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Old
02-01-2013, 11:17 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Those seats behind the bench you are seeing empty are the ridiculous "club red" seats, which began this year. They are $20,000 a piece, all inclusive for every game concert etc. the food runs all game long. Its a new and sad trend. Biggest problem is fans watch form the suite buffet area. Turn on a ny Yankee game, seats around the bases almost always empty.

Attendance last night was almost 16000. It's a healthy franchise, run by a very healthy parent org, in a beautiful arena. Good core of fans despite years of suffering and many distractions here in paradise. Sorry it's here to stay thru 2030.

Cheers
It's a healthy arena not franchise, the actual Panthers bleed red in the balance books. The only reason the franchise still exists is the fact they own the building and it is one of the best revue buildings in all of hockey (based on concerts/events).

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02-01-2013, 11:21 AM
  #252
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Attendance last night was almost 16000. It's a healthy franchise, run by a very healthy parent org, in a beautiful arena. Good core of fans despite years of suffering and many distractions here in paradise. Sorry it's here to stay thru 2030.

Cheers
I heard there are also season tickes for 168 bucks, and that comes with free parking! It sounds like a good place for a hockey fan to retire.

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02-01-2013, 11:24 AM
  #253
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I heard there are also season tickes for 168 bucks, and that comes with free parking! It sounds like a good place for a hockey fan to retire.
U are absolutely right. There are upper end zones for that price. And it is and many do.

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02-01-2013, 11:24 AM
  #254
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Turn on a ny Yankee game, seats around the bases almost always empty.
Yankees get a ton of money from television revenues/PPVs/etc., They aren't really relying that much on gate revenue like most NHL teams are. In the NFL, the Detroit Lions could play to a completely empty arena and still make money because of the same reason.

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02-01-2013, 11:30 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Those seats behind the bench you are seeing empty are the ridiculous "club red" seats, which began this year. They are $20,000 a piece, all inclusive for every game concert etc. the food runs all game long. Its a new and sad trend. Biggest problem is fans watch form the suite buffet area. Turn on a ny Yankee game, seats around the bases almost always empty.

Attendance last night was almost 16000. It's a healthy franchise, run by a very healthy parent org, in a beautiful arena. Good core of fans despite years of suffering and many distractions here in paradise. Sorry it's here to stay thru 2030.

Cheers
I call BS on that 16,000 number, all those southern franchises fib on that #.

It's here to stay, doesn't mean its good for the league. Don't want to take this thread to far optic though, glad they have guys who enjoy it like you....because that is an utter disgrace to watch on TV, the seats you see in almost every screen shot are empty. It's really sad.

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02-01-2013, 11:31 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Yankees get a ton of money from television revenues/PPVs/etc., They aren't really relying that much on gate revenue like most NHL teams are. In the NFL, the Detroit Lions could play to a completely empty arena and still make money because of the same reason.
I agree 100% my point was simply to explain the idiocy that is club red, and give analogy of the emptiness appearance, not the revenue stream.

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02-01-2013, 11:34 AM
  #257
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I call BS on that 16,000 number, all those southern franchises fib on that #.

It's here to stay, doesn't mean its good for the league. Don't want to take this thread to far optic though, glad they have guys who enjoy it like you....because that is an utter disgrace to watch on TV, the seats you see in almost every screen shot are empty. It's really sad.
Everyone fibs on that number.

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02-01-2013, 11:34 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I call BS on that 16,000 number, all those southern franchises fib on that #.

It's here to stay, doesn't mean its good for the league. Don't want to take this thread to far optic though, glad they have guys who enjoy it like you....because that is an utter disgrace to watch on TV, the seats you see in almost every screen shot are empty. It's really sad.
We agree. Worse is 600 long time sth's were relocated. We are pissed in that regard too. All about $, apparently it's making $.

Sorry for my role too in hijacking thread.

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02-01-2013, 11:38 AM
  #259
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Everyone fibs on that number.
Maybe so, but a fib of a couple 100 seats vs a couple 1000 is a quite a variation.

About Luongo, should be an exciting draft day move

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02-01-2013, 11:40 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
I heard there are also season tickes for 168 bucks, and that comes with free parking! It sounds like a good place for a hockey fan to retire.
http://www.surreyeagles.ca/leagues/c...065&pageid=172


It's sad that its cheaper for an NHL season ticket in Florida than it is for a Child/Youth season ticket to junior 'A' hockey on the lower mainland.

That's enough about ticket prices from me now.

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02-01-2013, 11:45 AM
  #261
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Everyone fibs on that number.
Vancouver Grizzlies had their attendance numbers inflated because of "giveaways" and other similiar promos. I can see why sports teams do it (to get potential future customers).

