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Game 8: Columbus vs. St. Louis | 1/31 7PM EST

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:41 AM
  #301
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was at the game last night and didn't know to laugh or cry over the lack of offense and defense... wow is all i can say at this juncture of the year. was thinking our defense would help our young forwards move the puck a lil better out of our own zone but that has yet to be seen.is it just me or does jj and wiz under performing and making bad passes and waiting to long to shoot. telegramming shots makes it much easier to stop for opposing goalies.umberger just seems lazy and lost at times.but i do think mason has performed a lil better in last 2 games he has played which is always a welcome site.i know it's going to be built 1 brick at a time this could be the biggest masonery job that john davidson has had to do ever in his career but he did say he like the challenges that he has embarked and this is a challenge. go jackets

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02-01-2013, 10:50 AM
  #302
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Sure. Having said that he did far more with his roster here than the coaches after with what we provided. Pretty sure his record here was 125-123-36. Not spectacular, but we've seen nothing else close to that before or since.
What we see in St. Louis isn't what we saw in Columbus.

After being fired, Hitch reinvented himself and updated his game. He admitted it was a big reason why he got the gig with the Blues. If we had kept him, he wouldn't have had the time or need to revamp his overall strategy for coaching.

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02-01-2013, 11:27 AM
  #303
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My thoughts from last night...

The Columbus Blue Jackets have little to no skill. When Derick Brassard is one of your most skilled players, you're in trouble.

Johansen once again was the best player for the Jackets. Once he starts to score (when?) I think that he will live up to his draft status. He's a beast on the puck and makes good decisions on the ice.

Erixon and Audy-Marchessault are not ready for primetime. I know why they are on the farm at this point. JAM has some speed and plays hard, but he needs the seasoning. Erixon seemed discombobulated out there. He takes penalties when out of position (took 2 last night).

Mason was good last night. Two highlight type saves last night (one glove, one pad). If he was in all night, might have been a different result (first two goals Bob had two giant butts in his face).

Tarasenko will make a living between the dots. He makes you hold your breath everytime he gets the puck and he's not afraid of contact. The next elite forward in the NHL.

I wish that the Jackets had a line like Perron-Backes-Oshie, they are dangerous and very physical, they make things happen on both ends of the ice.

Umberger...what is there to say...START EARNING YOUR PAYCHECK. He is either out-of-shape or injured. I'm thinking the former. He looks like he has a piano on his back.

Wiz and Johnson, you can start giving us your best every night...ANY TIME NOW. The veterans need to step up and lead by example.

Dubinsky is going to lose it on someone soon. I caught his interview after the game on the news last night and he literally looked like he was seething. That's good, harness that and take it out on the opponent.

I'm liking the Foligno trade more and more. I like his style of play, he's willing to do the dirty work.

Boll, MacKenzie, Dorsett and Foligno...all decent fights, mostly decisions in our favor. DD probably bit off more than he could chew with Stewart, both literally and figuratively (did he bite Stewart?).

All in all, pretty horrible effort for about 30-40 minutes and the game was over at the ten minute mark of the first period.

That is all.

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02-01-2013, 11:37 AM
  #304
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Crede, I agree 100%. Hitch did say that as he sat around unemployed he realized he needed a new approach. 100% recognition to him for doing so and he has done well. But it is folly to assume he would have ever made that move but for the extended period of unemployment that caused him to reflect upon where he was in his career. At the time he was fired, he deserved to be fired. But I respect him as a man who recognized the need to change and did so with gusto.

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02-01-2013, 11:42 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
Skraut, you've completely missed my point. Wooten caught it. Its not that we have nothing to build from its that we have nothing to "rebuild from", which would imply past successes.

And Portzline blocked you on twitter you say?
If the Blue Jackets ever hope to compete for the Stanley Cup they need to at the very least rebuild their level of skill, compete, and coaching back to the point it was in 2009 when they made the playoffs. That is why it is called a rebuild. If you have regressed from where you once were you can not go beyond without at least building back to where you once where.

I'm sorry if I went over the top in pointing out the flaws in your logic.

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02-01-2013, 12:11 PM
  #306
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So apparently Dorsett bit Stewart last night.

https://twitter.com/Aportzline/statu...02607922733056

Not cool.

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02-01-2013, 12:39 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
What we see in St. Louis isn't what we saw in Columbus.

After being fired, Hitch reinvented himself and updated his game. He admitted it was a big reason why he got the gig with the Blues. If we had kept him, he wouldn't have had the time or need to revamp his overall strategy for coaching.
Too much supposition to even remotely have an meaningful conversation. Red herring approach to debate. For example, Hitch couldn't do with this team what he has been able to do with the Blues even if he wanted to. Hitch could never have allowed this team to play the style the Blues are currently playing and been employed a year later. He played the style that was necessary with the pile of crap he was handed and produced respectable results, at least.

