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02-07-2013, 02:43 PM
  #926
Nasty Nazem
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
I was talking about packaging Bargs + 1st for a PWF. Not just to dump him.
They would probably be getting a crappy or overpaid PWF as no team would trade a good PWF with a good contract for a crappy contract in Bargnani who is also a PWF. A mid 1st round pick doesn't hold that much value either.

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02-07-2013, 02:44 PM
  #927
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Just get rid of Andrea. Let Amir play.

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Old
02-07-2013, 03:02 PM
  #928
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I find it classless that the fans at the game last night booed Bargs. What good is it going to do to boo the guy, the fans should have been behind their big PF/C after coming back from injury. Maybe he hasn't lived up to expectations and had player poor before going out with an injury, I can't help but find this totally classless and stupid.

It does nobody any good, the player or the teammates or even management. Was there really any need to boo him seriously? It's like these boards, there are only a hand full of people who post in here when things are quiet on the Raptor front. Then they make a trade and all of a sudden there posters coming out of the wood work who know everything there is to know about everything player and Raptor related.

Bargs is what he is, he has been since coming into the league and was never pegged as a defensive or rebounding monster. He's a 7' forward who can spread the floor and create mismatches. Anyone who wants a 20 point player who grabs 12 boards and blocks 2-3 shots a game is going to be disappointed.

Fans have to be reasonable and realistic, Bargs can score inside and out side, for a 7 foot player he is and has always been weak defensively 1 on 1 but does play good in zone defensive systems as we saw in the past. He's not a great rebound though he is good for around 5 a game. Personally I don't see any better options out there for Toronto atm.

There is no way BC trades him for under-market value and right now at 10 million+ a season and coming back off injury and under performing before the injury Bargs value is probably at an all time low. Take into account the fact that now the fans at the ACC are starting to get on his back this forcing the GM's hand to do something and probably making the player himself now uncomfortable/disgruntled.

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02-07-2013, 03:37 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Joey24 View Post
I find it classless that the fans at the game last night booed Bargs. What good is it going to do to boo the guy, the fans should have been behind their big PF/C after coming back from injury. Maybe he hasn't lived up to expectations and had player poor before going out with an injury, I can't help but find this totally classless and stupid.

It does nobody any good, the player or the teammates or even management. Was there really any need to boo him seriously? It's like these boards, there are only a hand full of people who post in here when things are quiet on the Raptor front. Then they make a trade and all of a sudden there posters coming out of the wood work who know everything there is to know about everything player and Raptor related.

Bargs is what he is, he has been since coming into the league and was never pegged as a defensive or rebounding monster. He's a 7' forward who can spread the floor and create mismatches. Anyone who wants a 20 point player who grabs 12 boards and blocks 2-3 shots a game is going to be disappointed.

Fans have to be reasonable and realistic, Bargs can score inside and out side, for a 7 foot player he is and has always been weak defensively 1 on 1 but does play good in zone defensive systems as we saw in the past. He's not a great rebound though he is good for around 5 a game. Personally I don't see any better options out there for Toronto atm.

There is no way BC trades him for under-market value and right now at 10 million+ a season and coming back off injury and under performing before the injury Bargs value is probably at an all time low. Take into account the fact that now the fans at the ACC are starting to get on his back this forcing the GM's hand to do something and probably making the player himself now uncomfortable/disgruntled.
Oh come on man you really think this bothers the players? The fans pay a lot of money to watch a good basketball game, be entertained and have a chance to win ever night. Not sure why you're so vehemently defending the guy. Are you his agent? So you think because he stretches the floor that excuses his terrible defensive play, lack of strength and ability to go to the hole, terrible TS% and inefficiency, lack of effort (which is really what rebounding is, effort, boxing out and positioning), no success besides one playoff appearance (which he barely had any effect on seeing as we had Bosh and Nesterovic) since coming to the league (look at Portland, Boston and Memphis who all took players that made their team a lot better and we could've taken any of those players).

The fact that Bargnani when with this team is a disaster, so I think he has earned it. He's going to have to really play his ass off and earn the trust back from the fans to get any kind of respect back. He is considered a bust and is dogging it out there worse than Vince ever did.

You don't think he deserves the boos? Big surprise he comes back and they lose again. Maybe he didn't have as much directly to influence the game but just him being on the court effects his teammates play.

Also you have to understand that probably most of those boos aren't for Bargnani either. Half the blame has to go to management and ownership for not trying to move the guy. It's a way for the fans to tell BC that we've had enough of the mediocrity and that if he doesn't go then you go.

The only other things the fans can say that will get noticed is to not go to the games or watch on TV but that's not gonna happen in a crazy market like Toronto.

