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Ray Shero

View Poll Results: Do you believe in Shero?
I believe in Shero. He´s immortal after he brough us Neal 75 43.60%
Mixed feelings, gonna give him some time 75 43.60%
No longer believing in him. He had an awful off-season 22 12.79%
Voters: 172. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:51 PM
  #226
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I think some fans have the impresion running a hockey team is like playing monopoly or something. This isn't a department store or real estate office. He can't just go get whatever he wants as long as he has the money.

"No Plan B for Parise and Suter" is maybe one of the weakest arguments against Shero there is. You know WHY there was no plan B in the FA market? Because the market SUCKED. Our choices were limited to mediocre players, soft underachieving head-cases (Semin), and old guys who are overpaid and non-committal (Doan).

One day the people who constantly find the glass half empty with Shero (despite the very good things he's done with a tight cap situation) will figure out that he doesn't make overpayments for guys whose potential is high but whose consistency is poor, and he doesn't make moves just because he can. BE THANKFUL for that! He's patient and waits for the right opportunity to get the right guy, so that he's not overpaying or putting himself in a bad cap situation.

This is not fantasy hockey. Despite that I have a feeling in a month or so most of the plaintiffs are going to be shouting Shero's name from the rooftops... until the next time they decide they like a player and Shero doesn't trade for / sign him.
The more games we play, the more I'm convinced that our "Plan B" for Suter was just being confident in our young defensemen's ability to to come in and play well.

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02-10-2013, 12:55 PM
  #227
Darth Vitale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The more games we play, the more I'm convinced that our "Plan B" for Suter was just being confident in our young defensemen's ability to to come in and play well.
The more I see Despres and Bortuzzo, the more I'm glad we didn't offer him a huge contract. And I've said all along Elmer was ready if the coaches would give him a chance. So far he's proving that theory correct.

Parise... hey... the Wings and Rangers and everyone else was making him an offer too. We're not Minnesota, we lost. Simple as that. Not a "Shero mistake" in any way, shape or form. That said I think this spring and summer will bring some nice changes, and our D is shaping up well without need of signing over-the-hill veterans, etc.

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02-10-2013, 12:58 PM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
The more I see Despres and Bortuzzo, the more I'm glad we didn't offer him a huge contract. And I've said all along Elmer was ready if the coaches would give him a chance. So far he's proving that theory correct.

Parise... hey... the Wings and Rangers and everyone else was making him an offer too. We're not Minnesota, we lost. Simple as that. Not a "Shero mistake" in any way, shape or form. That said I think this spring and summer will bring some nice changes, and our D is shaping up well without need of signing over-the-hill veterans, etc.
Ya, the Parise situation was tough. So glad the procedures for that are changing. Hindsight says we should have gone another direction but hindsight is a ***** like that. It's easy to say we should have signed a Parenteau or Hudler, but that would have instantly taken us out of the Parise running.

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02-10-2013, 12:58 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
The more I see Despres and Bortuzzo, the more I'm glad we didn't offer him a huge contract. And I've said all along Elmer was ready if the coaches would give him a chance. So far he's proving that theory correct.

Parise... hey... the Wings and Rangers and everyone else was making him an offer too. We're not Minnesota, we lost. Simple as that. Not a "Shero mistake" in any way, shape or form. That said I think this spring and summer will bring some nice changes, and our D is shaping up well without need of signing over-the-hill veterans, etc.
Yep, on board with that 100%.

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02-10-2013, 02:02 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
The more I see Despres and Bortuzzo, the more I'm glad we didn't offer him a huge contract. And I've said all along Elmer was ready if the coaches would give him a chance. So far he's proving that theory correct.

Parise... hey... the Wings and Rangers and everyone else was making him an offer too. We're not Minnesota, we lost. Simple as that. Not a "Shero mistake" in any way, shape or form. That said I think this spring and summer will bring some nice changes, and our D is shaping up well without need of signing over-the-hill veterans, etc.
Shero put all his eggs in one basket and it bit him in the ass. What's done is done. I really hope Parise gave him some false hope and it wasn't Shero being arrogant.

Cough trading a draft pick to Philly after they couldn't sign Hamhuis cough

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02-10-2013, 06:07 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
Shero put all his eggs in one basket and it bit him in the ass. What's done is done. I really hope Parise gave him some false hope and it wasn't Shero being arrogant.

Cough trading a draft pick to Philly after they couldn't sign Hamhuis cough
How exactly did it bite him in the ass?

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02-10-2013, 06:21 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
How exactly did it bite him in the ass?
we did miss on all the "normal" wings available. I'd be happy to have a Hudler or Parenteau right now. I don't blame Shero for it though, you have to try for a guy like Parise

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02-10-2013, 06:29 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
we did miss on all the "normal" wings available. I'd be happy to have a Hudler or Parenteau right now.
Shero's been able to keep the core together over the years by not dedicating big money on longer term deals to "normal" support wingers. I don't think allocating 4 mil per to the likes of Parenteau and Hudler is in our best interests, either.

