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Game 8: Columbus vs. St. Louis | 1/31 7PM EST

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Old
02-01-2013, 07:58 AM
  #276
JacketsDavid
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Trying to sell season tickets for this team for 2013-14 might be the most challenging job in all of major league sports.
Long term this team may be in big trouble. They are betting on the team playing hard and providing entertainment. They are basically giving away tickets trying to get people in there for January and February games ($10 seats for STH, $25 seats for Nationwide Employees, $10 student tickets sold in advance, $25 lower bowl tickets for partial game ticket holder plans). One of the TV stations even said before the first practice that JD addressed the team and told them to play hard or they wouldn't be here. To me it's very clear they were banking on these guys at least playing entertaining hockey and getting the fan base excited (think back to year 1).
Unfortunately like most years the only guys who play hard are the guys with little NHL skills. The entertainment factor isn't there most nights. Not sure about attendance last night but barely 10k earlier this week with all the discounted tickets around?
You can do the math if the STH base is 7k (it was reported differently to Business First and the Dispatch) but I'm guessing the low number. Assume $50/seat (mis of club, lower, upper) and 45 home games and that is a base of only $16M from STH. That is the scary number. Imagine if youre running a business and expected payroll is $55M plus rent, operations, management and you're only assured inflow is $16M from tickets (other inflows from advertisers obvioulsy) but they are digging a deep hole.

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02-01-2013, 08:28 AM
  #277
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I felt a lot better about this team two weeks ago. These games have been brutal to watch.

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02-01-2013, 08:53 AM
  #278
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On the bright side I had Elliot as my fantasy goalie last night

JD's first move should be to hire the scout who found Tarasenko
Found? Jarmo didn't find him, Tarasenko was held in high regard as a top 10 player in the draft but fell due to the Russian factor.

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02-01-2013, 08:58 AM
  #279
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My late report.

I really feel that St. Louis is a pretty tough team to gauge how good these Jackets are on. I don't care who is playing the Blues, they are going to have a tough time against this team. Big, fast, skilled, and able to play Hitch hockey and at the same time score plenty of goals. This team was made for Hitch, and they haven't turned on him like the Nash led CBJ did.

They scored their three goals, said "thank you very much and good night" and played lock-down for the rest of the game. Especially in the third period. Dump the puck in our end then line 4 guys up on the blue line. The fact that we ended up having the same amount of shots as them bears that out. Had they had to, they would have continued to attack.

Erixson looked OK, but had two horrible turnovers. Those two did not lead to goals. He needed to move the Blues player out of the crease on the one goal. Bob was totally screened.

Other than one rush, I did not really notice JAM.

Brass looked better, Umby looked samo, samo to me, and I thought Johan played fine.

Good news was that the guys did make a statement in the second period, and I give the decisions on all the fights to the CBJ players.

Until the CBJ figure out how to take advantage of their scoring chances, we are not going to win many games, and probably zero games against teams with the talent that the Blues have. There is a reason that many pick them to win the Cup. They have it all.

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02-01-2013, 09:05 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by JacketsDavid View Post
Long term this team may be in big trouble. They are betting on the team playing hard and providing entertainment. They are basically giving away tickets trying to get people in there for January and February games ($10 seats for STH, $25 seats for Nationwide Employees, $10 student tickets sold in advance, $25 lower bowl tickets for partial game ticket holder plans). One of the TV stations even said before the first practice that JD addressed the team and told them to play hard or they wouldn't be here. To me it's very clear they were banking on these guys at least playing entertaining hockey and getting the fan base excited (think back to year 1).
Unfortunately like most years the only guys who play hard are the guys with little NHL skills. The entertainment factor isn't there most nights. Not sure about attendance last night but barely 10k earlier this week with all the discounted tickets around?
You can do the math if the STH base is 7k (it was reported differently to Business First and the Dispatch) but I'm guessing the low number. Assume $50/seat (mis of club, lower, upper) and 45 home games and that is a base of only $16M from STH. That is the scary number. Imagine if youre running a business and expected payroll is $55M plus rent, operations, management and you're only assured inflow is $16M from tickets (other inflows from advertisers obvioulsy) but they are digging a deep hole.
Well said. We are the new Phoenix/Atlanta. The target is now on our backs.

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02-01-2013, 09:05 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
It's about time for JD to get to work.
I don't know JD and I don't work for the CBJ, so this is all conjecture on my part, but this is what I believe.

