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Old
02-05-2013, 08:06 PM
  #501
Freudian
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
How do you know he cleared? If he did then the NHL needs to get better tests as he clearly shouldn't have been playing.

In any case, there are many examples of the avs doing this type of thing. 06 Scatos gets rocked by Arnott has a shoulder injury returns to the game gets high sticked, leaves game again and after the game we find out he has a separated shoulder out for season. Holos gets a concussion misses a game comes back plays a couple if games with the avs gets sent down but doesn't play with Lake Erie because of the concussion. Mueller misses training camp but starts the season, plays 3 games in which he looked like crap, he mysteriously get a "torso" injury misses the next few months comes back and plays great. I could go on but it's clear to me either the avs don't take concussion seriously, they don't really give a **** about injuries or they're just incompetent. I don't know which is worse but it doesn't really matter.
Because the team said he did and tests are mandatory after all hits to the head.

Sometimes concussions (if that's what he has) doesn't manifest themselves at once. It sucks that he is injured and in hindsight it would have been better in this case for the team to have been extra cautionary and keep him out no matter what since it was a big hit but when the player clears the tests, feels ok and wants to play it may be hard to convince him he shouldn't.

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02-05-2013, 08:07 PM
  #502
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Do you have any idea what a concussion even is?
A torso injury?

As I said Freudian Landy is just one example the avs have a history of this much like the flyers but we are not at their level yet.

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Old
02-05-2013, 08:16 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
A torso injury?

As I said Freudian Landy is just one example the avs have a history of this much like the flyers but we are not at their level yet.
I figured a question like that was merited when someone posts about concussions with a sense of understanding. But anyone that knows anything about a concussion knows that they can manifest immediately, a day from now or a week from now. Just like you don't always get a bruise immediately, a concussion is not instantaneous.

That's without even getting into today's testing procedures. As I said during the game, five years ago Landy would have gone right back out the next game and gotten severely concussed. Fortunately the Avs were aware of his problems and held him back from further harm.

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02-05-2013, 08:18 PM
  #504
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How do you know he cleared? If he did then the NHL needs to get better tests as he clearly shouldn't have been playing.
Neurologists at Johns Hopkins or the Mayo Clinic wouldn't fare any better screening for concussions just minutes after a head injury either. Unfortunately league policy allows these guys to come back in to games when they understandably clear tests instead of holding them out for a couple days as a precaution.

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02-05-2013, 08:19 PM
  #505
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What about the Svatos, Holos and Mueller examples?

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02-05-2013, 08:24 PM
  #506
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A torso injury?

As I said Freudian Landy is just one example the avs have a history of this much like the flyers but we are not at their level yet.
I think that you are unfair with the Avs. All the recent injuries were more caused by some bad luck than by bad assessment. Honestly, do you really think that the Avs medical staff would send back on the ice a 19 years old captain, the face of this franchise if they thought he had a concussion? I'm sure that Landy was asking to go back on the ice, he wasn't forced. Concussion are really hard to assess especially right after a hit, and remember they had to assess him in the locker room, its not like they brought him to the hospital, had a couple CT scans and then declared "yeah you're good".

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02-05-2013, 08:25 PM
  #507
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What about the Svatos, Holos and Mueller examples?
Examples of what?

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02-05-2013, 08:26 PM
  #508
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What about the Svatos, Holos and Mueller examples?
Mueller? I'm pretty sure that Rob Blake is more to blame on that one

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02-05-2013, 08:27 PM
  #509
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When the player is symptom free for a while they get cleared. It doesn't mean the player is immune to getting hit and having more problems. It's fairly common for players deliberately/non deliberately withhold symptoms because they want to play.

The Holos situation was a bit weird, but remember he was in AHL with some minor concussion issues and then a spot opened up in NHL. It's possible his desire to get a shot with Avs led to him being a bit too eager to get back to playing.

It's not black and white. Avs aren't these slave drivers that throw injured players on the ice because they don't care about the well being of their players. Look at the time they've given Mueller/Hishon to recover. They have been very patient. It's possible Muller felt fine and had been symptom free at the start of the season and then he got dinged after a few games.

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02-05-2013, 08:35 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
When the player is symptom free for a while they get cleared. It doesn't mean the player is immune to getting hit and having more problems. It's fairly common for players deliberately/non deliberately withhold symptoms because they want to play.

The Holos situation was a bit weird, but remember he was in AHL with some minor concussion issues and then a spot opened up in NHL. It's possible his desire to get a shot with Avs led to him being a bit too eager to get back to playing.

