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Ray Shero

View Poll Results: Do you believe in Shero?
I believe in Shero. He´s immortal after he brough us Neal 75 43.60%
Mixed feelings, gonna give him some time 75 43.60%
No longer believing in him. He had an awful off-season 22 12.79%
Voters: 172. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:18 PM
  #26
Whale Mingo
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Bunch of ****ing cherry picked garbage by some of you...

- Traded Gogo for Neal & Nisky....
- Traded Whitney for Kunitz and Tangradi
- Signed the best player in the game to an amazing contract
- Traded a guy who was going to leave us for free in a shortened 48 game season for Sutter, 8th pick, and Dumolin
- Went after Hossa, Suter, & Parise and even though they selected other teams, we were right in the mix.
- Signed 2 of the top 4 defenders available during UFA, who unfortunately have **** the bed since. He clears cap space, like everyone wanted, w/ Michalek.

This, and by a good margin. I still believe in Shero, however, at some point the problem with being leadership in any job is you are responsible for the results. The results stink right now.

The entire coaching staff at the NHL level and the AHL level need to go, ALL of them. Bylsma and crew simply because nobody has done less with more talent since Whitney Houston. The power play continues to struggle, how? The AHL staff because we've drafted 99 defensemen in a row and all we hear about is how deep we are at defense. If we are so damn deep at defense then why is Ben Lovejoy starting games? At some point the AHL staff is not doing a good enough job at getting players ready to step into NHL roles.

This is the same team (perhaps worse) that got bounced unceremoniously by our hated rivals last spring. Other teams would kill for the talent we have and yet it's being squandered here. Unacceptable. Someone tell me another team that Pascal Dupuis would on the top line (debatable which is the top line only because the lack of wingers for Sid)? I don't think he's more than a second liner in Columbus or Florida and yet he's (still) the answer for a future HOF center? No freaking way.

I believe in Ray Shero, but it's time to nut up and do something besides makes trades for career minor leaguers and draft defensemen that die in WBS.

Clocks ticking, Ray.

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:23 PM
  #27
Sidney the Kidney
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I'm somewhere between mixed feelings and losing faith. He's made some good moves (Neal trade, bringing in Vokoun, what he attempted with the Martin and Michalek signings), but at the same time the same lingering holes up front we've had since Hossa and Malone left still are present.

I think sometimes he's a bit too patient. This off season, ideally we could have used both a top six winger and another physical top four defender, IMO. Instead, the only moves he actually made were bringing in Tanner Glass for the 4th line, and dumping Michalek so that Lovejoy and a rookie were the only additions to the blueline. He didn't make the necessary moves.

And it's not like it's not blatantly obvious what the holes in this line up are.

Also, I'm not a fan of this organization's drafting. I'm sorry, I know it's sacrilegious to say this on here. But the fact there's one single solitary forward prospect who even remotely has top six potential is ridiculous, especially when you've got two guys like Sid and Geno on the club. Our drafting has done absolutely zero to actually enhance our top six ability.

I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt ... but that runs out if he still hasn't addressed the Crosby line by the beginning of next season at the latest. And I'm not talking about moving Neal to Crosby's line, only then to have a gaping hole on Geno's line.

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:25 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post

And it's not like it's not blatantly obvious what the holes in this line up are.
This is an excellent point.

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:28 PM
  #29
wheelz87
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I used to be in the 'in Shero I trust' side. No more. What have you done lately? You got Neal. Awesome. You done? Yea? Great. His best trade was the Hossa deal. And because he didn't sign you're going to change your whole philosophy and become this passive GM? Bull****. We lost NOTHING in that deal. That was truly our best team, Sid and Hossa were great together and would have been unstoppable. Dupers was even acceptable in the top 6 with those 2 playing with each other. Geno had Malone and Sykora. Fantastic. And yes, our bottom 6 was great. But not at the expense of our top 6.

This team needs to be built on OFFENSE. Sorry, it does. Get away from your damn Nashville days. The West is about defense, so whatever you did there is fine. So adapt to your strengths, which is Sid and Geno. Scuderi and Gill were great. But no, we need all the defense in the world. Lets ignore Sid and Malkin and get great defense behind them. Martin/Michalek both are/were failures. All we need are the Scuderi/Gill types. Who cares if we have turnover year to year on defense? You can find those types in free agency, you can't find Parises/Hossas there.

