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The Luongo Thread: Cory Who?

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02-01-2013, 02:20 AM
  #226
timw33
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Would definitely like Shore ++ if we can't get Bjugstad + from FLA.

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02-01-2013, 02:24 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by gongshowmonkey View Post
does the impact of less pressure on Luongo enable him to perform better?
It seems that he has struggled out of the gate in recent years, and looking at it now he seems more composed and relaxed.
I honestly think its because he practiced with a goalie coach that worked on improving what he does during the lockout (Allaire) rather than a goalie coach who tried to change the way he plays (Clark, then Melanson). I just hope they bring in Allaire to work with Luongo full time if we decide to keep Luongo.

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02-01-2013, 02:25 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I in the Eye wanted Shore + Petrovic + 1st

DTS has posted deals with both Goc + Petrovic OR Shore

I've posted about Shore many times.

Vankiller Whale has made many proposals that include shore, and many other names.


That's just from memory alone. Shore is not an unknown around here. If he was, definitely not anymore after his AHL stint this year.
Yeah, I knew there were some people. I think VKW prefers Petrovic and Howden to Shore though. We've discussed it a couple times. As far as I can tell most people still seem to only be interested in the "help now" type players or blue chippers and not so much the B prospects, which why I prefaced my post as such.

If we could get Shore, Clemmensen and a 1st for Lu I'd be thrilled, but I don't see them giving up that much. However if we could get that and deal Ballard to NYI for one of their NHL ready PMD prospects and another pick we would be looking really good for next year.

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Booth-Kesler-Schroeder (looks great on paper at least)
Burrows-Shore-Hansen
Higgins-Lapierre-Weise (Higgins moves up and down the lineup)
Volpatti

Hamhuis-Edler
Garrison-Bieksa
Donovan/Ness-Tanev
Alberts-Vandermeer

Schneider
Clemmensen

I like the idea of having 6 forwards on the roster who can play center, and Burrows and Schroeder on the wing gives us that. Higgins can either play with Booth and Kesler or Burrows and Hansen if one of the kids are struggling. We aren't relying on an unproven Lack making the leap to the NHL after coming off a major surgery. Jensen can sit and develop for a year in the AHL without the pressure of needing to immediately contribute. And we add a couple picks to fill out our prospect pool, along with youth in Shore and Donovan/Ness. I also checked and that roster fits under the cap with my projections by about a million.


Last edited by StringerBell: 02-01-2013 at 02:34 AM.
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Old
02-01-2013, 03:59 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Yeah, I knew there were some people. I think VKW prefers Petrovic and Howden to Shore though. We've discussed it a couple times. As far as I can tell most people still seem to only be interested in the "help now" type players or blue chippers and not so much the B prospects, which why I prefaced my post as such.

If we could get Shore, Clemmensen and a 1st for Lu I'd be thrilled, but I don't see them giving up that much. However if we could get that and deal Ballard to NYI for one of their NHL ready PMD prospects and another pick we would be looking really good for next year.

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Booth-Kesler-Schroeder (looks great on paper at least)
Burrows-Shore-Hansen
Higgins-Lapierre-Weise (Higgins moves up and down the lineup)
Volpatti

Hamhuis-Edler
Garrison-Bieksa
Donovan/Ness-Tanev
Alberts-Vandermeer

Schneider
Clemmensen

I like the idea of having 6 forwards on the roster who can play center, and Burrows and Schroeder on the wing gives us that. Higgins can either play with Booth and Kesler or Burrows and Hansen if one of the kids are struggling. We aren't relying on an unproven Lack making the leap to the NHL after coming off a major surgery. Jensen can sit and develop for a year in the AHL without the pressure of needing to immediately contribute. And we add a couple picks to fill out our prospect pool, along with youth in Shore and Donovan/Ness. I also checked and that roster fits under the cap with my projections by about a million.


I don't think FLA gives up the 1st with the way they're going. They would have to be mid-pack for it to be plausible.


A lot also depends on Weiss. If he re-signs, they could move Shore more easily. If he doesn't, then I think Tallon puts up Petrovic before he does Shore.


I'm _not_ one of the "help now" crowd. I want, have always wanted, futures. Specifically, because I think our pipeline is weaker than others do. So I'm hoping Gillis replenishes it somewhat with a good deal. Further, I don't expect Bjugstad coming back.