Point, Hitch did far more with this team than any coach in the history of this org with a pretty untalented group. For example, the defense we are bringing out now if far superior to what Hitch had to work with. If we want to spin the conversation so we can feel better, sleeping at night, keeping Hitch over Howson, so be it. What I said stands on it's own. Our stupidity as an org is well documented and we are trying to resolve it, so water under the bridge now.

We can go on and on about reinvention and the such. However, when Hitch walked into the room with the other three (Priest/Howson/The other Mac) the hockey knowledge went up 10 thousand fold. Howson may be able to scout a player, but he hasn't got much of a clue on how to build an on ice winner.


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02-01-2013, 12:58 PM
  #308
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Too much supposition to even remotely have an meaningful conversation. Red herring approach to debate. For example, Hitch couldn't do with this team what he has been able to do with the Blues even if he wanted to. Hitch could never have allowed this team to play the style the Blues are currently playing and been employed a year later. He played the style that was necessary with the pile of crap he was handed and produced respectable results, at least.

Point, Hitch did far more with this team than any coach in the history of this org with a pretty untalented group. For example, the defense we are bringing out now if far superior to what Hitch had to work with. If we want to spin the conversation so we can feel better, sleeping at night, keeping Hitch over Howson, so be it. What I said stands on it's own. Our stupidity as an org is well documented and we are trying to resolve it, so water under the bridge now.

We can go on and on about reinvention and the such. However, when Hitch walked into the room with the other three (Priest/Howson/The other Mac) the hockey knowledge went up 10 thousand fold. Howson may be able to scout a player, but he hasn't got much of a clue on how to build an on ice winner.
I'm not saying firing Hitch was right or wrong. I'm saying we can't use what Hitchcock is doing right now as a direct (or really even indirect) measure of what he would be doing here had he stayed.

That's to the people who are saying "Wah look at what he's accomplishing in St. Louis right now!"

He has changed drastically from 2 years ago. That's a fact which has been discussed and documented. After he was fired he went around scouting players and completely overhauling his approach to coaching. I think it's beyond obvious to say that his being fired from Columbus was what prompted this revision.

Also it's not a red herring as it's relevant to the conversation. If anything it's a straw man because it's such an easy and obvious argument to make.

As for Howson, that's largely a "whatever" situation. Guess what, ownership has some unnatural love for the man. Our record under him is atrocious. But "whatever" ownership loves him anyways. People fixate on his drafting ability but, to me, that isn't THAT bad. His only real "miss" was Filatov but he's done well with Voracek (a young, solid top-6 player for the Flyers), John Moore, Ryan Johansen, Boone Jenner, and likely Ryan Murray. His problem in my opinion has been his hiring practices, specifically coaching staff. I think he's drafting or acquiring talented individuals who fail in part because of the team system and part because of themselves.

What the team needs as far as players are guys who don't need constant supervision and guidance in order to succeed. We need guys who will be able to succeed on their own. That is due to the fact that we cannot for some reason build a foundation or establish an identity. Only once we get a group of guys who will sink or swim on their own regardless of who is coaching them or holding their hands will we establish a culture with the team. Players come in and don't immediately think "Columbus, hard team, I better play my best" like they do in Detroit or Nashville. They don't respond to coaches or management. So what we need is accountability in the locker room. If they don't care what the organization thinks about them, we need their teammates to demand accountability night in and night out from them. That's also in an essence what John Davidson is looking for. That's why we have 3 A's and no C's. Because he wants to see who the first one will be to put RJ Umberger up against the locker and say "dude, you are making over $4 million dollars to do this but look terrible, what the hell?"


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Old
02-01-2013, 01:21 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
I'm not saying firing Hitch was right or wrong. I'm saying we can't use what Hitchcock is doing right now as a direct (or really even indirect) measure of what he would be doing here had he stayed.
Then why did you respond to me the first time? It was a fairly benign post with no intent. I only stated statical fact, you went off on a tangent trying to explain why.

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02-01-2013, 01:36 PM
  #310
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So, what about that Nik Zherdev, huh? That was something.

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02-01-2013, 02:01 PM
  #311
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So, what about that Nik Zherdev, huh? That was something.
His disappearing act would be welcome at this point. At least he was there half the time.. :p

He may not have been hard to play against most of the time, but I guess he was hard to play with. That's something.

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02-01-2013, 02:08 PM
  #312
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And that business with Ray Whitney. Wow!

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02-01-2013, 02:29 PM
  #313
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And that business with Ray Whitney. Wow!
Oh sure, keep it up... :p

Ray Whitney, can't believe that Dougie wouldn't give him another year. *******!