And who knows if he even went after Parise this summer, it may have actually been Suter he wanted, again, NASHVILLE CONNECTION. You know who would look great in a Pens jersey? Alexander Semin. But wait, he's soft. He's European. He doesn't have the passion. Right? We need Kunitz/Dupuis/TK, you know, hard workers. Forget the guys who can score from anywhere on the ice. Semin can SHOOT. He can DANGLE. He makes **** HAPPEN. But he doesn't play Pittsburgh Penguins hockey!! Neither does Michael Ryder, neither does this guy, that guy. Ryder scored 30 last year? Whatever. I bet he floated the whole time, right Ray?

I love the Pens, I'll cheer them on, I'll go to the games. It's just so frustrating. Crosby just Adam Graves'd some dude last night. He played with better talent in high school than he has in his career as a Penguin. This team is built so backwards and were playing away from our strengths its just simply a joke.

If Homer was our GM, we would have 6 top 6 players. And we would win the Cup year in and year out because Sid and Geno with top 6 players is not possible to contain. It's not. I'll never be able to prove it because Ray will never get away from his defensive ways. But I'm sorry, its true.

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:30 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Bunch of ****ing cherry picked garbage by some of you...

- Traded Gogo for Neal & Nisky....
- Traded Whitney for Kunitz and Tangradi
- Signed the best player in the game to an amazing contract
- Traded a guy who was going to leave us for free in a shortened 48 game season for Sutter, 8th pick, and Dumolin
- Went after Hossa, Suter, & Parise and even though they selected other teams, we were right in the mix.
- Signed 2 of the top 4 defenders available during UFA, who unfortunately have **** the bed since. He clears cap space, like everyone wanted, w/ Michalek.


I mean.. I think we should mix both lists and see what you think. And do it for other GMs, too. Ray Shero is great. He's done an amazing job through trades. He has missed a lot in UFA but that's because players are choosing other destinations or not panning out for us. Look at the names we were going after. Hamhuis, Parise, Martin, Michalek, Hossa, Jagr.... I mean what else do you want? If he would have signed Parise, you would have all acted as if he were a God.
Don't take this the wrong way: I ♥ you.

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:35 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Will Hunting View Post
Guys, even after Suter/Parise fail, there were some options. Not gonna mention them all, but what about PA Parenteau or Damien Brunner. Brunner signed 2-way contract with Detroit on a very reasonable price. No surprise, he´s doing well. Shero didn´t give it a ****. I am sure there were some other options as well.

I am very embarrassed with what we have now. Giving a shot to youngsters like Tangradi may be fine, but we want a success ASAP and those are very risky experiments. And they´re failing so far.
I'm pretty sure that Brunner had to have a 2 way contract as it's an ELC. So there was only so much money that could be offered.

I'd rather him have gone after Semin, or Mueller, or someone like that and it not work out and we end up trading/waiving them, then not getting anyone and relying on our very shallow prospect pool

As for the prospects, I have mixed feelings about that. On one hand I'm glad we kinda gave Tangradi a chance. I'd rather try and see that it doesn't work, then guess that it doesn't work, and lose the player (like Strait) only to see that it might have worked if we'd only tried.

But I still would have taken a shot at a bunch of reclamation projects/forwards. Hell, I even would have taken a shot at Tim Connolly when he was on waivers. Worse case is it didn't work out, and the Pens wasted 2.3m (his prorated salary for a 48 game season), and a contract spot... that's it. Where's the down side? Best case is he turns into a productive player playing the 1st PP and a top 6 role (wing).

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:36 PM
  #32
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Most glaring issue is the drafting though. He's had 7 drafts now and other than #2 pick Jordan Staal, he has produced a total of 0 nhl forwards. He seems to be good at drafting dmen, but it's getting to the point where the pens glut of dmen is leading to losing them for nothing. It took years for Whitney and Goligoski to reach the value needed to trade for Kunitz and Neal, and the rest of the guys we have coming up will not have the time necessary to prove themselves as nhl dmen. We're just going to start losing them like we did Strait. Shero's drafting strategy is leading to bad asset management.

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:38 PM
  #33
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This is hard to read.

