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Giroux vs. Tavares

View Poll Results: Who do you take on your team, now and in the future?
Claude Giroux 68 29.44%
John Tavares 163 70.56%
Voters: 231. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-01-2013, 03:08 PM
  #151
Trafalgar Law
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Tavares without a doubt for me. There are literally 3 players in the NHL I'd take over JT (Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos)

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02-01-2013, 04:51 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutdown Sutter View Post
How can I argue against such a concrete sample size? How about that Patrick Marleau, that guy's on par with Gretzky, eh?

I never said Tavares is "marginally talented". He's a very good, talented player. He's not even close to elite yet though. There are a solid 8-10 centers better than he is. Could he be someday? Maybe. But Giroux ALREADY IS elite.
this right here is probably the most ignorant statement I've read on these boards. You would have a hard time finding 5 better centers than Tavares right now

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02-01-2013, 05:58 PM
  #153
Roo Mad Bro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streit Power View Post
this right here is probably the most ignorant statement I've read on these boards. You would have a hard time finding 5 better centers than Tavares right now
Not as ignorant as people saying that Bryzgalov is "the worst goaltender in the NHL".

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Old
02-01-2013, 06:01 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Not as ignorant as people saying that Bryzgalov is "the worst goaltender in the NHL".
but he is


for the poll Giroux easily. little bit better offence much better defence

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02-01-2013, 06:19 PM
  #155
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If I have to choose now and future, it's Tavares (younger, similar numbers and so on.)

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02-01-2013, 06:28 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutdown Sutter View Post
How can I argue against such a concrete sample size? How about that Patrick Marleau, that guy's on par with Gretzky, eh?

I never said Tavares is "marginally talented". He's a very good, talented player. He's not even close to elite yet though. There are a solid 8-10 centers better than he is. Could he be someday? Maybe. But Giroux ALREADY IS elite.
You do realize that Tavares was 4th in scoring among centers as a 21 year old, right? Giroux had 27 career NHL points at that age.

The only players who finished higher in league-wide scoring (8th) at JT's age last season lockout to lockout were Malkin, Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos and Staal.

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02-01-2013, 06:48 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Not as ignorant as people saying that Bryzgalov is "the worst goaltender in the NHL".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkin112 View Post
but he is


for the poll Giroux easily. little bit better offence much better defence
hes not the worst. reimer's pretty bad. ive been impressed with his play this season alot.

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02-01-2013, 10:01 PM
  #158
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tavares didnt even think twice

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Old
02-02-2013, 12:29 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streit Power View Post
this right here is probably the most ignorant statement I've read on these boards. You would have a hard time finding 5 better centers than Tavares right now
Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Giroux, Datsyuk, Sedin, Thornton, Kopitar.

All of them have proven significantly more than Tavares has with the exception of Giroux, whose proven peak is much higher than Tavares' proven peak.

I'm going to say this in bold letters so you and the rest of the people with terrible reading comprehension in this thread can understand:

John Tavares is a very good player with great potential, I do not deny that. I think he has the potential to be better than all of those players except Crosby, Malkin, and Stamkos. But until he consistently outperforms and accomplishes more than those other players, you can not say he is better than them. Because you would just be basing that off his potential.

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02-02-2013, 12:34 AM
  #160
Art of Sedinery
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutdown Sutter View Post
Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Giroux, Datsyuk, Sedin, Thornton, Kopitar.

All of them have proven significantly more than Tavares has with the exception of Giroux, whose proven peak is much higher than Tavares' proven peak.

I'm going to say this in bold letters so you and the rest of the people with terrible reading comprehension in this thread can understand:

John Tavares is a very good player with great potential, I do not deny that. I think he has the potential to be better than all of those players except Crosby, Malkin, and Stamkos. But until he consistently outperforms and accomplishes more than those other players, you can not say he is better than them. Because you would just be basing that off his potential.
How do you know Tavares' proven peak when he is 22 years old?

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Old
02-02-2013, 07:03 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Champions of Nothing View Post
How do you know Tavares' proven peak when he is 22 years old?
By "proven peak" he means his peak thus far, not his "potential peak." And yes, Giroux HAS had more points than Tavares. So despite any attempt to argue Tavares has a higher ceiling or potential, an argument that Giroux is a currently better player has to be respected. And this talk of "elite" is so pointless and arbitrary. I hate that term.

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02-02-2013, 08:47 AM
  #162
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Tavares

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02-02-2013, 10:50 AM
  #163
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Tavares without thinking twice.