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02-01-2013, 02:46 PM
  #314
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So, what about that Nik Zherdev, huh? That was something.
Yep. That was something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC2bcKLyT2Y

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02-01-2013, 02:53 PM
  #315
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So apparently Dorsett bit Stewart last night.

https://twitter.com/Aportzline/statu...02607922733056

Not cool.
It sucks because I would say that Stewart is just being an ass but apparently not if they crushed us and he's saying after that. If it was after a loss I would say cry me a river. Dang, hopefully this doesn't escalate into anything that's going to hurt us. No review by Shanahan


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02-01-2013, 03:47 PM
  #316
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Ah...personally I don't care either way, Chris Stewart can be just as cheap of a player and in my opinion a huge *********. From what I saw, it looked like he started the physical side of the fight anyways. Dors went down so fast Im not really sure at what point he could have possibly thought to concentrate on biting Ol' Stewie. I still remember when he scored at Nationwide (might have been his first game here with the Boos) Anyway he turned around looked at the crowd and waved his arms up like we were supposed to give him a standing O. Eff him. Maybe Dors gave him rabies.

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02-01-2013, 03:56 PM
  #317
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Nothing. All hope is lost. Abandon ship. Save yourself the time and misery.


Seriously, what did people go into this season expecting? That in a shortened season with major roster overhaul that the worst team in the league would suddenly become a first place team by trading away it's best player, having a shortened training camp, and no exhibition games in order for the new players to learn from?

It would have taken a miracle for this team to make the playoffs under normal circumstances, but that doesn't mean that there isn't good players, coaches, and front office staff somewhere burred in the midst of things. Something to build from in the future.

But if you can't see that there are potential positives, I hear there is a fairly good college football team in your city, maybe they are more worth your time.

I'll tell you what I expected:
  • RJ, Brassard, and Dubinsky to score a goal between them each game.
  • Dubrosky not to suck in the first 10 minutes.
  • Johansen to be a step ahead of last year rather than on par with it.
  • A defense that did not play like they were actors on the other team's highlight reel.
  • Is .500 too much to expect ? .400 ?
  • 60 minutes, not 30 and 40 of effort as their own COACH has been accusing them publicly of.

I know we have picks and youngsters coming. Every year this will be the case.

So let me call out the "we're rebuilding" excusers:
If we are truly "rebuilding" then we should DUMP Wiz and JJ's contracts and get something MORE to rebuild with. Why waste millions on guys who will probably not be on the team when it the "rebuild" has finally made us competitive? I'm not suggesting we do that, but if you're in the "rebuilding excuses" camp, then go ALL IN.


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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Just catching up, this last page has contained some very enlightened discussion and a number of well-considered posts on the current and future direction of the team. Thanks.
You know they gots the crème now for "Low T"

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02-01-2013, 04:08 PM
  #318
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You know they gots the crème now for "Low T"
Intelligent commentary is infrequent enough to warrant notice. Besides, I'm in touch with my feminine side.

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02-01-2013, 04:11 PM
  #319
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To answer Skraut:

What I hoped to see was something different than past seasons. We've always had a below average team talent wise, that more times than not didn't play hard. We've always struggled to score enough goals even with a 30 goal scorer playing for us.

This year we have yet to play a complete 60 minute game. Our offense is horrible (which isn't a surprise), our goal tending is below average (again not a surprise), but I expected the defense to be better and I expected them to play harder.

Let me ask you a question - what do you see in this "building/rebuilding" season that makes you think it's different from the past? About the only thing I can think of is that JD is in charge, but again we thought things would be better getting rid of Doug, and we thought last season by adding our new "Consultant" Patrick that things would get better. I see nothing on the ice that tells me things are going to get better - besides the fact that we have a better change to get a top 3 pick in a deep draft.

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02-01-2013, 04:24 PM
  #320
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Oooh.....new Archer tonight
And....my wife deleted it off DVR....got to wait until Sunday for replay...now I am ticked

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02-01-2013, 04:47 PM
  #321
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To answer Skraut:

What I hoped to see was something different than past seasons. We've always had a below average team talent wise, that more times than not didn't play hard. We've always struggled to score enough goals even with a 30 goal scorer playing for us.
I didn't. Every year this team has remade itself, and there has always large amounts of turnover either in the front office or on the ice. Each year the team has to either learn new teammates, or learn a new system, and that continues this year. So why should the results be any different than previous years?

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This year we have yet to play a complete 60 minute game. Our offense is horrible (which isn't a surprise), our goal tending is below average (again not a surprise), but I expected the defense to be better and I expected them to play harder.
The first game was a full 60, but the remaining ones weren't. Our goaltending is in the bottom half of the middle third of the league, so while that is technically "Below Average" it is better than it has been in years. You can expect the defense to be better, but without an offense to cary some of the load, and have the puck for some of the time, the team will never be successful. Even a defense of 6 Nik Lidstrom clones wouldn't be able to win games on their own if they had to spend the entire game in their own zone.


