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Ryan Nugent-Hopkins vs. Nazem Kadri - two development paths

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Old
03-03-2013, 12:36 AM
  #1
DK28
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Ryan Nugent-Hopkins vs. Nazem Kadri - two development paths

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...-be-held-down/

This article about Kadri has me wondering if RNH would have been better off with Edmonton following Toronto's development strategy. I get that RNH, being a #1 overall pick, there is expectation from the fan base etc. For him to play right away.

Kadri is 22, potential franchise centre, point per game player this year leading leafs in scoring, developing an all around game, 6'0 185lbs. Goes to tough areas of the ice, takes puck to the net. So the article implies.

RNH is almost 20, potential franchise centre, potential to be 90 point guy, struggling. 6'1 185 lbs. Seems to be lagging a bit in aspects of his game in his second year.

Would RNH be a better player today, more developed, had he went back to Red Deer for one more year and learned to be a pro with tough love in OKC?

How do these two players compare longer term as a result, granted RNH has higher offensive ceiling, but Kadri is looking quite good in that area now as well?

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03-03-2013, 12:41 AM
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1st overall picks don't get handled that way.

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03-03-2013, 12:43 AM
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RNH was really out of place in the NHL last year and couldn't get any offense going whatsoever. Him and the entire team just aren't getting any breaks right now, he'll turn it around sooner or later.

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03-03-2013, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DK28 View Post
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...-be-held-down/

This article about Kadri has me wondering if RNH would have been better off with Edmonton following Toronto's development strategy. I get that RNH, being a #1 overall pick, there is expectation from the fan base etc. For him to play right away.

Kadri is 22, potential franchise centre, point per game player this year leading leafs in scoring, developing an all around game, 6'0 185lbs. Goes to tough areas of the ice, takes puck to the net. So the article implies.

RNH is almost 20, potential franchise centre, potential to be 90 point guy, struggling. 6'1 185 lbs. Seems to be lagging a bit in aspects of his game in his second year.

Would RNH be a better player today, more developed, had he went back to Red Deer for one more year and learned to be a pro with tough love in OKC?

How do these two players compare longer term as a result, granted RNH has higher offensive ceiling, but Kadri is looking quite good in that area now as well?
I think it's the time he spent this year playing against AHL/Junior competition that hurt him.

What he (and still Hall and Eberle) still need to learn is what they can't get away with in the NHL. Playing against weaker competition will just breed bad habits.

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03-03-2013, 12:46 AM
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RNH wont be 20 until right near the end of the season. He would still be in the WHL if he had not played in Edmonton last year.

He absolutely should have been here last year. I've been hard on him the last few days, but lets not forget that he scored at a pace better than any #1 forward since Patrick Kane in his first season.

Something is wrong with him right now no doubt. But it wasn't a mistake to have him here last year.

Long term you take RNH 11 times out of 10 over Kadri. Good for Kadri that he is having a nice start to his year, but he was drafted 2 years ahead of Nuge and is 2.5 years older. He's sort of a bad comparison. As I said earlier, RNH would have needed 2 years of junior before going to the AHL. Kadri had just one.

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03-03-2013, 12:46 AM
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Kadri is a late birthday. Meaning he was eligible for the AHL one season after his draft year.

RNH would have had to play two more seasons in Red Deer before he could see any AHL time. Then two more in OKC to follow Kadri's development.

No 1st overall pick is going to play four seasons after they're drafted before they see full-time NHL minutes.

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03-03-2013, 12:50 AM
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Lets compare Rnh stats in 15/16 to Kadri's stats this year .

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03-03-2013, 01:00 AM
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Kadri plays in a conference where defense and goaltending are secondary.

There are no Kings, Blues, Coyotes, Wild, or Predators in the Eastern Conference.

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03-03-2013, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DK28 View Post
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...-be-held-down/

This article about Kadri has me wondering if RNH would have been better off with Edmonton following Toronto's development strategy. I get that RNH, being a #1 overall pick, there is expectation from the fan base etc. For him to play right away.

Kadri is 22, potential franchise centre, point per game player this year leading leafs in scoring, developing an all around game, 6'0 185lbs. Goes to tough areas of the ice, takes puck to the net. So the article implies.

RNH is almost 20, potential franchise centre, potential to be 90 point guy, struggling. 6'1 185 lbs. Seems to be lagging a bit in aspects of his game in his second year.

Would RNH be a better player today, more developed, had he went back to Red Deer for one more year and learned to be a pro with tough love in OKC?

How do these two players compare longer term as a result, granted RNH has higher offensive ceiling, but Kadri is looking quite good in that area now as well?

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03-03-2013, 01:14 AM
  #10
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Kadri is a potential franchise center?

Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed with what Kadri has been doing this season, but come on.

Chances are the amount of points RNH scored last year in his rookie season is about the top end of the offensive potential Kadri has. It's not a bad thing at all, but compared to RNH's offensive potential, I don't think they come close.

With regards to RNH. He's fine. To make the step from sheltered minutes to tough minutes as well as he has is impressive. Combine that with how many chances he regularly gets, and I'm not super worried. Yes offensively he couldn't score with a $5 ***** from Tijuana right now. But he's both creating chances and getting chances for himself. Eventually he or one of his linemates will remember how to score again, and his points will shoot up.