He is, of course, already working. (The joke here is "Do you think someone would watch this team for fun?" And yes, the joke has an ironic double-back-meaning, doesn't it?)

He knew what the roster was when he took the job. If we could tell the team would struggle to score (even hoping against hope that someone's hard work would translate into scoring, which could still happen), certainly JD could tell. If we knew we still weren't sure we had an answer in net, certainly JD did. If we knew there were questions marks but cause for optimism on the blueline... you get my point.

I think we're fooling ourselves if we think that this team's offensive (another double-meaning) ineptitude is going to be solved right quick by a couple trades or something before the season's over. Like ol' Rummy said, "You go to war with the army you have." I think that's what we'll see this year. Any trades made in-season will be minor and, I'd guess, have very little impact on the team's ability to score, at least in the very-near future.

The good news is, this is a short season. And JD is working. Meantime, we're going to have to hope for growth from the young players, more than 30 minutes of effort a night and the occasional glimpse at what might come to be.

I'm not saying I like it. As a fan, I've always preferred the team win games, even when others were calling for losses to help draft position. But I think we're just going to have to hunker down and ride this thing out.

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02-01-2013, 09:16 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Dr. Fire View Post
My late report.

I really feel that St. Louis is a pretty tough team to gauge how good these Jackets are on. I don't care who is playing the Blues, they are going to have a tough time against this team. Big, fast, skilled, and able to play Hitch hockey and at the same time score plenty of goals. This team was made for Hitch, and they haven't turned on him like the Nash led CBJ did.

They scored their three goals, said "thank you very much and good night" and played lock-down for the rest of the game. Especially in the third period. Dump the puck in our end then line 4 guys up on the blue line. The fact that we ended up having the same amount of shots as them bears that out. Had they had to, they would have continued to attack.

Erixson looked OK, but had two horrible turnovers. Those two did not lead to goals. He needed to move the Blues player out of the crease on the one goal. Bob was totally screened.

Other than one rush, I did not really notice JAM.

Brass looked better, Umby looked samo, samo to me, and I thought Johan played fine.

Good news was that the guys did make a statement in the second period, and I give the decisions on all the fights to the CBJ players.

Until the CBJ figure out how to take advantage of their scoring chances, we are not going to win many games, and probably zero games against teams with the talent that the Blues have. There is a reason that many pick them to win the Cup. They have it all.
Well said. Again we find ourselves talking about picking it up in the second when we're already down 2 goals. The Blues are a very tough team as you mentioned and strong starts are needed, especially against a talented team like them. I'm still waiting for us to have a lead and actually try to hold one instead of playing catchup every game. We need to win at least 2 of these games on this home stand if we want any hope of being a competitive team at the least.

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02-01-2013, 09:17 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by JacketsDavid View Post
Long term this team may be in big trouble. They are betting on the team playing hard and providing entertainment. They are basically giving away tickets trying to get people in there for January and February games ($10 seats for STH, $25 seats for Nationwide Employees, $10 student tickets sold in advance, $25 lower bowl tickets for partial game ticket holder plans). One of the TV stations even said before the first practice that JD addressed the team and told them to play hard or they wouldn't be here. To me it's very clear they were banking on these guys at least playing entertaining hockey and getting the fan base excited (think back to year 1).
Unfortunately like most years the only guys who play hard are the guys with little NHL skills. The entertainment factor isn't there most nights. Not sure about attendance last night but barely 10k earlier this week with all the discounted tickets around?
You can do the math if the STH base is 7k (it was reported differently to Business First and the Dispatch) but I'm guessing the low number. Assume $50/seat (mis of club, lower, upper) and 45 home games and that is a base of only $16M from STH. That is the scary number. Imagine if youre running a business and expected payroll is $55M plus rent, operations, management and you're only assured inflow is $16M from tickets (other inflows from advertisers obvioulsy) but they are digging a deep hole.
I think that you are putting the cart before the horse here. The casual fans are not going to give a **** about whether the team plays hard. Only the hardcore hockey fans will. The casual fans won't be back until they start looking at the standings and see the Jackets doing well, or until they start hearing a buzz about the team from friends and the media.

Just playing hard won't bring them or the band-wagoners back. Playing hard is meant to hang on to the die-hards, because if they lose them, then they will be toast.

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02-01-2013, 09:23 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
I don't know JD and I don't work for the CBJ, so this is all conjecture on my part, but this is what I believe.

