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Phil Kessel Discussion Thread. (no goals as of Feb 4, 2013)

View Poll Results: kessel goals, 15 over or under, this year
over 86 51.50%
under 81 48.50%
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Old
02-03-2013, 02:03 PM
  #376
The Apologist
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Originally Posted by RealisticLeaf55 View Post
Correct me if I am wrong but we have never truly had the golden opportunity to really draft a center. Teams have generally done worse than us and have obtained guys like Tavares and Galchenyuk. The fact of the matter is we have a good chance to draft a center such as Mackinnon/Barkov/whomever and because of that I really am hesitant to move PK. Mostly for two reasons:

1) We obtain said "center" and no longer have Kessel their to provide the goals (thus becoming a lateral move). I really don't want to leave fate into Lupul's hands due to his injury history.

2) We should only trade Kessel for strong value. I know you dislike him but the fact is, is he has strong value. If we do the rebuild I want it done right; I want a top 10 pick coming back our way so we can secure center depth.
Better be a top 5 plus. Anybody else think Columbus might be a team we could talk to?

Anyway, it's been fun (and civilized, which is nice for a change). Must go prepare for Super Bowl. Thanks for the discussion guys!!

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Old
02-03-2013, 05:22 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
I don't see that though, I see a player tht competes extremely hard, even into his own zone now. I see a player who is starting to show a much more rounded game. I see a player who creates opportunities out of nothing, makes his line mates better. So what if he doesn't show leadership? That's not his role here. I see one of the best players in the game today, and still improving.

I think people need to get over this whole idea of one specific type of player being 'the' player. The truth is, if there was any one player that won Boston the cup it was Thomas. In LA it was Quick. Other than that, it was a sum of all the parts. I truly believe that Kessel will be a huge piece of the puzzle if and when all the stars align and the pieces fall into place.

Kessel does not compete and has not since arriving in the NHL, he is not improved in this area very much despite being asked to. He also gives the puck away when challenged or simply avoids going to a place that will see him challenged. Kessel is not the huge piece to any puzzle as those types of players are leaders who show the way.....and lead by example.

He is no where near one of the best players in the world....he had a great offensive season last year and yet was still on the ice for more goals against then for.

LA had more then one player who was the reason for winning.....Kopitar, ,Richards, Carter, Doughty and Brown....Along with Quick.

Me I think Kessel is a very limited player in what he brings to the table, as he lacks sack.....and a compete level and he is a piece that maybe needed when you are all ready a team capable of winning.

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Old
02-03-2013, 07:02 PM
  #378
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So nobody would want to trade Phil Kessel for:

A PWF - 25g potential - solid two way game
A Goalie to help shoulder the load
Another 1st Round pick in this Deep draft
Another 3rd Round Pick

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02-03-2013, 07:09 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
So nobody would want to trade Phil Kessel for:

A PWF - 25g potential - solid two way game
A Goalie to help shoulder the load
Another 1st Round pick in this Deep draft
Another 3rd Round Pick
No. I want to give him a huge 8 year deal and re-sign him.

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Old
02-03-2013, 07:11 PM
  #380
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I think Kessel will have 4-5 goals by the end of this stretch:

Their next few games:

25th Place - Carolina
28th Place - Washington
22nd Place - Winnipeg
8th Place - Montreal (which the Leafs tend to own)
27th Place - Philadelphia

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Old
02-03-2013, 07:16 PM
  #381
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HF-Where "Picks" are always better than an established NHL player.

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Old
02-03-2013, 07:20 PM
  #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
So nobody would want to trade Phil Kessel for:

A PWF - 25g potential - solid two way game
A Goalie to help shoulder the load
Another 1st Round pick in this Deep draft
Another 3rd Round Pick
only one guy counts, thats nonis.
he will make that trade.
he never wanted to trade for kessel, patients the way he builds
without kessel we would of had 3 years of even higher picks than we gave away.
nonis will get a very good return for kessel and the burke era will come to an end.

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Old
02-03-2013, 07:25 PM
  #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
HF-Where "Picks" are always better than an established NHL player.
Because the "value" of a player is more or less evident.

Picks have a much less discernable value, and although there is a lot of calculated and precise statistical science in use by scouts and management, fans opt to remain completely ignorant and like to think that picks have significantly more potential than they actually do.

