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2013 Leafs Trades/Proposals/Signings Version III

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Old
02-03-2013, 11:29 AM
  #301
The Podium
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
I really hate when people say this. 29th,21st,26th, Nuff said. It's seems like it would alot better to trade Kessel and Co for 1st+

This group will never amount to much.
Problem is Kessel will only be going to a contender.... So even if you think hell return a 1st plus those 1sts wont be until 20-30, so yay more Biggs level-talent Unless you can get a top 5 picks, which is very unlikely considering that states of those teams who wont be paying premium for a UFA to be, you will not get your values worth. Same can be said for Grabovski, Kulemin, Phaneuf, etc. Sure we can get 10 1sts, but none of which will really be of much value. Not to mention they are all still young so there is no reason to blow it up at this point. We are on the brink of something special, we are in the position where Burke usually thrives in polishing the product too bad hes gone now This team isnt in a position for a total rebuild, you have to be Calgary-esque to start one. There is ways to change the direction of the team without completely dismantling it.

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02-03-2013, 11:31 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
Yeah totally. Because I was freaking out when Kadri wasn't making the team

Seguin,Hamilton,Knights looks alot better for our future then Kessel
Even if its true, why bring it up? Its been repeated for 4 years now, yes we know for a rebuilding team they are the better option but *****ing wont reverse anything

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02-03-2013, 11:31 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
Yeah totally. Because I was freaking out when Kadri wasn't making the team

Seguin,Hamilton,Knights looks alot better for our future then Kessel

My point stands: no matter what we do, you (and a large portion of the fanbase) will immediately write-off any player that doesn't perform up to the expectations you've set out for them. You're comments about Kadri and Frattin emphasize this.

You say "blow it up" and draft but I guarantee the moment the development of these players veers away from the unrealistic linear trend you've got in your mind, you'll deem them a waste and talk about why we need to move them for picks/prospects. Anddd the cycle repeats.

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02-03-2013, 11:34 AM
  #304
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Has anyone noticed Elliotte Friedman's 30 thoughts a few weeks ago?

Quote:
1. After Brian Burke's Saturday media conference, one source came up with an actual sensible reason for the timing of the change. It sounds like the Toronto Maple Leafs new ownership disagreed with Burke's CBA philosophies -- the unwillingness to use bonuses, back-diving contracts and offer sheets among other things. It's about using your resources to the fullest extent. In the new deal, there are further limitations, but still advantages to being a financial powerhouse (bonuses, for example, were not touched). If this is true, we're going to see a change in the way Toronto does business.
Elliotte Friedman's 30 Thoughts
Wonder if we'll see the Maple Leafs offer-sheet anyone in the near future. *wink* Oliver Ekman-Larsson *wink*

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02-03-2013, 11:35 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Problem is Kessel will only be going to a contender.... So even if you think hell return a 1st plus those 1sts wont be until 20-30, so yay more Biggs level-talent Unless you can get a top 5 picks, which is very unlikely considering that states of those teams who wont be paying premium for a UFA to be, you will not get your values worth. Same can be said for Grabovski, Kulemin, Phaneuf, etc. Sure we can get 10 1sts, but none of which will really be of much value. Not to mention they are all still young so there is no reason to blow it up at this point. We are on the brink of something special, we are in the position where Burke usually thrives in polishing the product too bad hes gone now This team isnt in a position for a total rebuild, you have to be Calgary-esque to start one. There is ways to change the direction of the team without completely dismantling it.
Very well put.

People don't realize the benefit of letting a core of young players develop together. Too much change is not a good thing, you want chemistry and brotherhood to develop, and that doesn't happen when you're continuously trading everyone and starting all over again. Plus is sends the wrong message to the "core" players that are left over, that management doesn't want to give them a chance to win.

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02-03-2013, 11:36 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by jmart21 View Post
My point stands: no matter what we do, you (and a large portion of the fanbase) will immediately write-off any player that doesn't perform up to the expectations you've set out for them. You're comments about Kadri and Frattin emphasize this.

You say "blow it up" and draft but I guarantee the moment the development of these players veers away from the unrealistic linear trend you've got in your mind, you'll deem them a waste and talk about why we need to move them for picks/prospects. Anddd the cycle repeats.
I love what Kadri and Frattin have showed so far in this short season. I don't expect them to be a 1st line players,(Althought Kadri has a shot I think) I understand with young players there are growing pains. But right now it seems we're in a endless cycle of mediocrity.

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02-03-2013, 11:37 AM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Has anyone noticed Elliotte Friedman's 30 thoughts a few weeks ago?



Elliotte Friedman's 30 Thoughts
Wonder if we'll see the Maple Leafs offer-sheet anyone in the near future. *wink* Oliver Ekman-Larsson *wink*

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02-03-2013, 11:51 AM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Has anyone noticed Elliotte Friedman's 30 thoughts a few weeks ago?