He is, of course, already working.

I think we're fooling ourselves if we think that this team's offensive (another double-meaning) ineptitude is going to be solved right quick by a couple trades or something before the season's over.
I would think the assumption would be that people would like to see something visible. We understand he is working in the background. From my perspective, I think he's doing person by person analysis within all segments of the team. Coaching staff, scouting, players, etc as well as preparing heavily for the draft. I fully expect to use all three draft picks, unless we package to move up.

Is 8 games enough to make a judgement on these players? Well for us it might be, as we have history. For JD, probably not.

Any move at the deadline I expect to be there to clear out dead weight. At this moment in time RJ is dead weight. I don't expect any trade that would immediately help the team. Maybe some inexpensive trade for a young player that might help us down the line. The reality is that we are not ready for a Cup run, even if we might improve to the point of making a playoff push. Meaning, no need at this time to spend much in assets to improve this team.

This has nothing to do with the game last night. However at the same time, the first period killed us and I think our improvement as the game went on was, in part, to the Blues letting up on us a bit. I suspect Hitch wasn't thrilled with the second period.

Ultimately JAM got better as the game went on, I thought he earned another game. I didn't have much thought on Erixon one way or another, well other than the late game penalty that sealed it. Erixon didn't do anything to make anyone want to keep him on the roster.

Brassard is starting to get a clue, it's been a slow building process over the last few games. He still isn't playing any where close to his contract value, but he is making improvements. Frankly, I would still rather still see Johansen/Dubinsky/Letestu/AA/DM as our top 4 center options. Meaning if Brassard is to stick, I beginning to think it is going to be at wing.

As much as I like RJ, I think it's time to sit down and explain that it is probably in the best interest of the team to get rid of that NTC and see if we can find another home for him. He is massively redundant on this team now and we have cheaper options to fill his slot.

The reality is, we are probably going to have another top 3 pick. In this draft that is probably a guy we can move immediately into the top six. Someone is going to have to go.


Last edited by blahblah: 02-01-2013 at 09:36 AM.
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Old
02-01-2013, 09:35 AM
  #285
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I would think the assumption would be that people would like to see something visible. We understand he is working in the background. From my perspective, I think he's doing person by person analysis within all segments of the team. Coaching staff, scouting, players, etc as well as preparing heavily for the draft. I fully expect to use all three draft picks, unless we package to move up.
Then read my post as merely reinforcing the notion that he's not going to do anything visible, because he is doing the kind of analysis you suggest.

Quote:
Is 8 games enough to make a judgement on these players? Well for us it might be, as we have history. For JD, probably not.
I agree. (Although it's never stopped 'us' before.)

Quote:
Any move at the deadline I expect to be there to clear out dead weight. I don't expect any trade that would immediately help the team. Maybe some inexpensive trade for a young player that might help us down the line. The reality is that we are not ready for a Cup run, even if we might improve to the point of making a playoff push. Meaning, no need at this time to spend much in assets to improve this team.
Agree.

Quote:
This has nothing to do with the game last night.
OK. My post was spurred by a post in the GDT.

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02-01-2013, 09:44 AM
  #286
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Good post DSL.

With only 24 home games, the Jackets are probably just going to try to get through this year with as little financial bleeding as possible. My guess is that the ticket deals are just going to keep on coming, hoping to make some money on concessions to stay afloat.

Season ticket sales next year are likely going to be scary low. I think McConnell is banking on the fact that we can hopefully gain some traction and momentum next year even though the Jackets are going to hemorrhage money. He's hoping there will be some evidence that the Jackets are back on the upswing that the fans can cling to. I fear that there could be record low attendance all next year while we wait to see if that's true or not.

Their best hope is to nail this year's draft, pray that at least some of our young players develop to their potential, get some of the underperforming contracts off the books, and get the All Star Game back in 2015. If all these stars align, the Jackets have a chance to start crawling back financially in 2014-2015. It's going to be tough sailing unless players like Cam and Johan can join JJ in igniting the fan base as marketable stars.

Maybe the Jackets owners and front office know something we don't, but I'd have a hard time sleeping at night if I owned this team right now.

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02-01-2013, 09:50 AM
  #287
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Maybe the Jackets owners and front office know something we don't, but I'd have a hard time sleeping at night if I owned this team right now.
You probably want to wait and see what the numbers are going to look like.

Some assumptions you've made may not be accurate. Some clarifications.