Just think, if 10th rounders like Luc Robitaille can become 50 goal scorers, then 1st rounders must be 10 times more amazing than 10th rounders...

Lots of conclusions are possible when you stop trying to use logical argument or reasoning of any kind.

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Old
02-03-2013, 07:31 PM
  #384
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Phil will get it going. You know that when he scores one goal, the second, third & fourth aren't that far behind. It's one of the few things that I'am certain will take place.

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Old
02-03-2013, 08:49 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Kessel does not compete and has not since arriving in the NHL, he is not improved in this area very much despite being asked to. He also gives the puck away when challenged or simply avoids going to a place that will see him challenged. Kessel is not the huge piece to any puzzle as those types of players are leaders who show the way.....and lead by example.

He is no where near one of the best players in the world....he had a great offensive season last year and yet was still on the ice for more goals against then for.

LA had more then one player who was the reason for winning.....Kopitar, ,Richards, Carter, Doughty and Brown....Along with Quick.

Me I think Kessel is a very limited player in what he brings to the table, as he lacks sack.....and a compete level and he is a piece that maybe needed when you are all ready a team capable of winning.
37 goals and 82 points without trying? Wow. Kessel's the best player in the league.

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Old
02-03-2013, 09:13 PM
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
So nobody would want to trade Phil Kessel for:

A PWF - 25g potential - solid two way game
A Goalie to help shoulder the load
Another 1st Round pick in this Deep draft
Another 3rd Round Pick
I would do it in a heartbeat, although I'd be surprised if the Canucks would.

I'm with you in this thread, you made a lot of great points between getting carried away here and there.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:13 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
37 goals and 82 points without trying? Wow. Kessel's the best player in the league.
Puck recovery is a term that is foreign to Phil.....blocking shots, being part of the team to help get the puck out of your own zone......you do know that for all of his offense that we still lost a lot of games and he was a minus player.

I have never denied that he is a skilled player.....but he is very limited in what he brings....and I'm not a fan....never have been. I like the players like the song say's " real fast and tough".

He does lead the team in stick checks....

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:14 PM
  #388
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Old
02-03-2013, 10:22 PM
  #389
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He'll probably start going on a tear soon, he is due for something to go his way.

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Old
02-03-2013, 11:03 PM
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStBullies View Post
I think Kessel will have 4-5 goals by the end of this stretch:

Their next few games:

25th Place - Carolina
28th Place - Washington
22nd Place - Winnipeg
8th Place - Montreal (which the Leafs tend to own)
27th Place - Philadelphia


They won 3 and lost 3 the last 3 seasons.

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Old
02-03-2013, 11:32 PM
  #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
HF-Where "Picks" are always better than an established NHL player.
Leafs management followed the genius advice of rogerroeper and said "established players are CLEARLY more important than picks. So lets trade all our picks for established players."
Result?
Longest playoff drought in the entire 30 team NHL.

Moral of the story? Picks are very important and rogerroeper doesn't know what he's talking about.

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Old
02-03-2013, 11:41 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Leafs management followed the genius advice of rogerroeper and said "established players are CLEARLY more important than picks. So lets trade all our picks for established players."
Result?
Longest playoff drought in the entire 30 team NHL.

Moral of the story? Picks are very important and rogerroeper doesn't know what he's talking about.
Insert Slow Clap here:

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Old
02-03-2013, 11:48 PM
  #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Leafs management followed the genius advice of rogerroeper and said "established players are CLEARLY more important than picks. So lets trade all our picks for established players."
Result?
Longest playoff drought in the entire 30 team NHL.

Moral of the story? Picks are very important and rogerroeper doesn't know what he's talking about.
Im not trading Kessel for picks. I want two blue chip prospects or he isn't going anywhere. Picks are very risky(unless its top 5/10) for a PPG player who can net you 35+ goals a season.

Richards got Schenn and Simmonds, Carter got Voracek and #8, I want the same for Kessel or hes not going anywhere.

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Old
02-03-2013, 11:58 PM
  #394
7even
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Leafs management followed the genius advice of rogerroeper and said "established players are CLEARLY more important than picks. So lets trade all our picks for established players."
Result?
Longest playoff drought in the entire 30 team NHL.

Moral of the story? Picks are very important and rogerroeper doesn't know what he's talking about.
Well that's a very simplistic view to take.