It's not black and white. Avs aren't these slave drivers that throw injured players on the ice because they don't care about the well being of their players. Look at the time they've given Mueller/Hishon to recover. They have been very patient. It's possible Muller felt fine and had been symptom free at the start of the season and then he got dinged after a few games.
I thought Holos got the concussion when he played with the avs then got sent. I guess it's not all black and white tho.

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Old
02-05-2013, 08:37 PM
  #511
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Quote:
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Because the team said he did and tests are mandatory after all hits to the head.

Sometimes concussions (if that's what he has) doesn't manifest themselves at once. It sucks that he is injured and in hindsight it would have been better in this case for the team to have been extra cautionary and keep him out no matter what since it was a big hit but when the player clears the tests, feels ok and wants to play it may be hard to convince him he shouldn't.
You are right. A good example is Eager for the Oilers after his fight. He said this week in an interview that the concussion symptoms only started when he was in the plane after the game. He then miss a few games.

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02-05-2013, 09:00 PM
  #512
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What should they have done differently? Maybe communicated with guys like Bruno and Lappy a bit more when they became free agents? By communicated with them I mean letting them know before hand that they appreciate what they've done for the organization but it's time to move on. Letting them walk was the right decision. I think some people were just upset because Dater said something about the Avs playing hardball and not giving those guys a reason to stay. The team was rebuilding and slashing payroll (I guess they still are) so it made no sense to give a 36 year old Lappy or a 35 year old Bruno three year extensions. If they were upset by that, so be it.

Flash and Mueller had their injury problems and the Avs stood by Mueller for a couple of years. They paid him, took him to a bunch of different doctors, and tried different rehab methods to get him healthy again. Then they decided to go in a different (and safer) direction and signed PAP to replace him. It would be one thing if they released him right after he suffered his second concussion but that didn't happen. They helped him the best they could.

I don't know why people even bring players like Hendricks and Winnik up. They were each here for two seasons and when they were set to become UFAs, they wanted a lot more than what the Avs wanted to pay a couple of bottom six grinders.

Players who have done a lot for the organization and respect the organization get treated with a lot of respect by the Avs.

The main issue with the Avs is that they aren't very competitive and they aren't winning. Once that changes, the reputation of the team will change for the better and they'll attract more free agents. I doubt players will care how the Avs treated some aging role players 6 years ago.
Exactly...how you communicate to players, even as you are allowing them to enter unrestricted free agency is important. If you want to allure top end free agents in the future you probably should have three things going for you as a club:
1. Cap space and a big check
2. A winning culture
3. Reputation for treating players well

I would think you need at least 2 out of 3 to land top end free agents.

The way the AVs let Bruno enter free agency without even a phone call to tell him what was going on became public knowledge and believe it or not stuff like that factors into people's thought processes when faced with offers from multiple teams. I never said they should've kept either or both (personally I think they should've kept Lappy but was pretty meh on Bruno)...I implied they were dicks in how they handled them at the end of their contracts in Denver.

As for Flash and Mules...again health concerns (maybe.) Both made comments to the fact that they weren't really told anything by management and that July 1st just sorta rolled around. Again...dicks do **** like that. That is not the behavior of what I would call a first class organization. Again, agree all you want with the decision to let them go but how they handled it was wrong. Also...in these two cases we had relatively young talented offensively gifted players when these types of players are let go the fans should be given some sort of an explanation. It could be as simple as a paragraph press release
"The Avs let Flash enter UFA over concerns of his health and fears that being based out of a high altitude environment could produce long term risk. We would like to thank him for his service and dedication to our team and the community. We wish him the best of luck in his future endevours. To our fans we want to express our gratitude and assure them we will work hard to replace the offense lost in Flash's departure."
See this **** isn't hard but you have to make at least a half-assed gesture to show the fans you care as much as they do.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:08 PM
  #513
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It could be as simple as a paragraph press release
"The Avs let Flash enter UFA over concerns of his health and fears that being based out of a high altitude environment could produce long term risk. We would like to thank him for his service and dedication to our team and the community. We wish him the best of luck in his future endevours. To our fans we want to express our gratitude and assure them we will work hard to replace the offense lost in Flash's departure."
See this **** isn't hard but you have to make at least a half-assed gesture to show the fans you care as much as they do.
I can guarantee that would create much more anger from the player considering he and his agent claim there were no health risks. Avs potentially screwing up him finding a new team wouldn't have gone over well at all.

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02-05-2013, 09:25 PM
  #514
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That is what this thread is turning into. haha.

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Old
02-05-2013, 10:53 PM
  #515
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hahahah I'll ride this train as a former ticketholder who's spent over $100K of my money on this team.

1) Not a first class organization. At all.