Elliotte Friedman's 30 Thoughts
Wonder if we'll see the Maple Leafs offer-sheet anyone in the near future. *wink* Oliver Ekman-Larsson *wink*
If that were to be the case, Then I look forward to the constant *****ing and moaning about giving more draft picks for 21 year olds.

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02-03-2013, 11:56 AM
  #309
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He's the type of player you would want to steal from a financially struggling ownership, even if you have to lose a first-round pick. Unlike Kessel (since this will obviously be the comparison), OEL is very close to being in the same tier as Karlsson and Pietrangelo, etc. He already is a #1 defense-man. There are zero holes in his game. And he's only 21.

However, the Leafs would rather ensure that Phoenix survives, as they like to continue financially supporting them to remain on life support. Let's forget that the plug needs to be pulled already, though.

Financial advantage? No sir.

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02-03-2013, 11:57 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Rare Jewel View Post
If that were to be the case, Then I look forward to the constant *****ing and moaning about giving more draft picks for 21 year olds.
Please don't compare OEL to Kessel. OEL is twice the player Kessel was at the age.

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02-03-2013, 11:57 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
I love what Kadri and Frattin have showed so far in this short season. I don't expect them to be a 1st line players,(Althought Kadri has a shot I think) I understand with young players there are growing pains. But right now it seems we're in a endless cycle of mediocrity.
Yes, we've been bad for a long time.

-But we're 7 games into the first full season with a new coach; like he said yesterday its still very much a work in progress. Last nights game was great; a RW coached leafs team would not have held the bruins to 1 goal. We're playing a team defense game and everyone is still learning.

-We've got a young, legit first line sniper. Something many teams wish they had.
-We've got a great set of top6 wingers; certainly not at the bottom of the league in that category.
-We've got an excellent 2nd line centre that seems to have chemistry with just about every person he plays with.
-Our bottom 6 is really taking shape and looks like we've got a great "carlyle" type of player in McClem
-Our defense is stocked full of NHL calibre guys. But I'd say outside of Dion, we don't really have any other top pairing quality guys. I'd say one area of need is getting a guy to play with Dion. We've also got fantastic depth in our D prospect pool.
-In goal, we've got a young goalie with boatloads of potential. We really need to bring in a vet to help him along the way (like Giggy did), as this would help him a lot.

The problem for the past few years has been keeping the puck out of our net. I don't think it's because our D or G were attrocious...we just have never had any defensive systems in place. Which is a recipe for disaster. Carlyle is changing this and my hopes are that soon we start seeing the rewards of it.

We've got plenty of talent on this team. However, we're missing 2 important pieces that could really go a long way in changing how this team looks. Another top6 C would really change it and so would another top pairing defenseman.

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02-03-2013, 11:58 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Rare Jewel View Post
If that were to be the case, Then I look forward to the constant *****ing and moaning about giving more draft picks for 21 year olds.
It really doesnt make sense with Gardiner and Rielly likely up next season. If we were going to offersheet anyone it shouldve been Benn.

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02-03-2013, 11:58 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Rare Jewel View Post
If that were to be the case, Then I look forward to the constant *****ing and moaning about giving more draft picks for 21 year olds.
Honestly though, could you imagine a top 4 of OEL, Phaneuf, Rielly, Gardiner...

Then for your bottom two options you get to choose from Gunnarsson, Liles, Percy, Finn.

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02-03-2013, 12:02 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
Please don't compare OEL to Kessel. OEL is twice the player Kessel was at the age.
What?

How many 21-22 year olds have scored 36goals?

Kessel at that age was twice the player OEL is at this age.

edit: HockeyDB says he was 20 the year he scored 36. Not sure which one is correct.

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02-03-2013, 12:02 PM
  #315
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Honestly though, could you imagine a top 4 of OEL, Phaneuf, Rielly, Gardiner...

Then for your bottom two options you get to choose from Gunnarsson, Liles, Percy, Finn.
Who's going to play D in the top 4? lol

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02-03-2013, 12:04 PM
  #316
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What?

How many 21-22 year olds have scored 36goals?

Kessel at that age was twice the player OEL is at this age.
You gotta be kidding. OEL is argubly already a #1D and his potential and ceiling are through the roof.
He looks like a future norris winner imo.

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02-03-2013, 12:06 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
Please don't compare OEL to Kessel. OEL is twice the player Kessel was at the age.
So media outlets would tell you.


The guys plays in phoenix, If he played here people would find something to ***** about. T.O eats defensemen.

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02-03-2013, 12:06 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
Who's going to play D in the top 4? lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
You gotta be kidding. OEL is argubly already a #1D and his potential and ceiling are through the roof.
He looks like a future norris winner imo.
You question OEL's D and then state OEL is already a #1 and a future Norris... :S

I would go OEL-Rielly, Phaneuf-Gardiner. That is the craziest top 4 in Leafs history...

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02-03-2013, 12:07 PM
  #319
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Yes, we've been bad for a long time.

-But we're 7 games into the first full season with a new coach; like he said yesterday its still very much a work in progress. Last nights game was great; a RW coached leafs team would not have held the bruins to 1 goal. We're playing a team defense game and everyone is still learning.

