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Old
09-16-2016, 12:30 PM
  #1
Nordique
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About the future

There is a great read from Zach Werenski up on nhl.com (link below). He talks about winning the Calder with many of the same guys he's going to Traverse City with this weekend, to attempt a 3-peat.

My question is, at what point does all of this prospect success and uptick, have an impact on the CBJ? Or is it all smoke in mirrors with little to no relevance on the big league ice?


http://bluejackets.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=892672


Last edited by Nordique: 09-16-2016 at 12:36 PM.
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Old
09-16-2016, 12:35 PM
  #2
Fro
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IMO, when that swagger and belief trickles into the lockerroom and on the ice...hopefully we're starting to see this...I literally believe its all in the players heads that when they put on this jersey, mediocrity happens...its a mental block right now, we know we have decent skill to compete...its translating it into wins

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Old
09-16-2016, 12:46 PM
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WannabeFinn
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What do you mean when does the prospect success have an impact on CBJ? Look at Jenner, Wennberg, Murray.. they've made big impacts in the past 3 years. Saad was able to come into the fold because of prospect success. Bjorkstrand looked great in his stints here. Korpisalo had a .920 sv% on one of the worst teams in the league. Werenski is looking to make the jump full-time.

We're already seeing a pretty sizable effect on the CBJ roster.

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Old
09-16-2016, 12:52 PM
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EspenK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WannabeFinn View Post
What do you mean when does the prospect success have an impact on CBJ? Look at Jenner, Wennberg, Murray.. they've made big impacts in the past 3 years. Saad was able to come into the fold because of prospect success. Bjorkstrand looked great in his stints here. Korpisalo had a .920 sv% on one of the worst teams in the league. Werenski is looking to make the jump full-time.

We're already seeing a pretty sizable effect on the CBJ roster.
Yep! Without them we could have been last place.

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09-16-2016, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Fro View Post
IMO, when that swagger and belief trickles into the lockerroom and on the ice...hopefully we're starting to see this...I literally believe its all in the players heads that when they put on this jersey, mediocrity happens...its a mental block right now, we know we have decent skill to compete...its translating it into wins
I had the real pleasure of attending the Traverse City event last year and wrote several pieces of observation in last year's thread.

In post #123 I made the point based upon observation that you could just see them skate as defending champions. It just looked different than anything I had ever seen from any level of CBJ hockey. I believe when a few more players with winning pedigrees (Prospect - Junior - AHL) cement themselves in the NHL roster, this will change. That could begin this year or it could be two more years. I don't know.
I agree with your mental block - mediocrity theory. Coach Torts should help evict that from the locker room as well. It's just how much scorched earth occurs along with the eviction notice.

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Old
09-16-2016, 01:23 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
There is a great read from Zach Werenski up on nhl.com (link below). He talks about winning the Calder with many of the same guys he's going to Traverse City with this weekend, to attempt a 3-peat.

My question is, at what point does all of this prospect success and uptick, have an impact on the CBJ? Or is it all smoke in mirrors with little to no relevance on the big league ice?

http://bluejackets.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=892672
Great amateurs and minor league players do not always become great pros.

I haven't checked it out (hint: someone else hopefully will) but is there any correlation to Calder winners and NHL improvement 2-3 years following? Any correlation to Traverse City and improvement 3-5 years down the road?

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Old
09-16-2016, 02:27 PM
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Need the "Blue Jackets" to mean something more than being sub-standard or a lack of talent (aka "blue collar"). Need it to be something to aspire to play up to. They need to think "this team has had some pretty good players in the past, I hope I'm worthy of playing for them!""

As long as Brandon Dubinsky is the ideal, then I don't think we can expect much more than mediocrity (as he's a mediocre player).

Otherwise, they'll just play for themselves and we'll continue to have a country club atmosphere.

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09-16-2016, 02:54 PM
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No group in America has been more harmed by the NHL's expansion than Blue Jackets prospects. No group! No group! If NHL's goal was to inflict pain on the Blue Jackets community they could not have done a better job. It's a disgrace.