2) A first class organization produces a good product ON the ice and OFF the ice. Hence why the NFL is brainstorming any way that the fan can get as much of an experience at the game as on a couch.

3) Pepsi Center's outdated. Needs upgrade.

4) Putting new HD screens in the top corners of the arena where no one looks is not an upgrade.

5) # of service attendants at the game has drastically reduced which has led to poor service quality....very poor. Some games I had to wait 45 mins or whole periods for food. (sounds minor and ticky tacky, but when I pay $100+ a game, I expect service damnit...not to sit and wait 20 mins for popcorn)

6) Avs have no marketing

7) Avs have no communication to fans via media outlets

8) If Avs even came out and explained strategy, they'd probably prevent further distaste from fans out there. All we are hearing is O'Reilly's side of frustration, which slants judgement towards ROR.

9) Despite my optimism, Sakic is just as quiet of a leader in the front office as he was as a player. I had hoped he would have opened up a bit. Mice fart louder than Joe Sakic. It makes me doubt he is fit for the role and will just end up another inbred former Av failure. I get that media isn't his "job" or "focus", but compare Sakic to John Elway. It's not Elway's job either.

10) I haven't seen a single piece of advertising, programming, statement, or any type of media release from the Colorado Avalanche with any regard as to an apology about the lockout, a message asking for fans to come back to the game, or any reconciliation act whatsoever. The only marketing plug I have seen is - Hockey Is Back.....Which without any sincerity means "Hockey is back - time for you to get your a$$ back down to the arena and give us money again".

<steps off the soapbox.>

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02-05-2013, 11:20 PM
  #516
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Dater says they're talking again:

Quote:
In asking the proper authorities tonight, it is confirmed: talks are still ongoing with Ryan O’Reilly. There was little to no contact for several days, but O’Reilly’s agents – Mark Guy and Pat Morris of the Newport Sports Agency in Ontario – did speak with Avalanche management today – presumably Greg Sherman.

That’s all I have for now. Don’t know if it was positive or negative, the talks. But I don’t think there’s any question that it’s a positive that talks are still happening at all. By my accounts, they had been very chilly previously. They still may be. Obviously, there is no deal yet.
http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013...tinuing/12478/

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02-05-2013, 11:38 PM
  #517
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Hoping for some good news. Ready to be done with this uncertainty.

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02-05-2013, 11:41 PM
  #518
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Hoping for some good news. Ready to be done with this uncertainty.
Same here.

Just saw a video of Kypreos, Morrison, and Shannon talking about O'Reilly at the intermission and they say nothing has changed.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/video/latest...players/page/2

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02-06-2013, 07:01 AM
  #519
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Pleeeease be over soon.


One way or another.

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Old
02-06-2013, 07:03 AM
  #520
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Need to get Radar back.

Then in the GDT's we can start to se ROROROROROR and PAPAPAPAPAPAP every time they score.

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02-06-2013, 11:43 AM
  #521
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This is like a mini-lockout. Everyone waiting for news, all we know is "talks are on-going", then the talks blow up, everyone panics, then silence for a few days, the darkness, then a tweet! A tweet! They're talking!!

I bet mediators and marathon negotiations come into play in the coming days.

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02-06-2013, 11:56 AM
  #522
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The upcoming 5 day game break could, key word "could", be pivotal to their negotiations with Ryan. It will give Sherman and Co. time to evalue the team through their first 10 games of the season and allow for more extensive resumption of negotiation....

Or nothing could happen

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Old
02-06-2013, 12:40 PM
  #523
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Yeah, I don't think anything happens unless the ROR camp bends/folds.

I don't see Avs FO giving an inch. They made what they consider a fair offer (or two) and aren't going to back down.

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02-06-2013, 12:45 PM
  #524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qurpiz View Post
This is like a mini-lockout. Everyone waiting for news, all we know is "talks are on-going", then the talks blow up, everyone panics, then silence for a few days, the darkness, then a tweet! A tweet! They're talking!!

I bet mediators and marathon negotiations come into play in the coming days.
Unfortunately, you're 100% right.

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02-06-2013, 12:45 PM
  #525
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Yeah, I don't think anything happens unless the ROR camp bends/folds.

I don't see Avs FO giving an inch. They made what they consider a fair offer (or two) and aren't going to back down.
Well, the ROR camp must be bending a little, otherwise they wouldn't be talking. I imagine the Avs left it as "This is the offer, it's final, take it or leave it". If they're talking again, it probably means ROR's camp is trying to make the offer work or at least something much closer to that offer than before.

I doubt it's like...Avs: 3.5 Million. ROR: 5 Million...don't talk for 2 weeks...ROR: So...how about 5 million?

Doesn't make sense that way.

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