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Hamilton III: There's A New Sheriff In Town

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Old
07-12-2013, 09:44 PM
  #351
Killion
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Originally Posted by Blue'sClues View Post
Guess you've never had a homeless guy follow you and your kids back to your car after a Bulldogs game demanding money? Guess you've never had to quickly get two scared kids into the car and then turn around and confront a persistent vagrant.... Yeah, downtown Hamilton.......wonderful location.
Not in Hamilton, no, cant say thats ever happened to me personally. It has however happened in NY outside of MSG, in Edmonton, the area around Northlands pretty notorious; Rogers Arena in Vancouver. You'll get that anywhere in an urban setting. Hardly unique to Hamilton. I do however completely agree with your opinion of the downtown core back there, near on post apocalyptic. Desolate. Classic example of what happens when you build it & They dont come. The Others however do come, lack of development, abandonment, vacant speculation, readily available squats. Social problems, criminal elements. Hamiltons more than paid for its folly in building Copps, failing to close the deal, securing a franchise. Does that mean we just write it all off? Blow it up & forget about it? Or is it fixable? Copps was supposed to have engendered the gentrification & revitalization of the downtown strip, core. Even if it had, you'd still get the Man Who Stands on Street Corners Screaming, the same aggressive Panhandlers. Needles & condoms. Pleasantville doesnt exist anymore. Be it Paris Ontario or France. Gone Baby Gone.

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07-13-2013, 07:32 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Blue'sClues View Post
Guess you've never had a homeless guy follow you and your kids back to your car after a Bulldogs game demanding money?

Guess you've never had to quickly get two scared kids into the car and then turn around and confront a persistent vagrant.
I've never had. Panhandlers sure, in Hamilton, Toronto (where you can't throw a rock without hitting a 'vagrant'.), even blocks away from my home in downtown Galt. Aggressive ones are rare, mostly because it's the surest way to bring the police around.

Hamilton's downtown is not the criminal wasteland some like to make it out to be. It has it's colourful characters for sure, as well as those that are down on their luck, but it's no less safer than any other downtown and probably more so than many. I always laugh when people tell me how beautiful Cambridge is when the downtown area of old Galt is essentially a mini-version of Hamilton downtown, with it's own collection of decaying historic buildings and empty storefronts, but it doesn't have the same reputation as Hamilton.

Of course some of my observations might be coloured by the fact that I used to live in the North End which makes Hamilton's downtown seem like the Garden of Eden...

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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Does that mean we just write it all off? Blow it up & forget about it? Or is it fixable? Copps was supposed to have engendered the gentrification & revitalization of the downtown strip, core.
I think it's the perfect example of how spending public money on professional sports is not the panacea that some like to claim. Inevitably the money put into it does not equal the money returned. Hamilton is turning around, but more due to other factors such as a heritage preservation, parkland creation, tax breaks for condo creation downtown, as well as opening up new industrial lands in places like the Red Hill business park and the new Aerotropolis park. Copps and Tim Hortons Field? Not so much. The only time these ventures show any kind of return is when they are completely privately funded by the wealthiest of sports franchises, the elite of the elite.

This doesn't mean I don't support public money on such ventures. They do help create a community identity and enhance one's quality of life but you can't tax that...

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07-13-2013, 07:47 AM
  #353
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Not in Hamilton, no, cant say thats ever happened to me personally. It has however happened in NY outside of MSG, in Edmonton, the area around Northlands pretty notorious; Rogers Arena in Vancouver. You'll get that anywhere in an urban setting. Hardly unique to Hamilton. I do however completely agree with your opinion of the downtown core back there, near on post apocalyptic. Desolate. Classic example of what happens when you build it & They dont come. The Others however do come, lack of development, abandonment, vacant speculation, readily available squats. Social problems, criminal elements. Hamiltons more than paid for its folly in building Copps, failing to close the deal, securing a franchise. Does that mean we just write it all off? Blow it up & forget about it? Or is it fixable? Copps was supposed to have engendered the gentrification & revitalization of the downtown strip, core. Even if it had, you'd still get the Man Who Stands on Street Corners Screaming, the same aggressive Panhandlers. Needles & condoms. Pleasantville doesnt exist anymore. Be it Paris Ontario or France. Gone Baby Gone.
come on killion, dont placate the OP. this old story about downtown hamilton being dangerous crackville is tiresome and wrong. NYC, boston, buffalo, hartford, montreal, detroit, chicago, even toronto are just as "dangerous" as hamilton is ... and its stupid to claim otherwise. there are thousands of parking spots that dont require risking the lives of anyone's kids. perhaps paying $10 for a spot across the street might have been a better choice. like any city, there are areas one should avoid.

moreover, housing prices have doubled over the last five years within many proximate areas downtown like locke street and the aberdeen area. condo's and new hotels are springing up all around copps. im really tired of people spewing on about how bad the hammer is.