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02-01-2013, 11:57 AM
  #262
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Here's the issue. It's Value vs Need. Very similar to the draft where a team has to consider whether they draft for their specific needs? or the best player available?

Luongo is a tremendous goalie. Nobody can deny it, he's world-class. He has a lot of value.

The Panthers have a very good goalie in Theodore and a solid back-up. There's also Markstrom tearing it up in the AHL and a possible contender for a spot on next year's roster. The NEED for Luongo just isn't there, despite what his value might be. Florida only has so many assets and we wan't to use those assets where they'll have the most impact. Upgrading from Theo or Clem to Luongo just isn't going to have the same impact on our success as keeping Bjugstad, Shore, Petrovic, or any of our other prospects.

Really, the only basis Vancouver and it's fans have for Luongo going to Florida is because he wants to. I'm sorry, but whatever clause Lu has is with Gillis... not Tallon.

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02-01-2013, 11:58 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
We agree. Worse is 600 long time sth's were relocated. We are pissed in that regard too. All about $, apparently it's making $.

Sorry for my role too in hijacking thread.
I think the economics of the Panthers are relevant to this thread, considering money is one of the obstacles many bring up when the idea of Luongo going to the Panthers is raised.

That being said, 'it disgusts me that _________ have a team' is not relevant here.

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02-01-2013, 12:02 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Luis Gudbrunson View Post
The Panthers have a very good goalie in Theodore and a solid back-up. There's also Markstrom tearing it up in the AHL and a possible contender for a spot on next year's roster. The NEED for Luongo just isn't there, despite what his value might be. Florida only has so many assets and we wan't to use those assets where they'll have the most impact. Upgrading from Theo or Clem to Luongo just isn't going to have the same impact on our success as keeping Bjugstad, Shore, Petrovic, or any of our other prospects.
I just said basically the same thing but I will say that I do think Luongo has value to the Panthers franchise in a way none of these others (Theodore, Markstrom, Shore, etc) do.

I mean that from a marketing perspective, but I also think that Luongo is a more positive influence on his team both on the ice and in the room that Theodore is and Markstrom might ever be (although coming up under an elite player might help him along the way - we saw this with the Sedins and Ryan Kesler playing with Mats Sundin for a stretch).

I don't know if that has enough value to part with say, Drew Shore and a first round pick - but if the Panthers can keep a guy like Weiss in the fold for a reasonable price it goes a long way towards making that price a bit easier to swallow.

I could see the reasoning behind going in either direction, frankly.

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02-01-2013, 12:04 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Those seats behind the bench you are seeing empty are the ridiculous "club red" seats, which began this year. They are $20,000 a piece, all inclusive for every game concert etc. the food runs all game long. Its a new and sad trend. Biggest problem is fans watch form the suite buffet area. Turn on a ny Yankee game, seats around the bases almost always empty.

Attendance last night was almost 16000. It's a healthy franchise, run by a very healthy parent org, in a beautiful arena. Good core of fans despite years of suffering and many distractions here in paradise. Sorry it's here to stay thru 2030.

Cheers
Has the scoreboard been updated? That was my only disappointment when I watched the Canucks vs. Panthers a few years ago. I loved the location of the arena. Everything else was quite nice. However, I will say that I felt the arena, the experience, the location, and the scoreboard in Tampa Bay was better.

I laugh at all the fans that call into the local radio when discussion about hockey markets and say the Florida teams need to go... I know they haven't actually watched a game in either arena/market. I had a great time. Both are really nice places to watch a game.

Full disclosure: the Canucks lost both games. I also believe Luc Bourdon scored his last goal in the NHL vs. Tampa Bay.

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02-01-2013, 12:13 PM
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis Gudbrunson View Post
Here's the issue. It's Value vs Need. Very similar to the draft where a team has to consider whether they draft for their specific needs? or the best player available?

Luongo is a tremendous goalie. Nobody can deny it, he's world-class. He has a lot of value.

The Panthers have a very good goalie in Theodore and a solid back-up. There's also Markstrom tearing it up in the AHL and a possible contender for a spot on next year's roster. The NEED for Luongo just isn't there, despite what his value might be. Florida only has so many assets and we wan't to use those assets where they'll have the most impact. Upgrading from Theo or Clem to Luongo just isn't going to have the same impact on our success as keeping Bjugstad, Shore, Petrovic, or any of our other prospects.

Really, the only basis Vancouver and it's fans have for Luongo going to Florida is because he wants to. I'm sorry, but whatever clause Lu has is with Gillis... not Tallon.
I agree actually.

The way the Panthers are built, you shouldn't be looking to contend just yet. In about 4-5 years is when the Panthers should be one of the top teams in the league, and by that time Markstrom would have had some experience as the number 1.

