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Old
03-13-2013, 12:13 AM
  #351
TheHudlinator
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Had to think about it, but no. I don't think I would.
Yea I only ask because I think Drouin will be a top goal scorer, and Barkov will be a first line centermen and I think having both would be better then 1 + Sven.

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03-13-2013, 01:06 AM
  #352
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If we end up with a top 5 pick would anyone be willing to move Sven for another top 5 pick, end up with say Drouin + Barkov?
Depends who is available, but I think there is a good possibility I would.

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03-13-2013, 04:51 AM
  #353
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Bouwmeester to st.louis?

Saw this in a article posted on hockey buzz. I know hockey buzz isn't credible but it's not from eklund so I thought I'd post it.

"With that being said, there has been some discussion on Twitter over the last few days that there might be mutual interest between the Flames and the Blues with respect to trades. While this is mere speculation at this point, the names being mentioned are Bouwmeester & Stempniak from Calgary and Stewart & Cole from the Blues. Not sure if the two teams can agree to terms on a deal anytime soon, but this could be a solid framework at the very least."

Now again I don't know how reliable this guy is or who ever reported this on twitter is but as far as the proposal goes I think that is a pretty solid start to an offer. Maybe add in a first and I'd do it.

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Old
03-13-2013, 08:05 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Flamesarmstrong22 View Post
Saw this in a article posted on hockey buzz. I know hockey buzz isn't credible but it's not from eklund so I thought I'd post it.

"With that being said, there has been some discussion on Twitter over the last few days that there might be mutual interest between the Flames and the Blues with respect to trades. While this is mere speculation at this point, the names being mentioned are Bouwmeester & Stempniak from Calgary and Stewart & Cole from the Blues. Not sure if the two teams can agree to terms on a deal anytime soon, but this could be a solid framework at the very least."

Now again I don't know how reliable this guy is or who ever reported this on twitter is but as far as the proposal goes I think that is a pretty solid start to an offer. Maybe add in a first and I'd do it.
Sounds like an awful deal that would completely cripple our already weak defense and give us little in return, even though Cole is a useful player. On the other hand it sounds like a deal that Flames management would definitely consider.

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03-13-2013, 09:07 AM
  #355
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Sounds like an awful deal that would completely cripple our already weak defense and give us little in return, even though Cole is a useful player. On the other hand it sounds like a deal that Flames management would definitely consider.
I wouldn't do it if Bouwmeester is going. But I would if Giordano was. Cole is a nice piece with decent potential but I would like him more if he actually used his size (he is 6'1 225). Stewart is the power forward we could really use. He is pretty young at 25 and has 30 goal potential. If the Blues were to add Ottawa's 2nd round pick to the deal I might bite.

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Old
03-13-2013, 09:43 AM
  #356
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I wouldn't do it if Bouwmeester is going. But I would if Giordano was. Cole is a nice piece with decent potential but I would like him more if he actually used his size (he is 6'1 225). Stewart is the power forward we could really use. He is pretty young at 25 and has 30 goal potential. If the Blues were to add Ottawa's 2nd round pick to the deal I might bite.
I would be all over it if it was Giordano. Not a huge Stewart fan but if it was Gio going the other way it would be a great deal for us if we got a pick heading our way on top.

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03-13-2013, 10:56 AM
  #357
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So it would be Gio & Stempiniak for Cole, Stewart and a 2013 2nd?
Seems to good to be true
A 3rd would be far more realistic I think

Edit: after looking how well Stewart has played this year, at least from a stats perspective (11 goals & 12 assists for 23 points in in 26 games which would be leading the Flames in points and goals at this point) - I would take the draft pick out completely

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03-13-2013, 10:59 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
I wouldn't do it if Bouwmeester is going. But I would if Giordano was. Cole is a nice piece with decent potential but I would like him more if he actually used his size (he is 6'1 225). Stewart is the power forward we could really use. He is pretty young at 25 and has 30 goal potential. If the Blues were to add Ottawa's 2nd round pick to the deal I might bite.
I'd include Bouwmeester if say Ty Rattie was coming back as well.

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03-13-2013, 11:21 AM
  #359
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I'd include Bouwmeester if say Ty Rattie was coming back as well.
I think I would do JBo and Stempniak for Stewart, Cole & Rattie
What do we have to lose?!

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03-13-2013, 11:35 AM
  #360
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I think I would do JBo and Stempniak for Stewart, Cole & Rattie
What do we have to lose?!
What we have to lose? How about Jay Bouwmeester?! The dude is only 29, he can play half an hour every game, look good doing it and never get hurt. He also fits right into Hartley's system. He is very hard to replace. Our other d-men would get victimised on a nightly basis. Unless he is unwilling to resign with us, or we get a king's ransom, we should definitely keep him around. J-Bo is NOT the problem, and never has been.

