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Old
03-24-2013, 06:26 PM
  #676
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
Wouldn't help them much next season though. And that lineup is still kind of small, and the defense looks ridiculously soft. Is Muzzin physical?

But I guess the Flames can't do much to fix the size issue within a single off-season. Next season could be a long one.
Next season is a write off as I said, and Yes Muzzin is quiet physical.

The lineup the year after when we are down retooling/rebuilding is
Hudler - Barkov - Toffolli
Tanguay/Horton - Spooner - GlenX
Sven - Stajan - Rattie
Aliu - Bouma - McGrattan/Ferland

Jbo - Brodie
Muzzin - Wideman
Cole - Breen

We are still a bit small, I would potentially look to move Tanguay next deadline for some more size or move Tanguay and bring in Horton

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03-24-2013, 06:30 PM
  #677
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Next season is a write off as I said, and Yes Muzzin is quiet physical.

The lineup the year after when we are down retooling/rebuilding is
Hudler - Barkov - Toffolli
Tanguay/Horton - Spooner - GlenX
Sven - Stajan - Rattie
Aliu - Bouma - McGrattan/Ferland

Jbo - Brodie
Muzzin - Wideman
Cole - Breen

We are still a bit small, I would potentially look to move Tanguay next deadline for some more size or move Tanguay and bring in Horton
Backlund?

But if next season's a write-off, then yeah, it shouldn't a big deal. Hopefully Ferland can make the jump.

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03-24-2013, 06:36 PM
  #678
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Backlund?

But if next season's a write-off, then yeah, it shouldn't a big deal. Hopefully Ferland can make the jump.

I think Barkov won't be over next year and to me he is BPA so I would take him and wait a year for him to come over.
Well **** Backlund swap him with Rattie or Tanguay.

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03-24-2013, 07:31 PM
  #679
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Backlund?

But if next season's a write-off, then yeah, it shouldn't a big deal. Hopefully Ferland can make the jump.
If he learns how to skate at the professional level, he might. Sadly, I don't see that happening in the next year or two.

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03-24-2013, 07:38 PM
  #680
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L.A. Laughs at that deal. The other 2 aren't bad but there is no way L.A. gives Bernier, who has been very good this year and outplaying Quick at times, and a former first round pick for Cammy. There is no way.
Dude, Brendan freakin' Morrow just fetched a blue chip defender.

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03-24-2013, 07:48 PM
  #681
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Dude, Brendan freakin' Morrow just fetched a blue chip defender.
But not a blue chip goalie. Goalies are some of the most valuable assets in the NHL. Especially if they are good and young and PLAYING at the NHL level. J. Morrow is not.
It wouldn't surprise me if Pittsburg inquired about iginla but the price was too high so they went with Morrow.
Also wouldn't surprise me if Iginla was a flame after April 3rd too.

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03-24-2013, 07:53 PM
  #682
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Goalies are unbelievably risky. Look at what Bobrovsky got (2nd, 4th). Proven goaltenders I would give you, but Bernier is anything but proven at this point.

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03-24-2013, 07:53 PM
  #683
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But not a blue chip goalie. Goalies are some of the most valuable assets in the NHL. Especially if they are good and young and PLAYING at the NHL level. J. Morrow is not.
It wouldn't surprise me if Pittsburg inquired about iginla but the price was too high so they went with Morrow.
Also wouldn't surprise me if Iginla was a flame after April 3rd too.
No they are not. I would argue that they are indeed the least valuable assets on the trade market (especially when they are not at the NHL level, like a Malcolm Subban).

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03-24-2013, 07:58 PM
  #684
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Goalies are unbelievably risky. Look at what Bobrovsky got (2nd, 4th). Proven goaltenders I would give you, but Bernier is anything but proven at this point.
But Bernier has been very good this year and L.A. Can not afford to give him up incase Quick starts to struggle. It would take massive overpayment. And Bobrovsky is a poor example. He wasnt playing well near the end of his time in Philly. He had a 3.00 GAA and a save % lower than .900. Very poor example as Bernier has a 1.94 GAA and a .923 save percentage this year. If Bob was playing like he is now for Philly last year, his price would have been through the roof

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03-24-2013, 08:00 PM
  #685
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No they are not. I would argue that they are indeed the least valuable assets on the trade market (especially when they are not at the NHL level, like a Malcolm Subban).
They are rare on the trade market because you never know what to expect with a goalie but good, young, ones would be extremely valuable. Especially when they have the stats Bernier has this season.

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03-24-2013, 08:05 PM
  #686
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Bernier has played a whopping 10 games this year. No GM is going to overpay for him based on that.

And the year prior, Bobrovsky actually had very good numbers playing 50+ games.

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03-24-2013, 08:08 PM
  #687
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Another one I remembered. Remember Jaroslav Halak and that stud season he had in Montreal where he backstopped them to the Eastern Conference Finals? When Montreal traded him all they got was Lars Eller.

Cammy is more valuable than Eller was at the time and Halak was significantly more proven than Bernier. Goalies just don't have the value that you seem to think they do.

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03-24-2013, 08:11 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Noori View Post
Bernier has played a whopping 10 games this year. No GM is going to overpay for him based on that.

And the year prior, Bobrovsky actually had very good numbers playing 50+ games.
He played over 50 games once in his career. And that was his rookie campaign 3 years ago, not the year he was traded. His numbers were slightly above average. And I bet Philly would not have even considered trading him then. The kings will not trade a good rookie goalie, until A. He either begins to play poorly or B. They get a very strong offer. And I'm sorry but and overpaid Cammy won't be that strong offer. A package for iginla, is a slight possibility because Iginla is a much more valuable asset.
I can't even think of a rookie goalie, who was playing well at the NHL level that was traded..