Florida just isn't that good of a fit for Luongo.

IMO, the best fit is probably between Chicago and Washington at this time.

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02-01-2013, 12:27 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Luis Gudbrunson View Post
Here's the issue. It's Value vs Need. Very similar to the draft where a team has to consider whether they draft for their specific needs? or the best player available?

Luongo is a tremendous goalie. Nobody can deny it, he's world-class. He has a lot of value.

The Panthers have a very good goalie in Theodore and a solid back-up. There's also Markstrom tearing it up in the AHL and a possible contender for a spot on next year's roster. The NEED for Luongo just isn't there, despite what his value might be. Florida only has so many assets and we wan't to use those assets where they'll have the most impact. Upgrading from Theo or Clem to Luongo just isn't going to have the same impact on our success as keeping Bjugstad, Shore, Petrovic, or any of our other prospects.

Really, the only basis Vancouver and it's fans have for Luongo going to Florida is because he wants to. I'm sorry, but whatever clause Lu has is with Gillis... not Tallon.
Lu would sell so many Jerseys in FLA. Adding an all-star to your line-up for prospects helps bring the moola in. Also, if you make the playoffs (which im sure you will) im sure Lu would get you further then Theo but the main reason you should bring in Lu is Markstrom. Having one of the best goalies whos ever played the game mentor your up and comer could be glorious for development, plus with Markstroms constant injuries who knows... The fact that the owners OK'd adding lu's salary probably hints at how they feel about the issue.

With Lu you get consistent quality goaltending which could make all the difference in the standings and a quality locker room guy. If you hold on to him for the duration of his contract you will eventually be paying much less actual dollars then cap hit. By then he will prob be in a backup roll with Markstrom starting. Do you really think an unproven prospect such as Bjugstad, Shore, or Petrovic has more value to the Panthers organization then a consistent, proven all-star?

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02-01-2013, 12:28 PM
  #268
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Tampa is and has always been the best fit for Luongo. Yzerman is just too arrogant to realize it, I think.

I have to laugh at the months and months of these discussions though. Based on what the fans of every team in the league seem to think, every team hs 4-5 guys in the pipeline that are going to be front-line players. No wonder the NHL is expanding...

The truth is most of these players won't develop. Even seemingly sure bets like Chris Tanev (and he sure seems like one at this point) might regress, or their development might stall where it is now, or they might be injured, or they might end up not being as good as you think once they're playing different minutes.

Prospects are for loser franchises. You always need some fresh talent coming in, but the notion that teams should just stockpile prospect after prospect is driven by fans' desire to watch guys develop in their system, something to fall back on if the team is bad. Obviously having guys on ELC's is important, but at a certain point it becomes pretty ridiculous to dramatically over-value future potential versus present value.

Baseball is different because the salary dynamics make young players less important, but it reminds me a bit of this past winter. Alex Anthopolous radically re-stocked the Jays farm system in a few short years, then parlayed those high-risk talents into good-to-elite league talent, and some fans were up in arms. Above all else, winning is the goal, not having the #1 ranked system...

As for Florida, it comes down to how high they are on Markstrom. He hasn't really been lights out, he has an injury history, and goalies are notoriously hard to project at the best of times. The Panthers have a ton of prospects: are they going to be so reticent to move any of their top prospects that the team flounders in mediocrity? Maybe.

I'm certain there are 2-3 GMs in the league that realize that buying low on Luongo is an opportunity that very rarely presents itself in this league. They're trying to leverage the situation to get the best deal possible, but as soon as one team gets close, another team is going to feel the pressure of their leverage decreasing. That's what Gillis is waiting for.

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02-01-2013, 12:53 PM
  #269
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Florida fan here. I wouldn't give up Shore for Luongo. Luongo's contract is horrible and Shore has been really solid for the Panthers. He's also a stud at taking faceoffs.
We've also got Markstrom coming up so we really don't need Luongo, hopefully he gets traded to the Leafs instead.
While Luongo is undoubtedly a superb goalie, he is almost 34 years of age. He has most value to a cup contender within a window of about 3 more years (reminds one of the Vancouver Canucks). Neither Florida or Toronto would fit that description. However, he has personal reasons to waive his NTC to go to Florida, but not to Toronto. Also his cap recapture contract is less likely to be an issue for Florida as it would be for TO.

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02-01-2013, 01:05 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Luis Gudbrunson View Post
Here's the issue. It's Value vs Need. Very similar to the draft where a team has to consider whether they draft for their specific needs? or the best player available?

Luongo is a tremendous goalie. Nobody can deny it, he's world-class. He has a lot of value.