I find his drafting suspect but he hasn't had a clear 1st round bust since Espo. His drafting beyond the first round is often more head scratching but time will tell. He has to be a feared trade partner though. I have full confidence in him not to get ripped off in a deal and expect him to almost always win the negotiations with the opposing GM.

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:39 PM
  #34
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I find it hard to blame Shero for much of anything outside of drafting (which, since I don't faithfully follow junior hockey or anything else, I know little about) and maybe trading. Complaining that we didn't get this UFA or that UFA is a little pointless when you have no idea what kind of conversations are going on. We don't really know why we didn't get whatever free agents are available. There are 29 other teams after all. Maybe we made offers and they didn't want to sign? It's a two-way street.

As far as trades go, the trade with Dallas was great. Whitney for Kunitz/Tangradi was great too. The Staal trade remains to be seen. Who knows. But yeah, trades are a two-way street too.

Coaching and motivating the players seems to be the issue to me at least.

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:44 PM
  #35
Riptide
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Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 View Post
Everybody whos talking about signing all these wingers u guys do theirs a salary cap right? The salary cap is going down 5 million next year and were gonna try to sign malkin and letang to more money. If they would of signed parise they wouldnt of been able to sign letang and malkin prob just one of them.
We have 11.5m in cap space next season, and the biggest player that needs to be re-signed is TK/Cooke/Dupuis. The following season Letang/Geno new contracts kick in. And odds are the cap will have gone up by then. Maybe not a lot, but more than enough to survive. Worse case, you trade/buy out Martin.

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:49 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Bunch of ****ing cherry picked garbage by some of you...

- Traded Gogo for Neal & Nisky....
- Traded Whitney for Kunitz and Tangradi
- Signed the best player in the game to an amazing contract
- Traded a guy who was going to leave us for free in a shortened 48 game season for Sutter, 8th pick, and Dumolin
- Went after Hossa, Suter, & Parise and even though they selected other teams, we were right in the mix.
- Signed 2 of the top 4 defenders available during UFA, who unfortunately have **** the bed since. He clears cap space, like everyone wanted, w/ Michalek.


I mean.. I think we should mix both lists and see what you think. And do it for other GMs, too. Ray Shero is great. He's done an amazing job through trades. He has missed a lot in UFA but that's because players are choosing other destinations or not panning out for us. Look at the names we were going after. Hamhuis, Parise, Martin, Michalek, Hossa, Jagr.... I mean what else do you want? If he would have signed Parise, you would have all acted as if he were a God.
Are you not simply cherry picking too by only highlighting his good transactions?

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01-30-2013, 06:03 PM
  #37
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I have faith in Shero. He made very very competitive offers to Parise and Suter. Made great trades in getting Neal,Niskanen,Kunitz and Tangradi for Goligoski and Whitney. Won the Hossa/Dupuis trade.And whenever he makes another good move I'd like to hear what his doubters have to say then. He's in the running for these guys and sooner or later he's going to land one. And he has loaded us with D prospects.

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01-30-2013, 06:10 PM
  #38
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I've got mixed feeling on him. He's made good/great trades. He's signed a lot of scrubs that didn't work out. He has yet to find a winger for Sid. And his drafts are questionable at best.

My problem with him specifically is the overall grit and toughness of this team has declined each year, leading us to what we have currently. Which, IMO, and as evidenced by last night, is a bunch of ball-less, heartless pansies. Remember when we used to 'get to our game', 'grind ****ers down', cycle, and hit everything that moved? Guys like Roberts, Guerin, Rupp, Talbot, Asham, etc have left, and basically replaced with guys like Jeffrey, Adams, Vitale (who I do like), Kennedy, and a completely worthless Matt Cooke.

Shero used to field teams that are just flat out menacing to play against. They could beat you with skill and/or they could beat you by grinding you down. I honestly don't remember seeing one single check last night. You think any of the guys I listed above would have stood there and watched their teammate get his head slammed through the boards in a 4-0 game on home ice?

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01-30-2013, 06:11 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
You are right, some including myself might be harsh. The thing about other GMs though is that many of them don't have what Shero started with as a foundation. Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Whitney, Gonchar, and a 2nd overall pick? Goligoski coming up? Letang?