For me, it comes down to the pick. If a deal goes down with FLA at the draft, I can see them giving up a prospect, but that 1st will be very hard to get depending on where they finish, which is why I hope they start doing better and fast.

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02-01-2013, 04:38 AM
  #230
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Florida fan here. I wouldn't give up Shore for Luongo. Luongo's contract is horrible and Shore has been really solid for the Panthers. He's also a stud at taking faceoffs.
We've also got Markstrom coming up so we really don't need Luongo, hopefully he gets traded to the Leafs instead.

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02-01-2013, 06:49 AM
  #231
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I honestly think its because he practiced with a goalie coach that worked on improving what he does during the lockout (Allaire) rather than a goalie coach who tried to change the way he plays (Clark, then Melanson). I just hope they bring in Allaire to work with Luongo full time if we decide to keep Luongo.
Thank you. The reason he's playing so well is because of the commitment he's made to improving his game as his abilities change.

It has nothing to do with his ability to deal with the pressure here. That's changed as he's gotten older. And only slightly really. The self-deprecating humour has always been there, most Canucks fans were just too pissed off to see it after a couple playoff losses.

Canucks fans, at the worst of times, are the best example of what-have-you-done-for-me-lately in sports.

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02-01-2013, 08:54 AM
  #232
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Florida fan here. I wouldn't give up Shore for Luongo. Luongo's contract is horrible and Shore has been really solid for the Panthers. He's also a stud at taking faceoffs.
We've also got Markstrom coming up so we really don't need Luongo, hopefully he gets traded to the Leafs instead.
That sounds weird...."i hope the elite goalie gets traded to our competition"....thanks i guess. Problem is, we can't afford him.

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02-01-2013, 09:04 AM
  #233
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Florida fan here. I wouldn't give up Shore for Luongo. Luongo's contract is horrible and Shore has been really solid for the Panthers. He's also a stud at taking faceoffs.
We've also got Markstrom coming up so we really don't need Luongo, hopefully he gets traded to the Leafs instead.
1) What NHL GM, outside of Holland, is likely still going to be employed by the SAME team 6 or 7 years from now?
2) Panthers are hardly a 'cap ceiling' team; so his cap hit - which is decent by NHL comparables - is irrevelant to them. Would've been different had you said, the Panthers aren't financially strong enough to handle a heavily front-loaded deal.

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02-01-2013, 09:08 AM
  #234
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You have to assume that if Fla deals their 1st, its going to be conditional .... no one wants to have another Kessel trade disaster on their hands.

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02-01-2013, 09:29 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Hockeycast View Post
Florida fan here. I wouldn't give up Shore for Luongo. Luongo's contract is horrible and Shore has been really solid for the Panthers. He's also a stud at taking faceoffs.
We've also got Markstrom coming up so we really don't need Luongo, hopefully he gets traded to the Leafs instead.


Yes an elite goalie for Drew F-ing Shore is overkill. Obviously a Panther fan. and why would you want an elite goalie in your division That's like me wishing Rinne was on the Oilers.

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02-01-2013, 09:35 AM
  #236
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This move won't happen until the draft.

It's not an in-season trade that is easy to make, as much as pains some of you, and most of the media....if the offers don't help, ie. aren't an upgrade on what he have elsewhere on the roster there is NO EFFIN' point to making that deal now.

We have a significant advantage over other teams with two capable starters, yeah, that advantage goes away in the playoffs...oh well, consensus says we haven't had any offers that are close....I wish the trade deadline would come and go, so the questions would subside until the offseason.

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02-01-2013, 09:35 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post


Yes an elite goalie for Drew F-ing Shore is overkill. Obviously a Panther fan. and why would you want an elite goalie in your division That's like me wishing Rinne was on the Oilers.
And not willing to trade Chris Tanev for Shea Weber

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02-01-2013, 09:51 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
1) What NHL GM, outside of Holland, is likely still going to be employed by the SAME team 6 or 7 years from now?
2) Panthers are hardly a 'cap ceiling' team; so his cap hit - which is decent by NHL comparables - is irrevelant to them. Would've been different had you said, the Panthers aren't financially strong enough to handle a heavily front-loaded deal.
Good point. Does not Luongo's salary drop below the cap hit soon? Would that not be attractive to a team like Florida?