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07-13-2013, 10:26 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
come on killion, dont placate the OP.... moreover, housing prices have doubled over the last five years within many proximate areas downtown like locke street and the aberdeen area. condo's and new hotels are springing up all around copps. im really tired of people spewing on about how bad the hammer is.
Well its a fallacious argument. Rogers Arena for example here in Vancouver sits right smack on the edge of the poorest, most crime ridden postal code in Canada. Ive personally had my car's broken into I think 4X's and once stolen entirely while parked, attending events at the then called GM Place. Some seriously aggressive & ultra-violent Zombies crawling, walking, running, prolly flying around that neighbourhood Boy. Insane. Parking down there, getting in & out safely if you dont know what your doing or where to avoid, well, good luck. Its gotten a lot better over the past 7yrs but still. Edmontons Northlands, same sort of dealeo. Any event centre, theatres, you name it in an urban setting, your going to get that element attracted to it. Panhandlers, petty criminals breaking into cars. Easy pickins', high concentrations of people. A special event in more ways than just a hockey game, movie, live theatre, concert or whatever. Feeding time and the animals come out. Fact of life everywhere.

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07-13-2013, 01:29 PM
  #355
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Downtown Hamilton is perfectly safe and fine.

In fact, it's been improving for a while now, and continues to do.

Had a great time at last night's art crawl, the streets were filled with musicians and artists.

Even both of my kids went out last night to two different areas of downtown.

Sorry, but I don't buy that frightened children story. A little extra drama, perhaps, to make a point? If true, its a rare anomaly and can happen anywhere. Never happened to me and my family. never, and we've been going often, for many, many years!

Been working and patronizing downtown for decades now, and while you might see poor people in downtown Hamilton, I definitely come across more panhandlers in Toronto than Hamilton, none of which bother me. They are harmless.

Condos projects popping up, more and more restaurants appearing, growing cultural scene, (music and art), new investments.

It's past the tipping point for the better

http://renewhamilton.ca/

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/22...ajor-makeover/

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07-13-2013, 01:36 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
Tbh you shouldn't. There should be no debate. If there's a team to come to the Golden horseshoe it should be Hamilton.... Who DESERVES (yes I typed deserve) a team more than this city. Markham? A suburb of Toronto?
[MOD]

I can see you are passionate about this, but your argument seems to be rich in passion, but poor in evidence.

I have no skin in this game, I was merely commenting that I find the discussion of the merits of Hamilton vs Markham as an NHL destination to be interesting.


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 07-13-2013 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Don't make it personal
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07-13-2013, 03:31 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Blue'sClues View Post
Guess you've never had a homeless guy follow you and your kids back to your car after a Bulldogs game demanding money?

Guess you've never had to quickly get two scared kids into the car and then turn around and confront a persistent vagrant.

never had that happen in Hamilton. but it did happen to me on the way home from a jays game.

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07-14-2013, 02:14 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Blue'sClues View Post
From location?????????

I'm going to have to revert back to your classy "like duh" for this one.

Guess you've never had a homeless guy follow you and your kids back to your car after a Bulldogs game demanding money?

Guess you've never had to quickly get two scared kids into the car and then turn around and confront a persistent vagrant.

Yeah, downtown Hamilton.......wonderful location.

But the bigger picture, as long as the Toronto Maple Leafs can't profit from another southern Ontario team it will never happen. Yes the league claims there is no such thing as territorial rights but they did when Ron Joyce was rejected and from what we see I believe they still exist today.

You don't have to look any further than a few years back when Edmonton took their farm team from Hamilton to Toronto to see the issue of territorial rights came into play albeit at the AHL level.

Remember this, the NHL maybe in HamiLtoN, but Hamilton will never be in the NHL.
yah that's right, even our vagrants are tough! Better recognize!

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07-14-2013, 02:20 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by t0mf00lery View Post
[MOD]

I can see you are passionate about this, but your argument seems to be rich in passion, but poor in evidence.