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03-24-2013, 08:12 PM
  #689
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Another one I remembered. Remember Jaroslav Halak and that stud season he had in Montreal where he backstopped them to the Eastern Conference Finals? When Montreal traded him all they got was Lars Eller.

Cammy is more valuable than Eller was at the time and Halak was significantly more proven than Bernier. Goalies just don't have the value that you seem to think they do.
But you're leaving out the fact that they had a blue chip goalie in Carey price that was behind him. And also Lars Eller was thought to be a very strong center prospect at the time. Talent was traded for youth with upside. Not an overpaid Cammilari
If Quick was playing very strong I'd say it's a possibility but no way this season.


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03-24-2013, 08:25 PM
  #690
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Originally Posted by tyflames View Post
But Bernier has been very good this year and L.A. Can not afford to give him up incase Quick starts to struggle. It would take massive overpayment. And Bobrovsky is a poor example. He wasnt playing well near the end of his time in Philly. He had a 3.00 GAA and a save % lower than .900. Very poor example as Bernier has a 1.94 GAA and a .923 save percentage this year. If Bob was playing like he is now for Philly last year, his price would have been through the roof
Bernier is just like Lindback.

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03-24-2013, 08:29 PM
  #691
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Bernier is just like Lindback.
I don't agree with that. Lindback was sheltered behind a Vezina Candidate in Rinne. Quick has not been playing as well this year and allowed more of a spotlight on Benier despite only playing 10 games. Nashville could afford to give up lindback, at this stage of the season L.A. Can not

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03-24-2013, 08:33 PM
  #692
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I don't agree with that. Lindback was sheltered behind a Vezina Candidate in Rinne. Quick has not been playing as well this year and allowed more of a spotlight on Benier despite only playing 10 games. Nashville could afford to give up lindback, at this stage of the season L.A. Can not
Lindback was behind a vezina goalie so is Bernier, sure Quick started slow but he has been much better lately. Bernier isn't worth more than Lindback or Bob right now he hasn't proven anything.

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03-24-2013, 08:35 PM
  #693
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I don't agree with that. Lindback was sheltered behind a Vezina Candidate in Rinne. Quick has not been playing as well this year and allowed more of a spotlight on Benier despite only playing 10 games. Nashville could afford to give up lindback, at this stage of the season L.A. Can not
Don't read too much into a goaltenders stats on a tight defensive team. And conversely, don't read too much into a goaltenders performance on a porous defensive club that focuses on offense.

Look at Bryzgalov in Phoenix and then in Philadelphia.
Mike Smith in Tampa Bay and then in Phoenix.
Lindback in Nashville and then in Tampa Bay.
Ellis in Nashville and then Tampa Bay, Anaheim, Carolina.

As well as Bernier has done in LA, it's unlikely he can replicate that here.

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03-24-2013, 08:37 PM
  #694
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Lindback was behind a vezina goalie so is Bernier, sure Quick started slow but he has been much better lately. Bernier isn't worth more than Lindback or Bob right now he hasn't proven anything.
Ok ignore Berniers overall value right now, cause we could agrue about that all day and never agree. Can you say that Cammy is worth Bernier as the poster I was discussing this with, before you joined, said?
I would say not. Good youth with upside would get traded for good youth with upside (like picks and good prospects). Or apart of a larger package for solid talent like Iginla.

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03-24-2013, 08:38 PM
  #695
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Ok ignore Berniers overall value right now, cause we could agrue about that all day and never agree. Can you say that Cammy is worth Bernier as the poster I was discussing this with, before you joined, said?
I would say not good youth with upside would get traded for good youth with upside (like picks and good prospects). Or apart of a larger package for solid talent like Iginla.
Cammy is worth more, on the market I believe Cammy can get 1st + I don't think Bernier could get that so yes Cammy>Bernier right now.

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03-24-2013, 08:43 PM
  #696
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Cammy is worth more, on the market I believe Cammy can get 1st + I don't think Bernier could get that so yes Cammy>Bernier right now.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree then because from my point of view, include Cammy's salary and the fact that he hasn't been 25+ goal scorer for 3 years he would not fetch that kind of value. And also Bernier would not be traded for a player like cammy from my perspective.

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03-24-2013, 08:45 PM
  #697
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I guess we will have to agree to disagree then because from my point of view, include Cammy's salary and the fact that he hasn't been 25+ goal scorer for 3 years he would not fetch that kind of value. And also Bernier would not be traded for a player like cammy from my perspective.
He was on pace for 25+ goals every year, we can simply eat Cammy's cap and make him very valuable, Berneir just isn't worth especially when we have Ramo who could very well be a starter.

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03-24-2013, 08:49 PM
  #698
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He was on pace for 25+ goals every year, we can simply eat Cammy's cap and make him very valuable, Berneir just isn't worth especially when we have Ramo who could very well be a starter.
He did not achieve it though and also hasn't even been able to play more then 67+ games for 4 years. He is being paid to put up stats like a top line player and one could argue he is not a top line player

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03-24-2013, 08:57 PM
  #699
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He did not achieve it though and also hasn't even been able to play more then 67+ games for 4 years. He is being paid to put up stats like a top line player and one could argue he is not a top line player
He is top line player when healthy, again eat his cap and he is worth far far more.

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03-24-2013, 09:00 PM
  #700
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He is top line player when healthy, again eat his cap and he is worth far far more.
Yes, "when he is healthy." And he was healthy for some of his time in Montreal and definitley wasn't a top line player. It's difficult to eat his cap when the cap will be decreasing as of next year

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