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02-01-2013, 09:58 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
1) What NHL GM, outside of Holland, is likely still going to be employed by the SAME team 6 or 7 years from now?
2) Panthers are hardly a 'cap ceiling' team; so his cap hit - which is decent by NHL comparables - is irrevelant to them. Would've been different had you said, the Panthers aren't financially strong enough to handle a heavily front-loaded deal.
As a budget team and not a cap ceiling team Florida doesn't see the cap hit, they only see $6.7M salary for the next 4(?) seasons. As a cap team you sort of get used to unlimited dollars and limited cap space, but remember for the other half of the league having a high cap and low dollars is more desirable. Luongo is probably more attractive to Florida in 2018.

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02-01-2013, 10:08 AM
  #240
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So two players who haven't played a single playoff are now prized possessions and arguably the best goalie of this decade is considered trash. Oh okay going by that logic Ovechkin is worth less than Jensen or Gaunce ?
OV, considering his cap hit v production, just might be worth a lot less than we know. If he is not scoring, what else does he provide to his team?

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02-01-2013, 10:08 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Luongo's contract was so good so as to be made illegal.


Only on HF are a prospect C and G worth more than a 10+ year elite goaltending talent.






Can you tell me why George Richards states that FLA was internally preparing for Luongo to return to FLA on June 4th? Or why Tallon only recently alluded that talks were ongoing? That they are still talking?


You could probably use an update on the information, forget the poor analogy.

Stumbling block is likely Florida needing to ship dollars on bad contracts back/out. They have a budget and I doubt adding $5+ million to it is easy. They'd have to assume they are contending in the next 5 or so years for this to make sense. At about $50/ticket that is a lot of extra tickets you need to sell.. about 2500 per game. Also Tallon is very shrewd and looking at Vancouver's cap problems this summer plus Backstrom possibly hitting the market as well.

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02-01-2013, 10:23 AM
  #242
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Stumbling block is likely Florida needing to ship dollars on bad contracts back/out. They have a budget and I doubt adding $5+ million to it is easy. They'd have to assume they are contending in the next 5 or so years for this to make sense. At about $50/ticket that is a lot of extra tickets you need to sell.. about 2500 per game. Also Tallon is very shrewd and looking at Vancouver's cap problems this summer plus Backstrom possibly hitting the market as well.
It's disgusting to watch Florida home games on TV, those people could give two turds about hockey. I would say 90% of the seats behind the player benches (where lots of people love to sit...not me, I like the corners) are empty every game I've seen this year. And this is coming off a division championship.

It sickens me. Florida and Phoenix should NOT have NHL teams. PERIOD. People can go on about TV markets, well wasn't it last year that showed infomercials and Full House re-runs got more viewership than Panthers games in their own market. Bloody joke.

edit* Not to mention they can't hit the cap floor without handing 2nd liner contracts to 3rd and 4th liners....just bad for the league as a whole.

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02-01-2013, 10:25 AM
  #243
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plus Backstrom possibly hitting the market as well.
If Luongo's actual salary (not cap hit) is the main stumbling block (and it may very well be), I seriously doubt the Panthers are going to have *ANY* realistic chance at Backstrom. If he could be had for cheap, the Wild would just re-up him (they didn't commit to *two huge* contracts in the off-season with plan B goaltending - Harding has injury issues/never been a NHL starter/has hardly played all that well this season).

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02-01-2013, 10:33 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
If Luongo's actual salary (not cap hit) is the main stumbling block (and it may very well be), I seriously doubt the Panthers are going to have *ANY* realistic chance at Backstrom. If he could be had for cheap, the Wild would just re-up him (they didn't commit to *two huge* contracts in the off-season with plan B goaltending - Harding has injury issues/never been a NHL starter/has hardly played all that well this season).
Any goalie (as good as Luongo) coming available via free-agency this summer would demand a greater cap-hit than Luongo. Plus, Luongo's salary decreases over time, but his cap hit stays at 5.3. That is attractive to all bottom salary teams.

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02-01-2013, 10:40 AM
  #245
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Stumbling block is likely Florida needing to ship dollars on bad contracts back/out. They have a budget and I doubt adding $5+ million to it is easy. They'd have to assume they are contending in the next 5 or so years for this to make sense. At about $50/ticket that is a lot of extra tickets you need to sell.. about 2500 per game. Also Tallon is very shrewd and looking at Vancouver's cap problems this summer plus Backstrom possibly hitting the market as well.