This is a slump. Not some mismanagement in development (a la Sam Gagner).

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03-03-2013, 01:24 AM
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Exactly how I feel

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03-03-2013, 01:29 AM
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are you really comparing RNH to nazem kadri? really? reeeeallly?

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03-03-2013, 01:30 AM
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yeah, me too man, me too

i can't even believe this is a thread

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03-03-2013, 01:35 AM
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If you know what he did in his first 9 games last year, you would know that it was the right decision to keep him in the bigs. Ridiculous comparison.

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03-03-2013, 01:46 AM
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I think some are forgetting the reasons Kadri was not a full time leaf was due to his work ethic, conditioning, and lack of defensive awareness. That was the reason why he was on the Marlies for more than a year until he finally got his act together this season.
Comparing RNH to Kadri is apples and oranges, RNH is going through a slump, he is still making plays and defensively responsible.

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03-03-2013, 01:58 AM
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RNH is dead cold offensively. Has been all season.

The comparison is out there yes, but these are the kind of threads that will pop up when a player of his calibre is going though a stretch like he is. One goal in his last, what, 35-40 games played? 7 points all season? It's got a lot of the fan base worried. Being one of the bipolar ones myself who flip on moods towards the team on a game by game basis, RNH being consistently poor offensively for 20 games has me going absolutely nuts, pulling my hair out.

All that being said, he'll be fine. Confident in that (almost )

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03-03-2013, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by AUAIOMRN View Post
I think it's the time he spent this year playing against AHL/Junior competition that hurt him.

What he (and still Hall and Eberle) still need to learn is what they can't get away with in the NHL. Playing against weaker competition will just breed bad habits.
RNH wasn't near as dominant in OKC as the others IMO. He got outmuscled a lot I thought, you can tell that he is still young and strength will eventually come. His time in OKC did make him more complete player in his own zone, according to him.

These guys struggled to a certain extent coming to the AHL from the NHL, ideally they wouldn't change their playing style, but the play is different between the two leagues, but it's been 20 games since the lockput ended so adjustment phase shouldn't be used as an excuse.

I hear a lot about how their stint in OKC was detrimental to their development, but if you ask them they will say they think it was useful and improved on some aspect of the game.

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03-03-2013, 02:38 AM
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This is Toronto 'peaking'!

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03-03-2013, 02:41 AM
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RNH was really out of place in the NHL last year and couldn't get any offense going whatsoever. Him and the entire team just aren't getting any breaks right now, he'll turn it around sooner or later.

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03-03-2013, 03:30 AM
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Yes RNH would be more developed right now if he played in junior last year....

yeesh.

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03-03-2013, 04:02 AM
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RNH is on a different level defensively then he was last year, it's crazy because he's only 19.

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03-03-2013, 04:07 AM
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yeah, me too man, me too

i can't even believe this is a thread
ditto

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03-03-2013, 06:31 AM
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RNH this year has a better overall defensive game, maybe not as effective on the power play but this guy is still creating chances, and getting a lot of scoring chances. The puck just isn't bouncing his way right now

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03-03-2013, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DK28 View Post
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...-be-held-down/

This article about Kadri has me wondering if RNH would have been better off with Edmonton following Toronto's development strategy. I get that RNH, being a #1 overall pick, there is expectation from the fan base etc. For him to play right away.

Kadri is 22, potential franchise centre, point per game player this year leading leafs in scoring, developing an all around game, 6'0 185lbs. Goes to tough areas of the ice, takes puck to the net. So the article implies.

RNH is almost 20, potential franchise centre, potential to be 90 point guy, struggling. 6'1 185 lbs. Seems to be lagging a bit in aspects of his game in his second year.

Would RNH be a better player today, more developed, had he went back to Red Deer for one more year and learned to be a pro with tough love in OKC?

How do these two players compare longer term as a result, granted RNH has higher offensive ceiling, but Kadri is looking quite good in that area now as well?
What aspects of his game would be better today had he gone back to Red Deer? Would he be better defensively? Would it have taught him how to play against top line NHL'ers? Would he be better at faceoffs?

Honestly, this thread makes no sense.

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03-03-2013, 07:05 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DK28 View Post
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...-be-held-down/

This article about Kadri has me wondering if RNH would have been better off with Edmonton following Toronto's development strategy. I get that RNH, being a #1 overall pick, there is expectation from the fan base etc. For him to play right away.

Kadri is 22, potential franchise centre, point per game player this year leading leafs in scoring, developing an all around game, 6'0 185lbs. Goes to tough areas of the ice, takes puck to the net. So the article implies.

RNH is almost 20, potential franchise centre, potential to be 90 point guy, struggling. 6'1 185 lbs. Seems to be lagging a bit in aspects of his game in his second year.

Would RNH be a better player today, more developed, had he went back to Red Deer for one more year and learned to be a pro with tough love in OKC?

How do these two players compare longer term as a result, granted RNH has higher offensive ceiling, but Kadri is looking quite good in that area now as well?
not even going waste my time with reading the article

Up to two weeks ago Kadris was the whipping boy of the leafs media--over night their views has seemingly changed

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