I have no skin in this game, I was merely commenting that I find the discussion of the merits of Hamilton vs Markham as an NHL destination to be interesting.
I probably came off a little strong on the response sorry bout that

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07-16-2013, 01:01 PM
  #360
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Well its a fallacious argument. Rogers Arena for example here in Vancouver sits right smack on the edge of the poorest, most crime ridden postal code in Canada. Ive personally had my car's broken into I think 4X's and once stolen entirely while parked, attending events at the then called GM Place. Some seriously aggressive & ultra-violent Zombies crawling, walking, running, prolly flying around that neighbourhood Boy. Insane. Parking down there, getting in & out safely if you dont know what your doing or where to avoid, well, good luck. Its gotten a lot better over the past 7yrs but still. Edmontons Northlands, same sort of dealeo. Any event centre, theatres, you name it in an urban setting, your going to get that element attracted to it. Panhandlers, petty criminals breaking into cars. Easy pickins', high concentrations of people. A special event in more ways than just a hockey game, movie, live theatre, concert or whatever. Feeding time and the animals come out. Fact of life everywhere.
Really? I have been to dozens of Lions and Canucks games over the past 10+ years and never once did I feel that unsafe. Most of the homeless in Vancouver are pretty harmless, they fit into the sad to see category more than the stand 30 ft. away category.

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07-16-2013, 03:18 PM
  #361
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I probably came off a little strong on the response sorry bout that
No worries. I can understand the passion. I'm an Oilers fan. If Edmonton didn't have a team I'd feel the same way.

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07-16-2013, 03:46 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by MrSZ56 View Post
Really? I have been to dozens of Lions and Canucks games over the past 10+ years and never once did I feel that unsafe. Most of the homeless in Vancouver are pretty harmless, they fit into the sad to see category more than the stand 30 ft. away category.
I dont feel "unsafe" down there (psych jobs generally give me a lot of pavement; going gets strange, I go pro ) at all, not even before the gentrification of the area, 80', 90's. Since 2000, from the old Woodwards conversion to present day, International Village etc, not nearly as bad as it once was. But ya, had my cars broken into, one stolen entirely. Property crimes a big problem, druggies needing quick cash to feed their addictions. Take a stroll along Pender or Main on Welfare Wednesday or Thursday, The Day After. Post Apocalyptic. Bodies everywhere. Crazy.

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07-22-2013, 01:03 PM
  #363
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What Toronto (GTA.) really need is to build a new 30.000 seat stadium for the Argonauts not another NHL. style arena in Markham that will never get built because of 350 - 400 million dollar price tag which Markham can not afford on the other hand a 30.000 seat open air stadium in Toronto (GTA.) would cost 150 - 250 million dollars .

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07-22-2013, 01:34 PM
  #364
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What Toronto (GTA.) really need is to build a new 30.000 seat stadium for the Argonauts not another NHL. style arena in Markham that will never get built because of 350 - 400 million dollar price tag which Markham can not afford on the other hand a 30.000 seat open air stadium in Toronto (GTA.) would cost 150 - 250 million dollars .
That same 30,000 seat stadium needs to have natural grass so that it can be used for Canada Soccer...

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07-22-2013, 06:15 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
What Toronto (GTA.) really need is to build a new 30.000 seat stadium for the Argonauts not another NHL. style arena in Markham that will never get built because of 350 - 400 million dollar price tag which Markham can not afford on the other hand a 30.000 seat open air stadium in Toronto (GTA.) would cost 150 - 250 million dollars .
I think there would be riots in the streets if the city funded a stadium for the Argos. I got it.. tell Torontonians its for a "NFL" team, that should work.

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09-09-2013, 11:00 PM
  #366
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Hamilton has been ranked as the top Canadian city for corporate investment for the second consecutive year.

Hamilton won the Top Canadian Metro title with 35 new corporate projects between April 2012 and March 2013, according to the sixth annual Canada's Best to Invest awards and rankings by Site Selection Magazine.

Quebec City, with 34 new projects, ranks second. Toronto and Edmonton are tied in a distant third place with 22 projects.

In the 2012 ranking, Hamilton was first with 22 industrial and commercial projects.

...The Georgia-based magazine delivers corporate real estate information to companies interested in expansion and new locations.
http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/stor...-magazine.html

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09-09-2013, 11:26 PM
  #367
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Thats certainly very interesting. Portends of good things to come, hopefully including the NHL.

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09-10-2013, 04:37 PM
  #368
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pretty incredible how much the "linc/redhill" has driven business here. if only we could get that hwy built from Fort Erie to the 403. and maybe just maybe get rid of that cursed "green belt" BS that basically forces companies toward the GTA rather than our area. im sure Toronto is behind that some how..

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10-12-2013, 02:34 PM
  #369
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Continuing the OT Hamilton discussion form the Markham thread


http://www.theatlanticcities.com/job...recovery/6876/

Quote:
The third chart traces the share of jobs paying more than $30 per hour. In Toronto, Regina, and Hamilton, more than half of the net new positions created since 2009 paid more than $30 an hour

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10-12-2013, 05:06 PM
  #370
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^nice to see

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10-12-2013, 05:44 PM
  #371
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Pulled this from another board...