Really, the only basis Vancouver and it's fans have for Luongo going to Florida is because he wants to. I'm sorry, but whatever clause Lu has is with Gillis... not Tallon.
The Florida owners want Luongo's contract. Going forward, his cap hit will soon be more than he gets paid. This will save the owner money, and thus, makes more sense to him - dollars and cents. It's Tallon's job to have the books at league office showing the Panthers are spending to the cap floor, when his owner is actually shelling out far less.

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02-01-2013, 01:08 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Parkdale View Post
While Luongo is undoubtedly a superb goalie, he is almost 34 years of age. He has most value to a cup contender within a window of about 3 more years (reminds one of the Vancouver Canucks). Neither Florida or Toronto would fit that description. However, he has personal reasons to waive his NTC to go to Florida, but not to Toronto. Also his cap recapture contract is less likely to be an issue for Florida as it would be for TO.

Cap recapture actually benefits a budget team like FLA, while it hurts a cap limit team like TOR. And by a piddly amount at best.



TBay makes a lot of sense, but Yzerman comes from the DET school of thinking about goaltending. He will not pay big for an elite option. He's fine with the middling ones.


Calling it right now, Luongo++ for Ovechkin.

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02-01-2013, 01:11 PM
  #272
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Tampa is and has always been the best fit for Luongo. Yzerman is just too arrogant to realize it, I think.

I have to laugh at the months and months of these discussions though. Based on what the fans of every team in the league seem to think, every team hs 4-5 guys in the pipeline that are going to be front-line players. No wonder the NHL is expanding...

The truth is most of these players won't develop. Even seemingly sure bets like Chris Tanev (and he sure seems like one at this point) might regress, or their development might stall where it is now, or they might be injured, or they might end up not being as good as you think once they're playing different minutes.

Prospects are for loser franchises. You always need some fresh talent coming in, but the notion that teams should just stockpile prospect after prospect is driven by fans' desire to watch guys develop in their system, something to fall back on if the team is bad. Obviously having guys on ELC's is important, but at a certain point it becomes pretty ridiculous to dramatically over-value future potential versus present value.

Baseball is different because the salary dynamics make young players less important, but it reminds me a bit of this past winter. Alex Anthopolous radically re-stocked the Jays farm system in a few short years, then parlayed those high-risk talents into good-to-elite league talent, and some fans were up in arms. Above all else, winning is the goal, not having the #1 ranked system...

As for Florida, it comes down to how high they are on Markstrom. He hasn't really been lights out, he has an injury history, and goalies are notoriously hard to project at the best of times. The Panthers have a ton of prospects: are they going to be so reticent to move any of their top prospects that the team flounders in mediocrity? Maybe.

I'm certain there are 2-3 GMs in the league that realize that buying low on Luongo is an opportunity that very rarely presents itself in this league. They're trying to leverage the situation to get the best deal possible, but as soon as one team gets close, another team is going to feel the pressure of their leverage decreasing. That's what Gillis is waiting for.
Tampa was the best fit for Luongo no doubt. Age. Contender Status. Need. etc. They are probably a better fit for Lou than they are for Schneider even.

The factors in Florida's favour are familiarity (name brand in a flagging market), need beyond this season, track record of Lou mentoring an elite youngster (Lou will not hold Backstrom back and will in fact likely help and you can always trade Backstrom later), GM's have an expiration date if they do't win, Florida has already established the depth needed in the prospect pool, Florida has veterans that want to and can compete, and finally you need to win in that market to draw.

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02-01-2013, 01:17 PM
  #273
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Cap recapture actually benefits a budget team like FLA, while it hurts a cap limit team like TOR. And by a piddly amount at best.

TBay makes a lot of sense, but Yzerman comes from the DET school of thinking about goaltending. He will not pay big for an elite option. He's fine with the middling ones.

Calling it right now, Luongo++ for Ovechkin.
If this was not a capped system, then yes OV would be a valuable player. However, under the current CBA, he does not play to his cap. He is a goal scorer, who (when not scoring) offers little else to his team. He is a lot like Daniel Sedin. If he's not scoring, what else does he contribute that justifies his very high salary?

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02-01-2013, 01:19 PM
  #274
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While Luongo is undoubtedly a superb goalie, he is almost 34 years of age. He has most value to a cup contender within a window of about 3 more years (reminds one of the Vancouver Canucks). Neither Florida or Toronto would fit that description. However, he has personal reasons to waive his NTC to go to Florida, but not to Toronto. Also his cap recapture contract is less likely to be an issue for Florida as it would be for TO.
How many 'cup contender' are their in the league?

5? 10? 15? 20?

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02-01-2013, 01:21 PM
  #275
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Yankees get a ton of money from television revenues/PPVs/etc., They aren't really relying that much on gate revenue like most NHL teams are.
Yankees generate around $300M in gate revenue.

 
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