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Old
02-04-2013, 12:33 AM
  #395
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
So a concussed goaltender, an incompetent coach, a single competent line mate and a porous D yet Kessel is the reason for a bottom 5 finish? Your rationality is terrible.

read your post once again. A single competent line mate and then you say an incompetent coach. Well, if you feel kessel only had one decent line mate, what was the coach to do?

You guys should probably decide who you want to blame for things. To me it just sounds like excuses. Either the coach was bad, or the players were bad. Not sure how you expect a coach to do a great job when you believe the team as a whole is incompetent. Confusion.

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02-04-2013, 01:01 AM
  #396
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Originally Posted by Standardly View Post
read your post once again. A single competent line mate and then you say an incompetent coach. Well, if you feel kessel only had one decent line mate, what was the coach to do?

You guys should probably decide who you want to blame for things. To me it just sounds like excuses. Either the coach was bad, or the players were bad. Not sure how you expect a coach to do a great job when you believe the team as a whole is incompetent. Confusion.
What I find most confusing about all of this is that PK Supporters make it abundantly clear that with Phil Kessel producing at his absolute career best - the team around him still sucks.

Yet they want to keep this particular player - and neglect improving all of the aforementioned problems. In some instances even going out of their ways to hurt those facets of game that are already considered weaknesses - in a desperate attempt to find players that will help facilitate the continued success of PHIL KESSEL.

Its almost like everything the team requires - is secondary to Phil Kessels stat sheet. The ultimate indicator of FANBOYDOM

We need A goalie
We need A 1C
We need A PWF
We need A Shutdown Defenceman
We need Leadership

Miracle UFA's
Praying that Prospects Far Exceed their Projections
Mortgaging the Future for Temporary Help ...

Are not Tangible ways to Operate any business - let alone a hockey club that has LITERALLY done this exact SAME plan over the last 10 years and have achieved nothing as a result.





What makes this situation worse for me personally - is that its the same cast of characters who on nearly every occassion have been proven wrong. Over and Over again. They supported Wilson until the day he was Fired. They unquestionably still support Brian Burke to this very day. Every year they predict playoffs - and every year they are wrong. It goes on and on. Yet they still come back. To argue the relative merits of Phil Kessel lol History will once again teach them how truly ignorant their unwavering support has been.


Last edited by DaveT83*: 02-04-2013 at 01:13 AM.
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Old
02-04-2013, 01:04 AM
  #397
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He will bag two agains the Canes.

2 goals and an assist are coming imo.

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Old
02-04-2013, 01:09 AM
  #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Kessel does not compete and has not since arriving in the NHL, he is not improved in this area very much despite being asked to. He also gives the puck away when challenged or simply avoids going to a place that will see him challenged. Kessel is not the huge piece to any puzzle as those types of players are leaders who show the way.....and lead by example.

He is no where near one of the best players in the world....he had a great offensive season last year and yet was still on the ice for more goals against then for.

LA had more then one player who was the reason for winning.....Kopitar, ,Richards, Carter, Doughty and Brown....Along with Quick.

Me I think Kessel is a very limited player in what he brings to the table, as he lacks sack.....and a compete level and he is a piece that maybe needed when you are all ready a team capable of winning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Puck recovery is a term that is foreign to Phil.....blocking shots, being part of the team to help get the puck out of your own zone......you do know that for all of his offense that we still lost a lot of games and he was a minus player.

I have never denied that he is a skilled player.....but he is very limited in what he brings....and I'm not a fan....never have been. I like the players like the song say's " real fast and tough".

He does lead the team in stick checks....
If Phil Kessel doesn't compete in the NHL and can finish 6th in scoring, that's still pretty special, whether he's bringing enough sack for you or not...

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Old
02-04-2013, 02:11 AM
  #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
If Phil Kessel doesn't compete in the NHL and can finish 6th in scoring, that's still pretty special, whether he's bringing enough sack for you or not...
It's an amazing feat to do that without competing, to be sure.

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02-04-2013, 03:17 AM
  #400
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If I can say one thing, I don't think it's outrageous to say Phil Kessel doesn't work as hard as he should in the off season. Not to the level you would expect of an elite athlete. And with the talent this guy has, I don't think I can even blame him. But man if he ever figures it out.

Tell me you wouldn't love to see this guy hit the Gary Roberts school of fitness 7 days a week, every day of the off season.

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