He was smart that first year to just take it kind of slow and fill in the roster with capable players instead of jumping the gun like someone like Burke would've done. I'll always give him credit for that. There's two sides to this story though. After the Cup it leaves a little to be desired. Contracts like Cooke and Kunitz were brilliant moves. If the Cup is the focal point however things have been moving a little too slowly the last few years.
Lol, I had to do a quick google to look up Kris Letang's draft year because this whole time I was attributing him as the only successful Shero drafted player and now he's not. So what's that leave in the drafting/development area? Absolutely nothing, we have had absolutely no impact talent that is homegrown his entire time as GM which has been for 5 years... not counting the 2nd overall pick that was the no brainer and some say not even the best of the available options. I think that's beyond abysmal and those who want to cherry pick the trades that work out seem to gloss over his absolute HORRIBLE drafting and developing that has gone on under his watch.

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Old
01-30-2013, 06:19 PM
  #40
DoctrSteveBrule
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Originally Posted by Luigi Lemieux View Post
He's soft, but it's 50 pts that weren't replaced.

I don't think there's any doubt that this team is weaker on paper than it was last year, and by a pretty good margin.
pretty sure having Sid this season will cover those 50 points

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01-30-2013, 06:21 PM
  #41
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When he made the moves, they were mostly good moves - outside of that Michalek move, where I understand that Z wanted to go out of town, but that return was still horrible. Ottawa was interested, I doubt there wasn´t a better offer than this PHX crap.

My main problem is, he didn´t make enough moves to address our big holes and became too ****ing passive. He´s a smart solid guy, but sometimes you need a bit of Holmgren.

My criticism on Shero is based mostly on this last offseason. That was awful stuff with even worse outcome for us. I mean, how could you look like bunch of fools against your biggest rival and then come into the next season much weaker??

Shero looked soo pissed after that series. What about doing something for us to put the team into the better position to succeed? To give the team a serious chance? He´s more than responsible for recent things going downhill!

I loved him, but I am losing it now. And it´s going fast with every ****ing game I have to watch my beloved Pens to struggle.

And yeah, that Strait case didn´t help it either. Things are going bad for Ray. Come on, man, wake up and do something! And I don´t mean Ferriero/Kostopoulos.


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Old
01-30-2013, 06:23 PM
  #42
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This is an important year for the organization. With Malkin and Crosby healthy, it is almost Cup-or-bust time.

Shero has made the big move before, and I think it is coming.

In the meantime,w e need to be patient, and the onus is on the team to start putting in a greater effort to win games now.

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Old
01-30-2013, 06:27 PM
  #43
Gooch
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Bunch of ****ing cherry picked garbage by some of you...

- Traded Gogo for Neal & Nisky....
- Traded Whitney for Kunitz and Tangradi
- Signed the best player in the game to an amazing contract
- Traded a guy who was going to leave us for free in a shortened 48 game season for Sutter, 8th pick, and Dumolin
- Went after Hossa, Suter, & Parise and even though they selected other teams, we were right in the mix.
- Signed 2 of the top 4 defenders available during UFA, who unfortunately have **** the bed since. He clears cap space, like everyone wanted, w/ Michalek.


I mean.. I think we should mix both lists and see what you think. And do it for other GMs, too. Ray Shero is great. He's done an amazing job through trades. He has missed a lot in UFA but that's because players are choosing other destinations or not panning out for us. Look at the names we were going after. Hamhuis, Parise, Martin, Michalek, Hossa, Jagr.... I mean what else do you want? If he would have signed Parise, you would have all acted as if he were a God.
Trying to get certain UFA's but failing isnt exactly a good thing, it's a failure. Your first two points were things done with assets acquired from a previous GM. Crosby is signed to a great contract but that's if he's healthy. Lets not forget he had serious concussion issues to the point where he couldnt even obtain insurance to play overseas during the lockout. There was obvious risk involved and that had a HUGE part to play with the lowering of how much he was signed to. Yeah the trading of Staal was necessary but many here (myself included) feel like he absolutely wasted that draft pick by going after the same old type of prospect the team has in spades while ignoring the top forwards on the board who wouldve been a lot more helpful to the team's lack of significant depth at that position. Also, overpaying for a guy he has to dump off on Phoenix for a bag of pucks and another guy who there were serious talks about using a buyout on are not things that you should be pointing to as positives for his tenure.

