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Ray Shero

View Poll Results: Do you believe in Shero?
I believe in Shero. Heīs immortal after he brough us Neal 75 43.60%
Mixed feelings, gonna give him some time 75 43.60%
No longer believing in him. He had an awful off-season 22 12.79%
Voters: 172. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:40 PM
  #51
Ragamuffin Gunner
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Originally Posted by Will Hunting View Post
Personally, I think our problems are starting with him.

Here are some thoughts:

1) Heīs leaving Sid with Kunitz and Dupuis for years and forever.
2) He traded Michalek for garbage.
3) He promised that heīs gonna use that cap space, but he didnīt make it happen.
4) Failed on Suter/Parise and had no plan B.
5) He let Sullivan go. Sully was very good for us in 2nd half of season and in PO. He wanted to stay, almost for free. But Shero wanted to try Tangradi/garbage there with Malkin. Our PP now has no entry skill and no blueline patience, which Sully provided.
6) He didnīt bring somebody to replace Sullivan.
7) He continues to draft D-men.
8) Heīs trolling us with a lot of AHL signings instead of making something important

I am accepting that Staal trade and appreciating Vokoun addition.

But still, is it enough? Do you still believe in RS?
I voted on the 3rd option but I'm between 2 and three.

1 - We've been waiting for a winger for Sid and Geno for about 7 years now. Still waiting for Sid's winger.

2 - Giving away Michalek was a terrible move. He did it to clear cap room, but had no need to because he had enough space to sign a FA then move Z if he had to. Now we need another Dman to go with a winger or 2.

3 - Still waiting for him to do something with all this space and to see what it costs.

4 - He put all his eggs in the Parise basket and let almost every other FA sign while ZP jerked him around. Then he could have gotten Semin on a 1 year deal, but he's not a DB type player so F him.

5/6 - Another "give away for no reason".

7 - I prolly will never forgive him for drafting Pouliot over Fors or Grigs, TBH.

8 - All he does is sign AHL guys and 4th line vets that DB gets a ***** over.


I'll add sticking with DB too long and doing nothing at last year's TDL as well.

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:40 PM
  #52
Alesle
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I know we were in it. But look at his contract. Was it really that hard to beat DET there? Give Brunner 1-way and Crosby as his center and we are all happy. It looks like we were in for every winger and just end up with Tangradi, which is awful. No excuses.
The CBA prohibited teams from offering him a 1-way contract.

Excerpts from sections 9.1 and 9.4
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(a "European Player") who signs his first SPC at ages 25-27 shall be subject to the Entry Level System for one (1) year.
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Each SPC entered into with a Rookie in the Entry Level System shall automatically be deemed to be a "two way".
Furthermore, Detroit offered him the maximum possible base salary of $925,000
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If the NHLPA exercises its right to extend this Agreement until 2012, the maximum annual aggregate Paragraph 1 NHL Salary, Signing Bonuses and games played bonuses permitted to be paid to a Group 1 Player shall be U.S. $925,000.
The only area Penguins could possibly have offered a better deal is in regards to performance bonuses, where Brunner's $425,000 falls short of the leagues maximum 2,850,000 for an ELC. However, offering performance bonuses in that range is unheard of other than the very top draft prospects.

Lets face it; Penguins couldn't realistically have offered a better deal than Detroit. In all likelihood Brunner wanted to play in Detroit, and with the way we've generally handled young players the last few seasons I can't really blame him for not choosing us.


Last edited by Alesle: 01-30-2013 at 05:43 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old
01-30-2013, 05:41 PM
  #53
Will Hunting
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Pretty much ALL this... I kept rolling my eyes reading the OP hand picked piss and moan crying like a baby this season "points"... OP really needs to ****.
I made that list based mostly on last offseason (not cherry-picking). Last offseason was pretty brutal. You have it in the poll mentioned - last offseason.

Yeah, overall, Shero still made more positives than negatives. Probably. But itīs becoming close. Things are going downhill and thatīs a concern with him. Heīs just too passive and put us in a hole this summer. After horrible series Holes should be filled, not created!!! Then, even Straitīs case hurts when you doubt about some things.

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01-30-2013, 05:42 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
oh man. Jake Muzzin, that's what this team really need to become a champion.
yeah that Muzzin who they threw out there with Doughty in the waning minutes of last night's game, replacing Scuderi. real ****ing worthless.

the way Shero lets admittedly minor talent slip away isn't the team's greatest problem but it's pretty damn annoying, especially when coupled with his less than stellar draft record.

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Old
01-30-2013, 05:44 PM
  #55
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We have 11.5m in cap space next season, and the biggest player that needs to be re-signed is TK/Cooke/Dupuis. The following season Letang/Geno new contracts kick in. And odds are the cap will have gone up by then. Maybe not a lot, but more than enough to survive. Worse case, you trade/buy out Martin.
we only have 15 players signed next year. That 11.5m is to cover 8 players. Even if u trade martin u need to add 9 players with 16.5 million. Your just not gonna have alot of money to sign wingers when u gotta pay sid and malkin.