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03-13-2013, 11:54 AM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
I'd include Bouwmeester if say Ty Rattie was coming back as well.
I wouldn't the difference between Jbo and Gio is far greater than Rattie. I am not convinced Rattie will be anything special nor do I think the best method of scouting is bringing in every Portland winter Hawk ever.

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03-13-2013, 12:08 PM
  #362
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I wouldn't the difference between Jbo and Gio is far greater than Rattie. I am not convinced Rattie will be anything special nor do I think the best method of scouting is bringing in every Portland winter Hawk ever.
BUT THAT TEAM WENT TO THE MEM CUP! We need to recreate it here in Calgary.. Get Nino and Rattie, whoever they had in net that time, and voila, we could win the WHL!

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03-13-2013, 12:16 PM
  #363
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What we have to lose? How about Jay Bouwmeester?! The dude is only 29, he can play half an hour every game, look good doing it and never get hurt. He also fits right into Hartley's system. He is very hard to replace. Our other d-men would get victimised on a nightly basis. Unless he is unwilling to resign with us, or we get a king's ransom, we should definitely keep him around. J-Bo is NOT the problem, and never has been.
Yes and this has worked out so well for us in both a standings (28th) and defensive perspective (28th in GA/G) - lets keep the status quo because it is not the problem. And based on these stats - our d-men get victimized on a nightly basis already.

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03-13-2013, 12:17 PM
  #364
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BUT THAT TEAM WENT TO THE MEM CUP! We need to recreate it here in Calgary.. Get Nino and Rattie, whoever they had in net that time, and voila, we could win the WHL!
That's the dream!

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:23 PM
  #365
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BUT THAT TEAM WENT TO THE MEM CUP! We need to recreate it here in Calgary.. Get Nino and Rattie, whoever they had in net that time, and voila, we could win the WHL!
Well done.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:27 PM
  #366
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Yes and this has worked out so well for us in both a standings (28th) and defensive perspective (28th in GA/G) - lets keep the status quo because it is not the problem. And based on these stats - our d-men get victimized on a nightly basis already.
Getting rid of one of the NHL's best defensemen would not help us. Do you even watch games? What are you basing your opinions on? Who do you suggest should take over his role 5-on-5 and on the PK? Unless we are going for an Oilers-type full tank mode, getting rid of Bouwmeester is not an option.

J-Bo lacks charisma and a mean streak, other than that he possesses almost every quality you would want in a franchise defenseman. He is our most valuable player by a considerable margin IMO, both asset-wise and on the ice.

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03-13-2013, 12:34 PM
  #367
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Yes and this has worked out so well for us in both a standings (28th) and defensive perspective (28th in GA/G) - lets keep the status quo because it is not the problem. And based on these stats - our d-men get victimized on a nightly basis already.
Is it the defense? Or goaltending?

Daniel Taylor has a .912 and 3.00 in two starts. He's not the problem.

Joey MacDonald has a .900 and 2.85 in 9 games and 7 starts. Not the problem.

Leland Irving has .883 and 3.33 in 6 games and 5 starts. Not great, but not the worst guy on the team.

Miikka Kiprusoff has a .867 and 3.43 in 10 starts. Ouch. That would be bad even in 1988; Alain Chevrier, who was consistently the worst starter statistically in the late 80s, had .868 and 3.77 in 1987-88.

I think we've located the problem.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:36 PM
  #368
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Yes and this has worked out so well for us in both a standings (28th) and defensive perspective (28th in GA/G) - lets keep the status quo because it is not the problem. And based on these stats - our d-men get victimized on a nightly basis already.
One man doesn't make a team. Jay Bouwmeester comprises approximately 10% of the Flames' icetime for skaters; just maybe it has something to do with the other 90% of the icetime utilization?

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03-13-2013, 12:37 PM
  #369
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Is it the defense? Or goaltending?

Daniel Taylor has a .912 and 3.00 in two starts. He's not the problem.

Joey MacDonald has a .900 and 2.85 in 9 games and 7 starts. Not the problem.

Leland Irving has .883 and 3.33 in 6 games and 5 starts. Not great, but not the worst guy on the team.

Miikka Kiprusoff has a .867 and 3.43 in 10 starts. Ouch. That would be bad even in 1988; Alain Chevrier, who was consistently the worst starter statistically in the late 80s, had .868 and 3.77 in 1987-88.

I think we've located the problem.
This sums it up, Kipper has garbage for the majority of his games played this year.

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03-13-2013, 12:54 PM
  #370
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Getting rid of one of the NHL's best defensemen would not help us. Do you even watch games? What are you basing your opinions on? Who do you suggest should take over his role 5-on-5 and on the PK? Unless we are going for an Oilers-type full tank mode, getting rid of Bouwmeester is not an option.