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Let me ask you a question - what do you see in this "building/rebuilding" season that makes you think it's different from the past? About the only thing I can think of is that JD is in charge, but again we thought things would be better getting rid of Doug, and we thought last season by adding our new "Consultant" Patrick that things would get better. I see nothing on the ice that tells me things are going to get better - besides the fact that we have a better change to get a top 3 pick in a deep draft.
We finally have a minor league team that is respectable. We've developed some later round picks. This shortened season means the fans don't have to sit through as many losses before we get to the draft, but it is long enough to figure out who should be here and who shouldn't. It'll also let us know what works, and what doesn't with Todd Richards system, once the players get a chance to actually learn it.

Maybe I had moderate expectations drilled into me from a young age as I grew up a fan of all Cleveland sports, but I was already waiting for next year before this one started. The future is bright, but it won't be here today, tomorrow, or even this week. I'm ok with that, I can still go to the arena and have a good time.

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02-01-2013, 05:08 PM
  #322
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We finally have a minor league team that is respectable. We've developed some later round picks. This shortened season means the fans don't have to sit through as many losses before we get to the draft, but it is long enough to figure out who should be here and who shouldn't. It'll also let us know what works, and what doesn't with Todd Richards system, once the players get a chance to actually learn it.
Several key points in one brief paragraph.

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02-01-2013, 05:32 PM
  #323
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Seriously, what did people go into this season expecting? That in a shortened season with major roster overhaul that the worst team in the league would suddenly become a first place team by trading away it's best player, having a shortened training camp, and no exhibition games in order for the new players to learn from?
Amazingly, it sounds like the answer is yes? As has been pointed out, WE'RE 8 GAMES IN. Jackets were worst team in the league last season by far. Last night, against an elite team, there was an ADDITIONAL 2 (Erixson and JAM) players who had never played for the Jackets, and another (Savard) who has not played regularly, and not at all with the other 6 new players, not to mention with JJ or Letestu.

I too was raised on Cleveland teams so maybe I share your impatience with a lot of the impatience in this thread for the same reason. But we're 8 games in with a roster that a significant portion of still has the new car smell. Which would be challenging enough even with a training camp. Still people want to call the team a joke.

This team is different than last year's team. Last year, down by two goals meant game over. This year, we've seen them come back from that deficit multiple times (alas, only once to win the game). Sure it sucks to get down by two goals to begin with, but this year they're not quitting.

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02-01-2013, 05:34 PM
  #324
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We finally have a minor league team that is respectable. We've developed some later round picks. This shortened season means the fans don't have to sit through as many losses before we get to the draft, but it is long enough to figure out who should be here and who shouldn't. It'll also let us know what works, and what doesn't with Todd Richards system, once the players get a chance to actually learn it.

Maybe I had moderate expectations drilled into me from a young age as I grew up a fan of all Cleveland sports, but I was already waiting for next year before this one started. The future is bright, but it won't be here today, tomorrow, or even this week. I'm ok with that, I can still go to the arena and have a good time.
I want to focus on the comment about the minor league team. It is nice that they are doing well, but the question is whether them doing well will translate into anything for the Jackets. Take a look at that team. See any forwards that are going to help solve our huge offensive problems in Columbus? Closer to home, has the improvement at Springfield improved the development of a player like Johansen who still doesn't seem to have the scoring touch at the NHL level?

So, I'm not ready to celebrate Springfield's success just yet because it isn't clear it is anything more than a case of building a good minor league team that can compete as men against boys.

What later round picks have we developed? Cam Atkinson, a guy who hasn't had enough NHL games to really evaluate? Take a good hard look at our roster--most of this team was acquired through trade. Two of the late round picks on this team are Doug MacLean picks--Dorsett and Boll. Who else from a late round is anyone counting on to take this team to the next level?

I think we can figure out one person who shouldn't be here if the Jackets are drafting in the top 3 again--the guy who said with a straight face to fans last spring that the Jackets were just a couple players away. Time to be honest with fans and stop tip toeing around it--this team is in a rebuild and this isn't a one year fix.

I saw enough of the Cleveland sports disease growing up. Let's not emulate it. Let's actually move forward now that we have a hockey guy at the top of the food chain with a reasoned plan to get to the ultimate goal of a Stanley Cup instead of one half baked scheme after another. Accept and be honest about the fact that this is year one of a 3 year process and that no one should be expecting a playoff trip until the process is completed, but also step up to the plate and have real consequences or accountability if the process fails.

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02-01-2013, 05:59 PM
  #325
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I fully expect both Umberger and Wiz to be traded at the deadline this year. From the look of both of them on the ice, neither is interested in being part of a rebuilding project. Heck, half the time he is on the ice, it looks like RJ is dreaming of other places he would like to be. His NTC will not be a problem as long as he is traded to an American team in the East or Midwest.

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