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01-30-2013, 05:44 PM
  #56
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OH MY GOD HE WAIVED BRIAN STRAIT! Don't just fire him, we should kill him! Oh yeah and Nick Johnson too!!! that move sure came back to bight us in the ass
This is the crap that annoys me. We arent talking about a Strait who years down the line turned into a useful player, we're talking about a guy within a couple of days after being put on waivers logging a lot of minutes and being quite decent. Meanwhile if you're even watching this team you'd have realized that our D has not looked good and most notably the guy who was the obvious choice of replacement (Lovejoy) has been horrible. So it's a very legitimate criticism to lay on a GM when our defense has looked bad for quite a while now. Anyways, it was one in a long list of mistakes made and kinda a silly one for you to cherry pick as you're just flat out stupid with it.

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01-30-2013, 05:45 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
yeah that Muzzin who they throw out there in OT with Doughty replacing Scuderi. real ****ing worthless.

the way Shero lets admittedly minor talent slip away isn't the team's greatest problem but it's pretty damn annoying, especially when coupled with his less than stellar draft record.
Wait we're talking about Jake Muzzin, the guy with 11 career NHL games right? And as far as "playing with Doughty..." its not hard to look pretty good playing with Doughty. Especially when you're not asked to do anything.

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01-30-2013, 05:48 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Will Hunting View Post
I made that list based mostly on last offseason (not cherry-picking). Last offseason was pretty brutal. You have it in the poll mentioned - last offseason.

Yeah, overall, Shero still made more positives than negatives. Probably. But itīs becoming close. Things are going downhill and thatīs a concern with him. Heīs just too passive and put us in a hole this summer. After horrible series Holes should be filled, not created!!! Then, even Straitīs case hurts when you doubt about some things.
Have you not been a penguins fan long? If you really want to see some terrible GMing you should have checked out Craig Patricks final few year here.

Shero has been good to great as a GM... to me the only think he has done terribly wrong is invest so much time & effort / picks in Dan Bylsma and his "system"...

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01-30-2013, 05:51 PM
  #59
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Way to skew the wording of the poll options so that even the positive response is negative. Useful.

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01-30-2013, 05:52 PM
  #60
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Way to skew the wording of the poll options so that even the positive response is negative. Useful.
Seriously, Lock up this POS thread.

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01-30-2013, 05:53 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Way to skew the wording of the poll options so that even the positive response is negative. Useful.
Yeah I didn't vote because of that. Its either "he's bad" or "he's good but I'm a mindless sheep"

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01-30-2013, 05:54 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
Wait we're talking about Jake Muzzin, the guy with 11 career NHL games right? And as far as "playing with Doughty..." its not hard to look pretty good playing with Doughty. Especially when you're not asked to do anything.
what's the point in only discussing "championship-caliber moves." nobody's calling for him to get fired because he's let bottom-pairing defensemen slip away. but it points to a larger trend with regards to talent evaluation and asset-management.

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01-30-2013, 05:55 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by ObsessedCreative View Post
Have you not been a penguins fan long? If you really want to see some terrible GMing you should have checked out Craig Patricks final few year here.

Shero has been good to great as a GM... to me the only think he has done terribly wrong is invest so much time & effort / picks in Dan Bylsma and his "system"...
Patrick has nothing to do with this. Letīs talk about Shero. What do you think about recent offseason? What do you think about our near future? Are we OK? I donīt think so.

Also, Ray stood pat on last TDL. It wasnīt very succesful.

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01-30-2013, 06:00 PM
  #64
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Seriously, Lock up this POS thread.
As annoying and baseless as the premise behind the poll is, Shero discussion is a valid topic so as long as people stay civil it'll remain open. I said my peace on Shero in the other thread earlier today. People look for overly simplistic answers / forget how many weak GMs there are out there, and on balance, how lucky we are to have Shero.

The coaching thing is definitely a situation he needs to address and if he doesn't I'm all for criticizing him, but let's actually wait and see what he does first. People cherry pick all these stupid things that are either not really in Shero's control (or only partially), and use that as justification... but.... that's how it is. People have their opinions.

Mostly everyone is pissed off right now so whenever that happens everyone looks to blame someone pretty much, myself included. I put things much more squarely on Bylsma's inability (or unwillingness) to change than anything else right now.

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01-30-2013, 06:01 PM
  #65
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Yeah I didn't vote because of that. Its either "he's bad" or "he's good but I'm a mindless sheep"
Sorry, that wasnīt intentional. I wanted to highlight the best move he did, nothing against him in this one. Iīve loved Shero too long, but things are going miserably right now for him and for us. I wanted to point some fingers. Heīs definitely responsible in some categories.