1. We fixed some revenue stream issues.
2. I doubt the STH numbers are going to drop as much as you suggest, if at all.
3. If you prorate out this season to a full year, we spent much less on contracts. That will probably improve revenue sharing numbers.
4. The new CBA does have some revenue sharing improvements.

The end of the 2013-14 season should provide some deep insight on this teams financial strength. Until then we are just guessing and probably a poor guess at that.

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02-01-2013, 09:51 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Dr. Fire View Post
I think that you are putting the cart before the horse here. The casual fans are not going to give a **** about whether the team plays hard. Only the hardcore hockey fans will. The casual fans won't be back until they start looking at the standings and see the Jackets doing well, or until they start hearing a buzz about the team from friends and the media.

Just playing hard won't bring them or the band-wagoners back. Playing hard is meant to hang on to the die-hards, because if they lose them, then they will be toast.
I guess we will disagree. Hockey is entertainment. if the fans are entertained they'll be back. That doesn't mean (IMO) scoring 5 goals a night, it means playing hard. Good physical hockey to the casual fan, where the players look like they are giving their all. Again I reference year 1 when we had little/no talent but the team played hard virtually every night. Yes hockey was new, but that led the team to selling out every home game in year 2.
Since that year this team has always had a questionable work ethic on the ice. Now that 1st year team was special and I remember saying that I didn't think we would ever see a CBJ team play so hard, so often. But since then we've mostly seen a lot of effort from guys who are at best 4th line guys (think about the Jody Shelley's) and a lot of standing around by the guys with even average NHL talent.
Again it's just IMO but I think if you do get a hard working team (in this market compare it to a physical football team) that people will get behind guys like that and want to watch them.
Mngt/Ownership can't count on this team winning (to draw fans) for a few years. They (the players) need to play the right way, play hard and show improvement. That will bring the casual fan back.

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02-01-2013, 09:52 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Nanabijou View Post
Good post DSL.

With only 24 home games, the Jackets are probably just going to try to get through this year with as little financial bleeding as possible. My guess is that the ticket deals are just going to keep on coming, hoping to make some money on concessions to stay afloat.

Season ticket sales next year are likely going to be scary low. I think McConnell is banking on the fact that we can hopefully gain some traction and momentum next year even though the Jackets are going to hemorrhage money. He's hoping there will be some evidence that the Jackets are back on the upswing that the fans can cling to. I fear that there could be record low attendance all next year while we wait to see if that's true or not.

Their best hope is to nail this year's draft, pray that at least some of our young players develop to their potential, get some of the underperforming contracts off the books, and get the All Star Game back in 2015. If all these stars align, the Jackets have a chance to start crawling back financially in 2014-2015. It's going to be tough sailing unless players like Cam and Johan can join JJ in igniting the fan base as marketable stars.

Maybe the Jackets owners and front office know something we don't, but I'd have a hard time sleeping at night if I owned this team right now.
Yeah, I was coming at it from a player personnel standpoint. On the business side, it's a rough go for sure. Totally agree with your last point.

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02-01-2013, 10:00 AM
  #290
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Long term this team may be in big trouble. They are betting on the <snip>
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Well said. We are the new Phoenix/Atlanta. The target is now on our backs.
Not sure I understand the alarmism.

It's going to take some time to rebuild, right? Surely the idea of short term pain financially has been discussed among management. What are they supposed to try? Yet another 'quick fix'? It is what it is. If they can't get these guys to play, they have to live with it if they truly want to go the Pittsburgh/Chicago route and rebuild with high picks. The only semi-reasonable option they have it to ship out one of the passengers in a 'shake up' trade, but that seems unlikely.

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02-01-2013, 10:08 AM
  #291
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Maybe I'm just in the minority again, but what exactly is there to rebuild from?

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02-01-2013, 10:08 AM
  #292
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For STH that are here, we may have the opportunity to ask JD these questions ourselves at the morning skate tomorrow. Finally back on the 'list', I received an invite to attend and a session with JD was mentioned. Could be enlightening...these things tend to be rather candid.

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02-01-2013, 10:10 AM
  #293
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Not sure I understand the alarmism.
To suggest we "have a target on our back" and we are "the next Atlanta/Phx" is highly inaccurate on many levels.

Ownership isn't looking to sell. If they are, the team can't move. Nationwide, a minor holder, doesn't want us to move. The city/county doesn't want us to move and we have a contract to stay for decades. We even improved our revenue streams.