Quote:
Crunching RAHB's sales numbers for Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, May and June gives us:

Average Sale Price, Jan-June 2013

Flamborough $533,311
Burlington $482,212
Ancaster $463,265
Waterdown $443,036
Dundas $382,127
Grimsby $356,119
Glanbrook $332,118
Stoney Creek $323,947
Hamilton West $317,910
Caledonia $287,056
Hamilton Mountain $278,751
Dunnville $204,492
Hamilton East $203,639
Hamilton Centre $173,399

Average Sale Price Increase ($), Jan-June 2013 vs Jan-June 2012

Flamborough $56,631
Waterdown $54,501
Burlington $28,724
Hamilton West $26,522
Dundas $22,026
Caledonia $19,967
Grimsby $14,135
Hamilton Mountain $13,642
Hamilton Centre $12,844
Ancaster $12,120
Stoney Creek $11,756
Dunnville $11,694
Hamilton East $5,487
Glanbrook -$7,992

Average Sale Price Increase (%), Jan-June 2013 vs Jan-June 2012

Waterdown 14.03%
Flamborough 11.88%
Hamilton West 9.10%
Hamilton Centre 8.00%
Caledonia 7.48%
Burlington 6.33%
Dundas 6.12%
Dunnville 6.06%
Hamilton Mountain 5.15%
Grimsby 4.13%
Stoney Creek 3.77%
Hamilton East 2.77%
Ancaster 2.69%
Glanbrook -2.35%

Source: Collated from RAHB Market Activity Reports

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12-12-2013, 07:06 AM
  #372
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Mystery owner wants NHL team in Hamilton

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A deep-pocketed prospective owner has been quietly positioning himself to make a play for an expansion team for Hamilton — if and when the National Hockey League decides to add franchises, a local businessman and hockey executive says.

"Without question there's a player who wants to have a team in Hamilton," Don Robertson says. "I can assure you of that. I'd bet my life on it."

Robertson, a driving force in senior hockey across the province who's been involved in a number of hockey-related deals over the years — including putting together the local group that bought the Hamilton Bulldogs — says he is now serving as an unpaid adviser to the mystery owner. They were introduced to each other more than a year ago.

The possible owner was apparently already working on this idea for some time before that meeting.
Quote:
He says the prospective owner has the ability to put the financing together, even though any expansion fee to land in the hockey hotbed of southern Ontario is expected to cost hundreds of millions. Some of it would be his own money and some would be raised from investors.
Quote:
"I am absolutely convinced there's only one way for us to get an NHL franchise," he says. "The only way this is going to happen is if it happens like Winnipeg."

The Jets, you'll recall, returned to the NHL only after owner Mark Chipman quietly worked in the shadows until everything was in place. He played the game the league's governors wanted and then waited patiently until his opportunity arrived with the failure of the Atlanta Thrashers.

His MO was the opposite of the Jim Balsillie model, in other words, which was public, loud and often antagonistic. And which ultimately landed with a thud.

"The formula for success for getting an NHL franchise for this city or any other city is: shut up," Robertson says
Read more http://www.thespec.com/sports-story/...m-in-hamilton/


Mmmmm...If the strategy is Shut Up, then the question is, "Why is Robertson talking to The Spec's Scott Radley"?


Last edited by Hamilton Tigers: 12-12-2013 at 07:26 AM.
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12-12-2013, 07:55 AM
  #373
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Read more http://www.thespec.com/sports-story/...m-in-hamilton/


Mmmmm...If the strategy is Shut Up, then the question is, "Why is Robertson talking to The Spec's Scott Radley"?
Interesting piece. I guess it's good just to mention that Hamilton is open for business. But I agree now that the message is out. Time for all parties to remain quiet for now on and let's see how this plays out.

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12-12-2013, 08:27 AM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers View Post
Read more http://www.thespec.com/sports-story/...m-in-hamilton/


Mmmmm...If the strategy is Shut Up, then the question is, "Why is Robertson talking to The Spec's Scott Radley"?
I'm assuming it's just to let people know that there is something going on behind the scenes. It's still a long shot. Quebec with the virtue of having a new arena in the process of being built and Seattle by virtue of being American clearly have a leg up on the competition...

Still it's nice to know that our belief that there are deep pocketed owners interested in a team in Hamilton isn't a mere fantasy.

Though if it turns out that the 'deep-pocketed' owner is another Graeme Roustan-type, I'll just quietly bash my head in with this keyboard....

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12-12-2013, 08:38 AM
  #375
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I'm assuming what was said in the paper does not go against what the NHL wants: They're just saying "someone" is "working on it".

Just throwing out names here: Any chance it's Braley, who just resigned from Senate for no apparent reason?

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