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01-30-2013, 06:03 PM
  #66
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Patrick has nothing to do with this. Letīs talk about Shero. What do you think about recent offseason? What do you think about our near future? Are we OK? I donīt think so.

Also, Ray stood pat on last TDL. It wasnīt very succesful.
Shero went hard after the TWO BIGGEST NAMES OUT THERE... they DID NOT WANT TO COME HERE.

What the hell else was he supposed to do? Put a gun to their heads and force them to sign here at gun point... the rest of the market was complete and utter trash.

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01-30-2013, 06:06 PM
  #67
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we only have 15 players signed next year. That 11.5m is to cover 8 players. Even if u trade martin u need to add 9 players with 16.5 million. Your just not gonna have alot of money to sign wingers when u gotta pay sid and malkin.
That's 11.5m to sign 2 3rd line wingers, Dupuis (to either play 3rd wheel in the top 6 or as a 3rd liner), and your 4th line. At most that's somewhere between 5-7m MAX. And a 7th D (rookies on an ELC so 700-800k). And if you move Martin, that free's up another 5m. Which means that with Martin, you have between 4.5-7.5m to sign a winger as long as it expires at the end of next season. Obviously the less the contract is, the easier it is to fit it on a longer term deal.

You're not getting it. Cap space (currently - or for next season) IS NOT OUR ISSUE.

Come year 3, then there's more of a concern (assuming you signed said winger for more than 2 seasons) as Letang and Malkin's new contracts kick in. But even then you still have outs. You trade Cooke (who'll likely get 1.5-2.0m if he stays) or someone like him. Or you buy our Martin's 5m, and play some of those rookies who are in WBS.

We're not Calgary who's tied down with tons of old crappy contracts with lots of NTC's. Look, if you go look at any post I've written when it comes to how cap space is used, you'll see that I'm pretty conservative, and truly value it. However when Shero moved Z and didn't get any salary in return, he really free'd up a lot of space. So basically the rest of this season, and next season cap space is meaningless, and there's absolutely no reason not to use every bit of it.

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01-30-2013, 06:06 PM
  #68
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I'm fine with Ray Shero but I'm sure he wishes he could've done more to get Parise but he was only go where Suter went and it was highly unlikely we were going to get both. I'll give him time.

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01-30-2013, 06:07 PM
  #69
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Which teams made moves at during last year's TDL? Prices were ridiculous, I'm glad Shero didn't overpay on a desperation move.

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01-30-2013, 06:07 PM
  #70
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Shero went hard after the TWO BIGGEST NAMES OUT THERE... they DID NOT WANT TO COME HERE.

What the hell else was he supposed to do? Put a gun to their heads and force them to sign here at gun point... the rest of the market was complete and utter trash.
Itīs not only Suter/Parise. Thatīs why I mentioned 8 points at the beggining. All are connected with our recent offseason. Yeah, and you have to have a plan B. Even when marketīs not very attractive, he could do better than this.

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01-30-2013, 06:08 PM
  #71
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I shudder to think of what this roster would look like without the pieces Craig Patrick assembled that were handed to Shero. If we had to rely on his drafting and his free agent signings we'd have a horrible team. The only think he actually acquired with "his" pieces were Sutter and the bag of pucks he got for Michelek.

Im astonished at the level of approval he gets from some members of the fanbase. What is really striking is how a lot of angst is directed at Bylsma but from those very same people they assign none of that blame on Shero even though a lot of their criticism are roster based, or they conveniently overlook the fact that Shero is Bylsma's boss.

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01-30-2013, 06:11 PM
  #72
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apparently Shero is supposed to develop his bottom 10 picks faster than anyone ever.

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01-30-2013, 06:11 PM
  #73
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I shudder to think of what this roster would look like without the pieces Craig Patrick assembled that were handed to Shero. If we had to rely on his drafting and his free agent signings we'd have a horrible team. The only think he actually acquired with "his" pieces were Sutter and the bag of pucks he got for Michelek.

Im astonished at the level of approval he gets from some members of the fanbase. What is really striking is how a lot of angst is directed at Bylsma but from those very same people they assign none of that blame on Shero even though a lot of their criticism are roster based, or they conveniently overlook the fact that Shero is Bylsma's boss.

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01-30-2013, 06:11 PM
  #74
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Which teams made moves at during last year's TDL? Prices were ridiculous, I'm glad Shero didn't overpay on a desperation move.
Yeah, buying at a TDL is often a fool's move. If anything he should be selling non essential parts at that period of time maximizing their value in order to have a consistently good team.

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01-30-2013, 06:12 PM
  #75
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Sorry, that wasnīt intentional. I wanted to highlight the best move he did, nothing against him in this one. Iīve loved Shero too long, but things are going miserably right now for him and for us. I wanted to point some fingers. Heīs definitely responsible in some categories.
By the end it seems it was actually intentional

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