Going all-in on Parise and then waiting for the deadline if we lose out is preferable to overpaying for what was left in FA, IMHO.

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02-10-2013, 07:37 PM
  #234
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A lot of people are assuming the "Plan B" on missing out on Parise didn't exist. What if the Plan B was looking ahead to this season/trade deadline for a guy they want just as much but might not have been available at the time? I'm not throwing out any names, just pointing out that considering his job description is to help the team win now and in the future, he is always thinking ahead.

I've thought all along the Plan B wouldn't unfold until this trade deadline. We'll see...


Last edited by Nietzsche Zone Play: 02-10-2013 at 07:42 PM.
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Old
02-10-2013, 07:52 PM
  #235
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After reading some threads recently, it seems many fans here have made some questionable and peculiar evaluations. Imho. Suggesting they need wingers is trolling? Why? They don't have real finishers other than Malkin and Crosby and if they are shut down, they really struggle. When Letang is out, the D is really poor. Well, it seems it is the weakness with them already but their forward group is overrated, I think. No wonder they were wanting Parise.

I also read a bunch of posters stating the Devils are only an average or mediocre team. Yet, the Pens can't beat them and the Devils have been quite solid recently. Neal, Kunitz and Dupres are decent but they still need more creative and talents forwards. Teams will just concentrate on tight checking Malkin and/or Crosby and that may be enough so they need to add something.

The D needs fixing too, from what I can see.

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02-11-2013, 07:15 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Wings don't just grow on trees. And its not like he hasn't tried. Kunitz has been solid. Guerin was good. Satan, Feds, Malone, Sykora. Hossa was obviously good. Recchi before them for a bit. Neal was brought in for him and Sid was hurt for a year and a half at the wrong time. And he pushed hard for Parise. We were one Zach Parise's place of birth from having Sid's long term winger.
They had the cash and listened to the BS about A. Semin it appears, maybe. Semin would have fit in with Crosby nicely. Pens lose, Canes advantage. He hasn't made finding Crosby an elite winger the priority or it would have been done by now no matter the circumstances.

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02-11-2013, 09:54 AM
  #237
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Shero's lack of urgency this past summer was definitely puzzling. Maybe you don't give Parentau and Hudler what they got, but to our knowledge he didn't even kick a tire. Took a run at Parise and Doan, MIGHT have low-balled Semin, (but probably not) and that was it. He could have made a play for Ray Whitney who would have been just sick, but didn't bother. Could have had Sullivan back on another cheap one-year, but took a pass. Even after all that failed, he could have taken a no-risk flier on Lattendresse or Peter Mueller (who I actually saw somebody suggest trading for, hilariously) but simply did not bother. And frickin Ray Charles could see the gaping hole in the top 6. Now he's scrounging the earth for a winger, like he got caught by surprise or something. It is not his finest hour, I'll say that.

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02-11-2013, 10:42 AM
  #238
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I wanted Semin as well but I also realize that Semin + Bylsma wouldn't be a marriage made in hockey heaven.

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02-11-2013, 10:55 AM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
Shero's lack of urgency this past summer was definitely puzzling. Maybe you don't give Parentau and Hudler what they got, but to our knowledge he didn't even kick a tire. Took a run at Parise and Doan, MIGHT have low-balled Semin, (but probably not) and that was it. He could have made a play for Ray Whitney who would have been just sick, but didn't bother. Could have had Sullivan back on another cheap one-year, but took a pass. Even after all that failed, he could have taken a no-risk flier on Lattendresse or Peter Mueller (who I actually saw somebody suggest trading for, hilariously) but simply did not bother. And frickin Ray Charles could see the gaping hole in the top 6. Now he's scrounging the earth for a winger, like he got caught by surprise or something. It is not his finest hour, I'll say that.
This. This. This. This. This. ... This.

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02-11-2013, 11:31 AM
  #240
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there are a few things that have been nagging at me but certainly aren't fireable offenses. i think there are instances where i think Shero hasn't been able to leverage an apparent competitive advantage.