EDIT: Oh and just for the record I wouldn't have personally booed and I don't necessarily condone it. It is pretty classless to boo your current players but he's probably now the most hated player in Toronto so what can fans really do? BC also kinda brought this on himself by saying they are actively shopping Bargnani. I really think it has to do with the teams success with him out of the line-up too that brought it on. Haters gonna hate.


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02-07-2013, 04:41 PM
  #930
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02-07-2013, 04:49 PM
  #931
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Oh come on man you really think this bothers the players? The fans pay a lot of money to watch a good basketball game, be entertained and have a chance to win ever night. Not sure why you're so vehemently defending the guy. Are you his agent? So you think because he stretches the floor that excuses his terrible defensive play, lack of strength and ability to go to the hole, terrible TS% and inefficiency, lack of effort (which is really what rebounding is, effort, boxing out and positioning), no success besides one playoff appearance (which he barely had any effect on seeing as we had Bosh and Nesterovic) since coming to the league (look at Portland, Boston and Memphis who all took players that made their team a lot better and we could've taken any of those players).

The fact that Bargnani when with this team is a disaster, so I think he has earned it. He's going to have to really play his ass off and earn the trust back from the fans to get any kind of respect back. He is considered a bust and is dogging it out there worse than Vince ever did.

You don't think he deserves the boos? Big surprise he comes back and they lose again. Maybe he didn't have as much directly to influence the game but just him being on the court effects his teammates play.

Also you have to understand that probably most of those boos aren't for Bargnani either. Half the blame has to go to management and ownership for not trying to move the guy. It's a way for the fans to tell BC that we've had enough of the mediocrity and that if he doesn't go then you go.

The only other things the fans can say that will get noticed is to not go to the games or watch on TV but that's not gonna happen in a crazy market like Toronto.

EDIT: Oh and just for the record I wouldn't have personally booed and I don't necessarily condone it. It is pretty classless to boo your current players but he's probably now the most hated player in Toronto so what can fans really do? BC also kinda brought this on himself by saying they are actively shopping Bargnani. I really think it has to do with the teams success with him out of the line-up too that brought it on. Haters gonna hate.
Of course it effects the player or players being booed especially by home court fans. Look at Chris Bosh the other night when the Toronto fans booed him. He said he didn't understand why the booed him but it lit a fire under him and he played one of his better games of the season.

The effect is just as real when it comes to booing your own players, I have seen it first hand in the mid 90's being at those games when the boo birds were all over Larry Murphy, poor guy was shaking every time he stepped onto the ice and this is a HHOF were talking about here. To say it doesn't effect the players because they get paid to play is a bit far fetched. No matter how professional they are or try to be it defiantly does hurt them and it does leave a lasting impression on players and the kind of environment they are or will potentially be getting them selves into signing with a team like the leafs, or raptors.

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02-07-2013, 04:57 PM
  #932
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Of course it effects the player or players being booed especially by home court fans. Look at Chris Bosh the other night when the Toronto fans booed him. He said he didn't understand why the booed him but it lit a fire under him and he played one of his better games of the season.

The effect is just as real when it comes to booing your own players, I have seen it first hand in the mid 90's being at those games when the boo birds were all over Larry Murphy, poor guy was shaking every time he stepped onto the ice and this is a HHOF were talking about here. To say it doesn't effect the players because they get paid to play is a bit far fetched. No matter how professional they are or try to be it defiantly does hurt them and it does leave a lasting impression on players and the kind of environment they are or will potentially be getting them selves into signing with a team like the leafs, or raptors.
I didn't even watch the game but according to RealGM the booing wasn't even that loud. It's blown way out of proportion again. Hyperbole is nothing new with the media.

Also so it's classless for our fanbase to boo their own players, but the Leafs fans are okay to do it or chant "Let's go Bluejays" ad nauseam and other fanbases of other NBA teams with known hostile environments like the Sixers and Knicks fans are exempt from it?

Again I don't condone it but it wasn't even that bad. Blown out of proportion.

Also just cause it, according to you, it effected Bosh doesn't mean it doesn't affect others. In fact, the fact that Bosh played BETTER cause of it, is proof of that. Booing is supposed to hurt the other teams player, or at least that's what it was designed to do, not make them play better. All booing does is make a player more focused. For another example, look at how many times Reggie Miller burned the Knicks back in the 90's with all the booing he got. He stated many times that he liked the booing and made him play better.

Booing is like "being clutch" it's overrated.

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02-07-2013, 05:01 PM
  #933
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Marc Stein is reporting that the Bulls and Raptors are talking about a Bargnani for Boozer deal.

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02-07-2013, 05:07 PM
  #934
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Marc Stein is reporting that the Bulls and Raptors are talking about a Bargnani for Boozer deal.
Yes please.