J-Bo lacks charisma and a mean streak, other than that he possesses almost every quality you would want in a franchise defenseman. He is our most valuable player by a considerable margin IMO, both asset-wise and on the ice.
I am basing my opinion on the fact that even with one of the NHL's best defensemen on the team, we are still 28th in the standings and are 28th in the most telling defensive stat in GA/G. And we may end up in the same place the Oilers were last year, 29th and got the 1st overall pick, even if we don't go into full Oilers-type tank mode which in itself seems rather embarrassing for a team spending close to the cap. And what happens next year if the Flames are in the same position now (seems likely given recent history) and JBo is an upcoming UFA? Try to resign him? What if he doesn't resign before the trade deadline? Do you risk losing him for nothing? My point being is that I think his value is at his highest now and you might as well trade him and get those most value out of it especially since the Flames really don't have that much further to fall at this point without him.

And yes I agree that goal tending has been at its worst in Flames recent history this year but the odds of fixing that with trades etc. is slim and I think it is to late for this season anyway.

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03-13-2013, 12:55 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Is it the defense? Or goaltending?

Daniel Taylor has a .912 and 3.00 in two starts. He's not the problem.

Joey MacDonald has a .900 and 2.85 in 9 games and 7 starts. Not the problem.

Leland Irving has .883 and 3.33 in 6 games and 5 starts. Not great, but not the worst guy on the team.

Miikka Kiprusoff has a .867 and 3.43 in 10 starts. Ouch. That would be bad even in 1988; Alain Chevrier, who was consistently the worst starter statistically in the late 80s, had .868 and 3.77 in 1987-88.

I think we've located the problem.
Wow - that's eye opening and might explain why Joey Mac started the other night in LA.

This is the first time I've seen a statistical breakdown like this. With these numbers can Kipper be traded for anything decent or should they just keep him around until the end of his contract?

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03-13-2013, 12:56 PM
  #372
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One man doesn't make a team. Jay Bouwmeester comprises approximately 10% of the Flames' icetime for skaters; just maybe it has something to do with the other 90% of the icetime utilization?
Further proves my point that we should trade him well his value is at his highest then
If 90% of this team is not going to cut it and we end up near the bottom of the league, you might as well turn that 10% into future assets and hopefully reduce that 90% number in the future.

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03-13-2013, 01:00 PM
  #373
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I am basing my opinion on the fact that even with one of the NHL's best defensemen on the team, we are still 28th in the standings and are 28th in the most telling defensive stat in GA/G. And we may end up in the same place the Oilers were last year, 29th and got the 1st overall pick, even if we don't go into full Oilers-type tank mode which in itself seems rather embarrassing for a team spending close to the cap. And what happens next year if the Flames are in the same position now (seems likely given recent history) and JBo is an upcoming UFA? Try to resign him? What if he doesn't resign before the trade deadline? Do you risk losing him for nothing? My point being is that I think his value is at his highest now and you might as well trade him and get those most value out of it especially since the Flames really don't have that much further to fall at this point without him.

And yes I agree that goal tending has been at its worst in Flames recent history this year but the odds of fixing that with trades etc. is slim and I think it is to late for this season anyway.
If we accept some sort of 3-year suckage plan where we are okay with not competing for a playoff spot, trading J-Bo would be fine. But that is never going to happen. The problem is that he is very hard to replace and our defense will be even more awful than it is now for a long time if we trade him. Right now we do not have a single player available in the entire organisation who is going to being able to provide what he does and will do for at least 5 more years.

I already stated that we should trade him if he is unwilling to resign here rather than lose him for nothing. That seems like a no-brainer to me.

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03-13-2013, 01:24 PM
  #374
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If we accept some sort of 3-year suckage plan where we are okay with not competing for a playoff spot, trading J-Bo would be fine. But that is never going to happen. The problem is that he is very hard to replace and our defense will be even more awful than it is now for a long time if we trade him. Right now we do not have a single player available in the entire organisation who is going to being able to provide what he does and will do for at least 5 more years.

I already stated that we should trade him if he is unwilling to resign here rather than lose him for nothing. That seems like a no-brainer to me.
We are already on year 4 of the suckage plan
Seems like we should finally embrace it

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03-13-2013, 02:07 PM
  #375
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Getting rid of one of the NHL's best defensemen would not help us. Do you even watch games? What are you basing your opinions on? Who do you suggest should take over his role 5-on-5 and on the PK? Unless we are going for an Oilers-type full tank mode, getting rid of Bouwmeester is not an option.

J-Bo lacks charisma and a mean streak, other than that he possesses almost every quality you would want in a franchise defenseman. He is our most valuable player by a considerable margin IMO, both asset-wise and on the ice.
He is missing physicality and intensity which arguably are large parts of being a franchise defender. He also doesn't have the game breaking g ability of Lindstrom to make up for it.

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