No, there is little in the way of parallels.

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02-01-2013, 10:11 AM
  #294
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Maybe I'm just in the minority again, but what exactly is there to rebuild from?
build, rebuild, you know what I mean. Point is, there's a direction and a plan. It was never going to happen this year. Certainly we can be disappointed in the lack of consistent effort and 'being hard to play against' that we were promised, but at the end of the day, it's a process and I don't think anyone in the front office is deluded enough to believe that it wasn't going to be a rough ride for a few years. Shoot, as bad as it might get, they're still likely lose less than they did prior to the arena deal.

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02-01-2013, 10:20 AM
  #295
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Hitchcock is helping that Blues roster play to their potential. NHL coaches are paid to win and not protect their longevity. The guy wins and he continues to get hired as a result. If he wants to coach after they 'tune him out' in St. Louis, I am sure he will have a lineup of teams waiting for him. Jackets were idiots to get rid of him.
I agree, only the last sentence is debatable.

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02-01-2013, 10:23 AM
  #296
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I agree, only the last sentence is debatable.
Sure. Having said that he did far more with his roster here than the coaches after with what we provided. Pretty sure his record here was 125-123-36. Not spectacular, but we've seen nothing else close to that before or since.

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02-01-2013, 10:25 AM
  #297
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The reality is, we are probably going to have another top 3 pick. In this draft that is probably a guy we can move immediately into the top six. Someone is going to have to go.
Great point here. If it's any year to have a top 3 pick, it's this year. Immediate impact players and a deep draft class. Remember, we have THREE first round pick. Although, the latter 2 will most likely be later based on the performance of the Kings/Rangers. The team will not tank the season as they definitely have something to prove. They also need to win the fans back (as has been documented plenty of times in this forum/thread), it's a winning state in Ohio and they need to continue the trend or they will lose more fans quicker and quicker. Cavs and Buck-eyes are just to name a few teams where fans will be much interested in watching. They are blessed with great sports teams and Columbus has to do something to fit in.

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02-01-2013, 10:38 AM
  #298
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Maybe I'm just in the minority again, but what exactly is there to rebuild from?
Nothing. All hope is lost. Abandon ship. Save yourself the time and misery.

  • Our farm teams are worst in their respective leagues, and no one on them will ever contribute.
  • The team will never get a top draft pick.
  • The league is totally stacked against us, as evident by every call the refs make.
  • Things never ever get better in sports, as evidence by the fact that the Detroit Dead Things are still in the bottom of the league and haven't won anything important.
Seriously, what did people go into this season expecting? That in a shortened season with major roster overhaul that the worst team in the league would suddenly become a first place team by trading away it's best player, having a shortened training camp, and no exhibition games in order for the new players to learn from?

It would have taken a miracle for this team to make the playoffs under normal circumstances, but that doesn't mean that there isn't good players, coaches, and front office staff somewhere burred in the midst of things. Something to build from in the future.

But if you can't see that there are potential positives, I hear there is a fairly good college football team in your city, maybe they are more worth your time.

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02-01-2013, 10:39 AM
  #299
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Nothing. All hope is lost. Abandon ship. Save yourself the time and misery.

  • Our farm teams are worst in their respective leagues, and no one on them will ever contribute.
  • The team will never get a top draft pick.
  • The league is totally stacked against us, as evident by every call the refs make.
  • Things never ever get better in sports, as evidence by the fact that the Detroit Dead Things are still in the bottom of the league and haven't won anything important.
Seriously, what did people go into this season expecting? That in a shortened season with major roster overhaul that the worst team in the league would suddenly become a first place team by trading away it's best player, having a shortened training camp, and no exhibition games in order for the new players to learn from?

It would have taken a miracle for this team to make the playoffs under normal circumstances, but that doesn't mean that there isn't good players, coaches, and front office staff somewhere burred in the midst of things. Something to build from in the future.

But if you can't see that there are potential positives, I hear there is a fairly good college football team in your city, maybe they are more worth your time.
Skraut, you've completely missed my point. Wooten caught it. Its not that we have nothing to build from its that we have nothing to "rebuild from", which would imply past successes.

And Portzline blocked you on twitter you say?

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02-01-2013, 10:40 AM
  #300
pete goegan
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Just catching up, this last page has contained some very enlightened discussion and a number of well-considered posts on the current and future direction of the team. Thanks.

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