The James Neal trade is the one thing that I can truly point to as a superior GM move. At the time everyone knew we won that trade and right now we all know we won that trade. It wasnt quite a Glenn Sather type trade but it was his best moment as a GM. Everything else out of him had a pick your poison type of aspect to it. Getting Kunitz and Tangradi for Whitney meant that we have a medicore and not the most cap friendly winger bolted to sids side for what seems like his life and a prospect that has likely been ruined by the coaching staff and prospect development team all of whom Ray Shero has responsibility for.

What are your takes on these moves?

Ponikarovsky trade

Leopold Trade

That goaltender we got at the deadline who I forgot his name already because all he did was sit on a stool for 2 months?

Ruslan Fedotenko

Strait on Wavers

The fact that outside of Staal (who was a no brainer pick) there has been no significant contributor to the team who has been a Shero draft pick. That is 5 years of drafting and nothing of significance produced.

The last is really the most important and significant one for me. A GM's responsibility is drafting and player development along with cap management trades and signings. While he has been good at cap management he has been downright abysmal at drafting/development. It's been a mixed bag with the trades and his free agent signings have been busts as well. I just don't see what's worthy of the love affair.

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01-30-2013, 06:30 PM
  #44
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OH MY GOD HE WAIVED BRIAN STRAIT! Don't just fire him, we should kill him! Oh yeah and Nick Johnson too!!! that move sure came back to bight us in the ass

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01-30-2013, 06:31 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Bunch of ****ing cherry picked garbage by some of you...

- Traded Gogo for Neal & Nisky....
- Traded Whitney for Kunitz and Tangradi
- Signed the best player in the game to an amazing contract
- Traded a guy who was going to leave us for free in a shortened 48 game season for Sutter, 8th pick, and Dumolin
- Went after Hossa, Suter, & Parise and even though they selected other teams, we were right in the mix.
- Signed 2 of the top 4 defenders available during UFA, who unfortunately have **** the bed since. He clears cap space, like everyone wanted, w/ Michalek.


I mean.. I think we should mix both lists and see what you think. And do it for other GMs, too. Ray Shero is great. He's done an amazing job through trades. He has missed a lot in UFA but that's because players are choosing other destinations or not panning out for us. Look at the names we were going after. Hamhuis, Parise, Martin, Michalek, Hossa, Jagr.... I mean what else do you want? If he would have signed Parise, you would have all acted as if he were a God.
Pretty much ALL this... I kept rolling my eyes reading the OP hand picked piss and moan crying like a baby this season "points"... OP really needs to ****.

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01-30-2013, 06:33 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
OH MY GOD HE WAIVED BRIAN STRAIT! Don't just fire him, we should kill him! Oh yeah and Nick Johnson too!!! that move sure came back to bight us in the ass
And Chad Johnson, and Jake Muzzin, and Matt Moulsen...

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01-30-2013, 06:39 PM
  #47
DoctrSteveBrule
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And Chad Johnson, and Jake Muzzin, and Matt Moulsen...
oh man. Jake Muzzin, that's what this team really need to become a champion.

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Old
01-30-2013, 06:39 PM
  #48
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Bylsma's head will roll before Shero got fired. If he knew his job was in risk he'd pull a trade or two to shake up the team and bring in a new coach.

Regardless of Shero staying or going... Bylsma would be gone before he would.

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01-30-2013, 06:39 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by PensBandwagonerNo272 View Post
This is an important year for the organization. With Malkin and Crosby healthy, it is almost Cup-or-bust time.

Shero has made the big move before, and I think it is coming.

In the meantime,w e need to be patient, and the onus is on the team to start putting in a greater effort to win games now.
Yeah, and Byslma has lost the room... this is not going to happen.

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01-30-2013, 06:40 PM
  #50
Gooch
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Bylsma's head will roll before Shero got fired. If he knew his job was in risk he'd pull a trade or two to shake up the team and bring in a new coach.

Regardless of Shero staying or going... Bylsma would be gone before he would.
Shero is prob just going to replace Bylsma with Tony Granato so I don't think anything is really going to be improved. We'll still have the same gaping holes on the roster and the horrible prospect development.

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