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02-02-2013, 04:58 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Giroux had 93 points last year Tavares had 81 all be it in 4 more games that isn't that far off not to mention when Giroux was 21 he had 27 points in 47 games.
Not really fair to bring up that season with Giroux considering the minutes he played and it has no relevance really. Also, 12 points is a heck of a lot especially in four fewer games. 12 points is close to a seventh of Tavares' point total that year. If Giroux had played those four games and even managed one PPG it would be 16. That's a lot.

Not really fair to compare the present considering the Philly situation. At least I think so. Ceiling wise I think they're very close. 90 to 100 point players with Tavares being the better goal scorer and Giroux the better play maker and better one on one with the goalie. I'd stick with what I know and that's Giroux. Close though. Plus I think Giroux is a rarer breed in terms of play style compared to Tavares.

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02-02-2013, 05:30 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Not really fair to bring up that season with Giroux considering the minutes he played and it has no relevance really. Also, 12 points is a heck of a lot especially in four fewer games. 12 points is close to a seventh of Tavares' point total that year. If Giroux had played those four games and even managed one PPG it would be 16. That's a lot.

Not really fair to compare the present considering the Philly situation. At least I think so. Ceiling wise I think they're very close. 90 to 100 point players with Tavares being the better goal scorer and Giroux the better play maker and better one on one with the goalie. I'd stick with what I know and that's Giroux. Close though. Plus I think Giroux is a rarer breed in terms of play style compared to Tavares.
Alright since this year is to small to use, use both this season and last season
Tavares 89 games 35 goals 57 assists for 92 points
Giroux 85 games 30 goals 67 assists for 97 points

there isn't that much of a difference between them except Tavares is several years younger so he has a better chance to get better.

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02-02-2013, 05:33 PM
  #166
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Alright since this year is to small to use, use both this season and last season
Tavares 89 games 35 goals 57 assists for 92 points
Giroux 85 games 30 goals 67 assists for 97 points

there isn't that much of a difference between them except Tavares is several years younger so he has a better chance to get better.
Uh...I said its close. Several times. Not sure what you're reading.

Why include this season at all?

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02-02-2013, 06:58 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
I love how all the Rangers fans come in hearing saying Giroux. A little jelly?
LOL yeah, im sure Ranger fans are losing over your one good player, while they are perenial cup contenders

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02-02-2013, 07:01 PM
  #168
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I see that this poll is evidently only taking the last 2 weeks into account and not the past 2/3 years.

There's no place for AINEC here because it is close but Giroux has a 90+ point season and until Tavares does it he can't be considered on the same plane. There's a huge difference between 80 points and 90.


Last edited by 1865: 02-02-2013 at 07:07 PM.
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02-02-2013, 07:03 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Alright since this year is to small to use, use both this season and last season
Tavares 89 games 35 goals 57 assists for 92 points
Giroux 85 games 30 goals 67 assists for 97 points

there isn't that much of a difference between them except Tavares is several years younger so he has a better chance to get better.
He's only 2 years younger...

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02-02-2013, 07:40 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Uh...I said its close. Several times. Not sure what you're reading.

Why include this season at all?
Probably easier to tell who is better now based solely on the past?

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02-02-2013, 07:42 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
He's only 2 years younger...
2 years is huge especially at 23 at the same age Giroux had 47 points in 82 games.

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02-02-2013, 07:57 PM
  #172
Garbage Goal
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Probably easier to tell who is better now based solely on the past?
Actually yes considering this season is eight game old and a condensed schedule following a lockout. Not a large enough sample size or even normal circumstances.

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02-02-2013, 08:02 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Actually yes considering this season is eight game old and a condensed schedule following a lockout. Not a large enough sample size or even normal circumstances.
You can't act like the start of this season doesn't matter. Or else we would only look at their stats over the last ~70 games of the season last year, not the whole year.

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02-02-2013, 08:04 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Actually yes considering this season is eight game old and a condensed schedule following a lockout. Not a large enough sample size or even normal circumstances.
Its a better sample size to use both no?

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02-02-2013, 08:37 PM
  #175
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by Champions of Nothing View Post
You can't act like the start of this season doesn't matter. Or else we would only look at their stats over the last ~70 games of the season last year, not the whole year.
It really doesn't. It's 8 games. That's a hot or cold streak for most players.

Are you actually arguing that the first right games of a lockout shortened season has any relevance to this discussion? Anyone that knows statistics know that small sample sizes don't matter for much.

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