To those I say the following: what do you have to lose? By trying something new like Nutivaara. What do you have to lose?

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Old
09-16-2016, 05:32 PM
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Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Need the "Blue Jackets" to mean something more than being sub-standard or a lack of talent (aka "blue collar"). Need it to be something to aspire to play up to. They need to think "this team has had some pretty good players in the past, I hope I'm worthy of playing for them!""
Because, of course, that's doing so much for Montreal and Toronto. Heck, even Detroit is suffering in that regard (they'd kill for just one of our young blueliners).

If you want that route, then we need folks who want to build their own legends.

* * *
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Originally Posted by Tulipunaruusu View Post
To those I say the following: what do you have to lose? By trying something new like Nutivaara. What do you have to lose?
Opportunity cost; time playing Nutivaara is time that could be given to a better blueline prospect.

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Old
09-16-2016, 06:23 PM
  #10
leesmith
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Originally Posted by WannabeFinn View Post
What do you mean when does the prospect success have an impact on CBJ? Look at Jenner, Wennberg, Murray.. they've made big impacts in the past 3 years. Saad was able to come into the fold because of prospect success. Bjorkstrand looked great in his stints here. Korpisalo had a .920 sv% on one of the worst teams in the league. Werenski is looking to make the jump full-time.

We're already seeing a pretty sizable effect on the CBJ roster.
Right. The issue is not with the kids, but with the veterans.

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Old
09-16-2016, 09:14 PM
  #11
major major
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It always has an impact. If you are asking "when does this make the team actually decent?", we don't know, but it's a better question. I would encourage you to make use of the charts from pages 12 and 13 of this document. Take note of the average development curve. Take note of where young Jackets players are in terms of age and performance. Make projections. Imagine the team with all of that.

My answer is that the Jackets will continue to take steps forward as the best defensemen follow the curve. The forwards are fine. The goaltending is anyone's guess but not that many clubs have certainty of having consistent goaltending years down the road. The important issue is the D. Jones and Murray and Werenski are all still years before their primes, and the team will continue to be up and down until they get closer to that prime level. But Jones will be 24 in a little over two years from now, and by that year, 2018-19, we should expect the Jackets to be pretty good.

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Old
09-17-2016, 06:19 AM
  #12
The Old Guy
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I would encourage you to make use of the charts from pages 12 and 13 of this document. Take note of the average development curve. Take note of where young Jackets players are in terms of age and performance. Make projections. Imagine the team with all of that.
According to that, this coming year should "statistically speaking" be Jack Johnson's best year. He's 29.

Why does it feel like he crested the hill in a playoff round against Pittsburgh a couple years ago? Maybe there is still tread on those tires.

However, the paper was published in the summer of 2013, and the last year of data they used was the 2010-2011 year. During the time since data collection stopped and today, it just seems like younger and younger players make bigger and bigger contributions.

Thanks for sharing the link. I love research papers written with a scientific method applied.

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Old
09-17-2016, 12:30 PM
  #13
major major
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According to that, this coming year should "statistically speaking" be Jack Johnson's best year. He's 29.

Why does it feel like he crested the hill in a playoff round against Pittsburgh a couple years ago? Maybe there is still tread on those tires.

However, the paper was published in the summer of 2013, and the last year of data they used was the 2010-2011 year. During the time since data collection stopped and today, it just seems like younger and younger players make bigger and bigger contributions.

Thanks for sharing the link. I love research papers written with a scientific method applied.
I think it was earlier in that paper they also have stats for the percentage of players that peak earlier, and those that peak later. There's a good deal of variance. So most precisely, 29 is more likely to be JJ's peak than any other year, but the % chance of it being the peak is still well below 50%.

You can still use your judgment. I wouldn't be surprised if Jenner is at peak right now. I wouldn't be surprised if Jones doesn't truly peak until he's 30+.

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Old
09-17-2016, 02:48 PM
  #14
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I am trying to care.

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