-We've got a young, legit first line sniper. Something many teams wish they had.
-We've got a great set of top6 wingers; certainly not at the bottom of the league in that category.
-We've got an excellent 2nd line centre that seems to have chemistry with just about every person he plays with.
-Our bottom 6 is really taking shape and looks like we've got a great "carlyle" type of player in McClem
-Our defense is stocked full of NHL calibre guys. But I'd say outside of Dion, we don't really have any other top pairing quality guys. I'd say one area of need is getting a guy to play with Dion. We've also got fantastic depth in our D prospect pool.
-In goal, we've got a young goalie with boatloads of potential. We really need to bring in a vet to help him along the way (like Giggy did), as this would help him a lot.

The problem for the past few years has been keeping the puck out of our net. I don't think it's because our D or G were attrocious...we just have never had any defensive systems in place. Which is a recipe for disaster. Carlyle is changing this and my hopes are that soon we start seeing the rewards of it.

We've got plenty of talent on this team. However, we're missing 2 important pieces that could really go a long way in changing how this team looks. Another top6 C would really change it and so would another top pairing defenseman.
This exactly.

Lupul - XXXX - Kessel
JVR - Grabovski - Kulemin

Is a very good top 6 if you can fill that #1 with a solid player.

Frattin - Kadri - Komarov

Young line, inexperienced but is thus far producing. If Kadri can work on his face-offs will be solid going forward.

Brown - McClement - Orr

4th line, heart and soul, defensively responsible, not much more you could want unless we had the
Ladd - XXXX - Versteeg 4th line in Chicagos cup run

XXXX - Phaneuf

IMO the biggest hole in the organization. An OEL, Suter or Pietrangelo type D would be ideal but very unlikely

Gunnarsson - Gardiner

We know how good they are when they are at their best

Rielly - Holzer

Young sheltered pairing.

Reimer
XXXX

Reimers thus far proved he can be an average starter and once the defensive system is fully implemented thats all we need. A 1b vet would be ideal, Backstrom or Vokoun for example. Howard would probably be the best option going into FA to give us a solid tandem like St. Louis

There you have it, the team that doesnt require a re-build. A single solid trade that doesnt ruin the core, the development of a young player, or a solid FA will turn this team into a contender IMO.

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02-03-2013, 12:09 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
You gotta be kidding. OEL is argubly already a #1D and his potential and ceiling are through the roof.
He looks like a future norris winner imo.
Kessel was a #1 RW with 60 points in 70 games 36 goals as a 21 year old with offensive potential through the roof. Just because you dont like the guy doesnt mean they arent comparables The only difference is we are a much better team now than we were 4 years ago so the loss wont be as substantial and if its an offersheet its a single 1st not 2.

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02-03-2013, 12:09 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
You question OEL's D and then state OEL is already a #1 and a future Norris... :S

I would go OEL-Rielly, Phaneuf-Gardiner. That is the craziest top 4 in Leafs history...
See Karlsson,Erik for an OFD Norris winner, Lidstrom was more of an OFD too. although Lidstrom was a freak all-around. Niedermayer was also an OFD. you don't have to be perfect defensively to win a Norris

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02-03-2013, 12:12 PM
  #322
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See Karlsson,Erik for an OFD Norris winner, Lidstrom was more of an OFD too. although Lidstrom was a freak all-around. Niedermayer was also an OFD. you don't have to be perfect defensively to win a Norris
I honestly think OEL is better defensively than he is offensively.... Niedermayer and Lidstrom were also amongst the best DFD of this era. Only Karlsson couldnt play D and won.

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02-03-2013, 12:12 PM
  #323
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See Karlsson,Erik for an OFD Norris winner, Lidstrom was more of an OFD too. although Lidstrom was a freak all-around. Niedermayer was also an OFD. you don't have to be perfect defensively to win a Norris
Get a clue bro, OEL is a #1 D in every sense of the word. You could argue Yandle is their pure offensive D-man. OEL is everything I want in a defenseman. He shuts down, he hits, he QBs the pp, he's got an excellent pass.

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02-03-2013, 12:13 PM
  #324
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You gotta be kidding. OEL is argubly already a #1D and his potential and ceiling are through the roof.
He looks like a future norris winner imo.
Yes he looks like a good defenseman and I think he's got serious potential. But he wasn't even in the top50 for defenseman ice-time last season. Also, he was used the least amount per game of all PHX dmen on the PK. A no1 dman plays in all situations; not just ES and PP.

He looks promising, but he's far from a #1 D. A 20yo scoring 36 goals is certainly a stronger performance.

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02-03-2013, 12:15 PM
  #325
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If we are able to draft a big time centre this year, I am fine with offer-sheeting OEL...or Pietrangelo

Phaneuf-OEL/Pietrangelo
Gardiner-Gunnarsson
Rielly-Whoever

Is the best d corps we have had in...ever?

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