No doubt the stumbling block is probably money. Which means, it's not assets. So Tallon and Gillis could already have a deal in place but it's Gillis and not Tallon that is delaying things due to not wanting to take on unnecessary salary.


I'm looking forward to what happens with Weiss. If they can give him a 5m dollar contract, then you know the salary issues are bogus. If they have to let him walk, then I think you see Gillis be more willing to accept a salary dump in return.

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02-01-2013, 10:58 AM
  #246
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Yes an elite goalie for Drew F-ing Shore is overkill. Obviously a Panther fan. and why would you want an elite goalie in your division That's like me wishing Rinne was on the Oilers.
I don't think that's what he meant. I think he meant he hopes luongo goes to Toronto so everyone lives happily ever after.

Shore has an amazing future and is killing it so far; a player and position we desperately need.
Theodore is very serviceable for this yrs sprint, and then our fate is in Markstrom.

So , no I and many don't believe the trade would happen straight up, due to circumstances and future; not that TODAY luongo isn't more valuable, as clearly he is.

Cheers.

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02-01-2013, 11:02 AM
  #247
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Are people really trying to suggest that cap-floor type teams are going to be upset at the prospect of being stuck with Luongo's cap hit if he retires? Really, hockey fans? Really?!? That's what you're going with? These teams like the floor so much they should be owned by ROOMBA.

/Seth Meyers

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02-01-2013, 11:10 AM
  #248
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Are people really trying to suggest that cap-floor type teams are going to be upset at the prospect of being stuck with Luongo's cap hit if he retires? Really, hockey fans? Really?!? That's what you're going with? These teams like the floor so much they should be owned by ROOMBA.

/Seth Meyers
Agreed. Florida wants players on ELC's and older guys with contracts exactly like Luongo's. They don't want any players in the middle. Tallon will trade Weiss, just like he did Ballard, Booth, etc. His actual team cap is below the floor, even though on the league's books it appears to be at, or above, it.

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02-01-2013, 11:11 AM
  #249
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It's disgusting to watch Florida home games on TV, those people could give two turds about hockey. I would say 90% of the seats behind the player benches (where lots of people love to sit...not me, I like the corners) are empty every game I've seen this year. And this is coming off a division championship.

It sickens me. Florida and Phoenix should NOT have NHL teams. PERIOD. People can go on about TV markets, well wasn't it last year that showed infomercials and Full House re-runs got more viewership than Panthers games in their own market. Bloody joke.

edit* Not to mention they can't hit the cap floor without handing 2nd liner contracts to 3rd and 4th liners....just bad for the league as a whole.
Those seats behind the bench you are seeing empty are the ridiculous "club red" seats, which began this year. They are $20,000 a piece, all inclusive for every game concert etc. the food runs all game long. Its a new and sad trend. Biggest problem is fans watch form the suite buffet area. Turn on a ny Yankee game, seats around the bases almost always empty.

Attendance last night was almost 16000. It's a healthy franchise, run by a very healthy parent org, in a beautiful arena. Good core of fans despite years of suffering and many distractions here in paradise. Sorry it's here to stay thru 2030.

Cheers

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02-01-2013, 11:17 AM
  #250
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If the Panthers go into next season with confirmed career backup Scott Clemmensen and Jacob Markstrom (he of 6 career NHL starts) then Dale Tallon is either much dumber than everyone thinks he is or much earlier in his rebuild plans than everyone thinks.

That being said it is certainly much more the exception than the rule for a blue chip goaltender to be brought up slowly over a period of several years under a high end starter.

If the Panthers do seriously pursue Roberto Luongo it will be because they think Markstrom is years away from the NHL - let alone being a 60 game starter - or because they aren't convinced he will ever get there.

To be honest if I was running that team, despite a handful of high end young players and another handful of pretty good prospects, I would still see them as asset poor and I would think long and hard about trying to get another two or three serviceable seasons out of Jose Theodore rather than surrendering a prospect, a high pick and maybe a roster player for Luongo. I don't know if it would be the right move but if the Panthers want to fill out an NHL roster with decent, cheap players they have to be very careful to keep their cupboards as full as possible.

That being said as a Canucks fan I think they should wait for the season to end and then give us Drew Shore, Shawn Matthias and their first round pick for Lou.

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