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02-07-2013, 05:08 PM
  #935
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Marc Stein is reporting that the Bulls and Raptors are talking about a Bargnani for Boozer deal.
God lord BC. Boozer is an even worse contract than Bargs.

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02-07-2013, 05:18 PM
  #936
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God lord BC. Boozer is an even worse contract than Bargs.
Boozer is the type of player Bargnani is gonna get back at his value. That is pretty horrible.

I was the game where Boozer torched us a couple weeks ago. But seriously...... BOOZER!?

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02-07-2013, 05:20 PM
  #937
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Boozer is the type of player Bargnani is gonna get back at his value. That is pretty horrible.

I was the game where Boozer torched us a couple weeks ago. But seriously...... BOOZER!?
Again, I'd rather amnesty Bargnani than take back a contract like Boozer's.

A core of Gay/Derozan/Boozer/Lowry sounds terrible and not fun to watch.

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02-07-2013, 05:21 PM
  #938
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We can still amnesty Boozer in the near future right? Basically, instead of being stick with someone we don't need, we get a player we can actually use.

I don't really see what's so bad about it. If you don't wanna give up any additional assets, this is the best we can do.

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02-07-2013, 05:22 PM
  #939
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Boozer has been on and off this year. Horrendous contract however.

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02-07-2013, 05:26 PM
  #940
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We can still amnesty Boozer in the near future right? Basically, instead of being stick with someone we don't need, we get a player we can actually use.

I don't really see what's so bad about it. If you don't wanna give up any additional assets, this is the best we can do.
Nope. You can't amnesty contracts you trade for. The contract had to be on your team before the lockout.

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02-07-2013, 05:36 PM
  #941
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Boozer has decent this year. But his contract is brutal.


He is a poor man's Zack Randolph. We are kind of starting to resemble the Memphis team.


Lowry=Conley Both non pass first point guards
Gay=Gay
Boozer=Randolph Both Strong low post players
Valancuinas=Gasol I see alot of M.Gasol when I see Valancuinas play.

The only difference is they have a lock down defender at the 2, we have an athletic scorer. But our teams would be very similar, if we took on Boozer


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02-07-2013, 05:45 PM
  #942
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Rudy Gay has a PER of 20.83 in his first three games with the Raptors

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02-07-2013, 05:45 PM
  #943
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We can still amnesty Boozer in the near future right? Basically, instead of being stick with someone we don't need, we get a player we can actually use.

I don't really see what's so bad about it. If you don't wanna give up any additional assets, this is the best we can do.
What if they worked it out to do Bargnani + Fields for Boozer, then we amnesty Kleiza?

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02-07-2013, 05:47 PM
  #944
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I can sort of see the reason we would want to pick up Boozer. With the team we have constructed, we have no one really who can get dirty and get in the low post and pound it in the paint. We are very athletic but have no one offensively to clock up the paint. And no Aaron Gray doesn't count.

Boozer would allow us to play a more inside-outside game. And have better rebounding. I know how effective he can be when his game is on. I have to say, the more I think about it, the more I can understand it. Would like to get a 3rd team involved to see if we can a little bit more out of it than just Boozer though.


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02-07-2013, 05:53 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
We can still amnesty Boozer in the near future right? Basically, instead of being stick with someone we don't need, we get a player we can actually use.

I don't really see what's so bad about it. If you don't wanna give up any additional assets, this is the best we can do.
I'm not sure if you can amnesty a contract you trade for.

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02-07-2013, 05:58 PM
  #946
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If the Bulls were willing to take Landry Fields in a deal along with Bargnani, I would do the Boozer deal in a heartbeat.

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02-07-2013, 05:59 PM
  #947
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What if they worked it out to do Bargnani + Fields for Boozer, then we amnesty Kleiza?
That sounds about right. I just don't like our depth after that.

I think the trade would be C.Boozer+ M.Teague+ N. Mohammed for A.Bargnani, L.Fields and a future 2nd round pick.

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02-07-2013, 06:08 PM
  #948
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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
Marc Stein is reporting that the Bulls and Raptors are talking about a Bargnani for Boozer deal.
I'd think another piece would be going back to Chicago to match the salaries. If they take Fields, I'd do that.

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02-07-2013, 06:15 PM
  #949
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I'm not sure if you can amnesty a contract you trade for.
Yep. You can't amnesty a contract you trade for. Has to be with his own team pre-lockout and must stay on the team to be eligible.

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02-07-2013, 06:28 PM
  #950
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Would love Boozer for the rebounding alone, if they take Bargs + another bad contract. Imagine having Amir, Boozer and Val in rotation? Would be solid all around, defensively and offensively.

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