right...much like it is the player's right to not sign and play in the NHL as a restricted free agent or their right to run, not walk, not jog but run like hell once they become an unrestricted free agent.

Both parties are absolutely within their rights here. It's a shame. I also no longer believe the AVs are a first class organization and that it will become difficult for them to attract top end talent via free-agency in the near future.
I was beginning to believe that I was the only one who thought this. And I think that you raise an EXCELLENT point Ex-Tex

They treat their fans terribly, in my opinion, when compared to other teams around the league. The put products on the ice that are inferior to teams they've iced in the past, yet either raise the prices for tickets, or keep them the same as when you WERE seeing a team of All-Stars.

Players who leave either have publically made derogatory statements about the organization, or they may not make derogatory statements, but something along the lines of "Well...uh...not sure, the fit just wasn't there...." or something along those lines.

It's a SHAME. Denver, while it's not as big as a LA, Chicago, NY or maybe even a Boston, is STILL a Major Metro city, a thriving Downtown scene (LoDo) and has GREAT places to live and shop and have a family (maybe not on Colfax Ave by the Casa Bonita lol).

But I firmly believe that since Kroenke has decided to slash payroll, this team has had a complete attitude change, and it's not for the better.

RockLobster is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 06:13 PM
  #474
avalanchuck
Registered User
 
avalanchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 499
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatriated_texan View Post
I get what you are saying and a first class team that treats all of its players with respect and dignity wouldn't view things this way but seriously...this is not negotiations. If it was negotiations there would be no restriction to the free agency. The whole purpose of restricted free agency is to allow teams to keep their costs down on young players. That is the team's right...much like it is the player's right to not sign and play in the NHL as a restricted free agent or their right to run, not walk, not jog but run like hell once they become an unrestricted free agent.

Both parties are absolutely within their rights here. It's a shame. I also no longer believe the AVs are a first class organization and that it will become difficult for them to attract top end talent via free-agency in the near future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
As more and more time goes by I am starting to believe this is the case. I really hope this is wrong though.
My feelings AND fears as well.

avalanchuck is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 06:13 PM
  #475
iceberg
Registered User
 
iceberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Regehr was born here
Country: Saudi Arabia
Posts: 2,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
As more and more time goes by I am starting to believe this is the case. I really hope this is wrong though.
First we have Peter Stastny's comments after the EJ trade, than Quincey's after he was traded and now the O'Reilly fiasco... I'd bet that from an outside perspective we are not an atractive destination anymore.

iceberg is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:05 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2016 All Rights Reserved.