1. Malkin is on this team. Gonchar and Kulemin just about consider him their brother. Datsyuk adores him. Kovalchuk is his friend. Radulov is his buddy. his relationship with Ovechkin seems more complex, but nobody can look at that famous picture of a despondent OV, his head buried in Geno's shoulder, being consoled by our man and not think there's some measure of respect. point is, it appears that Malkin is downright beloved among the Russians - they appear to love him in a way you can't say about OV or Semin. I'm not sure that Shero has done his best to exploit this. He's made some moves - acquiring Kovalev and the Ukrainians Poni and Fed, drafting Pechursky and Zlobin but on the whole they don't really amount to more than 'dipping a toe in the water'. I'm talking about the way Detroit or Ottawa have leveraged the presence of say Lidström and Alfredson and incorporated the Swedes on their roster. and i'm not saying he should acquire every Semin and Andrei Kostitsyn but don't give the bullcrap about floating Russians being incompatible with North American/Dan Bylsma hockey. the coach himself called his system 'Ruslan Fedotenko' hockey, Kulemin is pro-typical Bylsma hockey, Sergei Kostitsyn plays in Nashville the proverbial ur-text of Bylsma/Shero's blueprint, the Nikitin-Tyutin pairing is one of the most defensively sound in all of hockey. So maybe it's nearly impossible to get the KHL guys to come over. Maybe he did the best he could to talk to Mozyakin, Perezhogin, Popov and the like but we haven't even really heard rumors to that effect. there's got to be some free agent forwards who'd be enticed by the chance to play next to Geno. i'd be fine if he struck out with all the KHL guys, found most of the Russian draft prospects lacking, and has evaluated all the guys already in the NHL, but i'm not even sure he's looking in that direction. it's not really about signing all of Malkin's friends, it's more about exploiting a competitive advantage. maybe he's tried the best he's can but nothing worth reporting has come to fruition. i don't know.

2. this one is far more controversial. concussions. the way i see it, this team has had to deal with some high profile concussions, they take a lot of pride in their relationship with UPMC, and they have a billionaire owner - therefore i would think that this team has spent more time and money trying to understand the nature of concussions than other organizations. i don't know if that's the case, but i hope a team that is committed to Crosby and Letang and has the resources would do everything in its power to learn about the injury and adapt. if that's the case, that seems to me to be an advantage - we know more about dealing with concussions than other teams, therefore we should be able to take on guys who might be undervalued around the league because other organizations are relativity under-equipped in dealing with these things. i'm not talking about fulfilling a Paul Martin fantasty and having a team of skating eggshells, but guys like Peter Mueller and Guillaume Latendresse were available in free-agency, Bouchard could have been traded for while his value was low. granted, maybe the inverse is true - listen to Colorado fans talk about how they don't think their team will ever sign or trade for someone with concussion issues because of their history with them. maybe the Pens research has yielded little of note, maybe we are paying the best doctors in the business and all they have to say is don't sign people with concussions. again i don't know, but i am left feeling that a potential competitive advantage - namely an ability to pick up talent that other teams may be weary of - is being ignored.

3. paying the best doctors, i hope we're doing that. cause as TR would say, there's no cap on coach, scouting or medical staff. we have Atlanta's failed GM and Colorado's failed coach on our payroll. maybe these guys are amazing at their current tasks, the results haven't really borne that out. Shero can afford to go out Jack Kennedy style and stock his staff with "the best and the brightest." maybe he has, but i'm not seeing it. a guy like Paul Coffey says he'll consult the PP and we know he's in love with Letang - and now it's a running gag - by why not bring in more consultants, more hockey minds. to use another presidential analogy, where's his 'team of rivals'. then again maybe front offices don't work like that. he was able to leverage the fact that Bill Guerin enjoyed his time here and now the guy is a developmental coach. that's fine, but yet again it amounts to little more than 'dipping a toe in the water'. The Stars just added Modano, Recchi and Turco to their organization and i think they had to make up some titles for them.

these aren't earth-shattering indictments. i'm not foaming at the mouth over what really just amounts to minor annoyances and i admit i could be completely wrong about all of them, but more than anything they seem to reveal a real lack of creativity and imagination. a lack of creativity seems to be a theme that runs through this organization from our 'no-hands' wingers to our 'cliche spouting' coach to the GM.


Last edited by Crafton: 02-11-2013 at 11:44 AM.
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Old
02-11-2013, 11:57 AM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
Shero's lack of urgency this past summer was definitely puzzling. Maybe you don't give Parentau and Hudler what they got, but to our knowledge he didn't even kick a tire. Took a run at Parise and Doan, MIGHT have low-balled Semin, (but probably not) and that was it. He could have made a play for Ray Whitney who would have been just sick, but didn't bother. Could have had Sullivan back on another cheap one-year, but took a pass. Even after all that failed, he could have taken a no-risk flier on Lattendresse or Peter Mueller (who I actually saw somebody suggest trading for, hilariously) but simply did not bother. And frickin Ray Charles could see the gaping hole in the top 6. Now he's scrounging the earth for a winger, like he got caught by surprise or something. It is not his finest hour, I'll say that.
That right there, "Shero's lack of urgency" hits the nail on the head! They helped out Fleury. That's it. That's all.

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