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Has Gagner proven to you to be a legit 2C?

View Poll Results: Is Gagner a legit 2C
Yes proven 2C keep him 184 67.40%
Yes proven 2C trade him 44 16.12%
No not a proven 2C 45 16.48%
Voters: 273. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:12 AM
  #301
AlowlyOilersfan
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He hasn't proven that he's not a 2C

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:24 AM
  #302
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delete this post plz Lol


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Old
02-14-2013, 03:33 AM
  #303
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Its interesting that 85% of respondents in the poll feel Gagner is a legit number 2C but the majority of posts we see on this topic are from the few posters that think he isn't. For years, all day any day we've heard this. Typically from posters that have to express it 50 times/week.

Where they at now?

Must be tough Gagner hating days.

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02-14-2013, 03:40 AM
  #304
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The one thing I really admired about Gagner is his ability and his determination to not let himself down.

For all the criticism he gets and his physical shortcomings, he works his butt off to overcome these.

You can never underestimate a player's heart, work ethic, and determination despite their physical limitations. That is why I think keeping him here for the young players to look up to him as a role model is a good idea.

In the first episode of Oil Change, I loved where they showed Gagner mentoring Yakupov.

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02-14-2013, 08:40 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Blue And Orange View Post
The one thing I really admired about Gagner is his ability and his determination to not let himself down.

For all the criticism he gets and his physical shortcomings, he works his butt off to overcome these.

You can never underestimate a player's heart, work ethic, and determination despite their physical limitations. That is why I think keeping him here for the young players to look up to him as a role model is a good idea.

In the first episode of Oil Change, I loved where they showed Gagner mentoring Yakupov.
So, now he is the little steam engine that could... . For all his determination and work ethic, he still sucks at the primary responsibility(s) of a center.

Most people critical of Gagner-at-center want him to remain with the team. Play him on wing, take advantage of his heart (no one doubts that), and put him in a position to succeed.



And "R", I am not doubting that there is discord on the club... and, as I mentioned above, I am not advocating trading Gagner - granted, I would if the return were there, I just don't see him as a fit at center.


What I find especially amusing is the sympathetic 'root for the under-dog' mentality of many pro-Gagner people. That in itself is telling.

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02-14-2013, 10:19 AM
  #306
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When he came back from his injury last year, Gagner was played on the wing and looked horrible. Part of it could have been the injury, but I just don't think his skill set works on the wing - he doesn't have the speed/skating ability of a player like Hemsky or the shot of Eberle/Yakupov and he's not a banger like Horton.

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02-14-2013, 10:19 AM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Its interesting that 85% of respondents in the poll feel Gagner is a legit number 2C but the majority of posts we see on this topic are from the few posters that think he isn't. For years, all day any day we've heard this. Typically from posters that have to express it 50 times/week.

Where they at now?

Must be tough Gagner hating days.


Hmm! In every thread and every day we can hear from you about Gagners development this year! First it was whitneys fault that sam and his line was - and bleeding 5 on 5, but that misunderstanding has been cleared lately. I dont know what player who suits Gagner in this team for you to like? It always another players fault to explain shortcomings from him.

That line is statistic horrible so far 5 on 5 and Gagner and Hemsky the worst of all in all defensive columns. Your development hasnt appear and almost every column 5 on 5 proves that.
He has still horrible defensive numbers, corsi etc.

The illusion that you try to make a truth with freaquently postings everywhere hasnt appear yet. Its good that Gagner producing but he has always done that in pp. When the team is among the best in the leuage at pp, it has even more impact on Gagners numbers and he flying under the radar in other ways.



I voted legit c but trade, because we need a better fit in that important position.
He is only on a 1 year tryout this year, so he isnt a proven 2 c in this team yet.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...20&sortdir=ASC

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=399 (compare earlier years)

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...012-13&sit=5v5

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...34+45+46+63+67

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Old
02-14-2013, 10:20 AM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Its interesting that 85% of respondents in the poll feel Gagner is a legit number 2C but the majority of posts we see on this topic are from the few posters that think he isn't. For years, all day any day we've heard this. Typically from posters that have to express it 50 times/week.

Where they at now?

Must be tough Gagner hating days.
Yeah, kinda crickets from the"Sammy Snowpants" crowd.
Not all that surprsing I guess.

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Old
02-14-2013, 10:39 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
Hmm! In every thread and every day we can hear from you about Gagners development this year! First it was whitneys fault that sam and his line was - and bleeding 5 on 5, but that misunderstanding has been cleared lately. I dont know what player who suits Gagner in this team for you to like? It always another players fault to explain shortcomings from him.

That line is statistic horrible so far 5 on 5 and Gagner and Hemsky the worst of all in all defensive columns. Your development hasnt appear and almost every column 5 on 5 proves that.
He has still horrible defensive numbers, corsi etc.

The illusion that you try to make a truth with freaquently postings everywhere hasnt appear yet. Its good that Gagner producing but he has always done that in pp. When the team is among the best in the leuage at pp, it has even more impact on Gagners numbers and he flying under the radar in other ways.



I voted legit c but trade, because we need a better fit in that important position.
He is only on a 1 year tryout this year, so he isnt a proven 2 c in this team yet.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...20&sortdir=ASC

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=399 (compare earlier years)

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...012-13&sit=5v5

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...34+45+46+63+67
Malkin must not be a 2c either he has been on the ice for more goals against this season than Gagner also has 1 more even strength point than him and Gagner has 1 more shorthanded point. i watch games not look at stats that have many outliers to them such that corsi and others has.

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02-14-2013, 10:45 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by longtimeoilfan View Post
What I find especially amusing is the sympathetic 'root for the under-dog' mentality of many pro-Gagner people.
How is Gagner in any way an "underdog"?
Kid was born into a wealthy hockey family. He has scored buckets of goals all through his career and was a sixth overall draft choice. Some underdog.

Quote:
That in itself is telling.
What exactly does it tell you? I'm curious. If I were the sort of person to jump to conclusions about a new poster I'd probably wonder what it tells me when one has but fifteen posts and ten of them are calling Gagner out by name.

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02-14-2013, 10:55 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
How is Gagner in any way an "underdog"?
Kid was born into a wealthy hockey family. He has scored buckets of goals all through his career and was a sixth overall draft choice. Some underdog.

What exactly does it tell you? I'm curious. If I were the sort of person to jump to conclusions about a new poster I'd probably wonder what it tells me when one has but fifteen posts and ten of them are calling Gagner out by name.
11 actually . I wonder if there is a corsi stat for Gagner haters post per Gagner hate%

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02-14-2013, 01:10 PM
  #312
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Precisely... Gagner's ineptitude at center has brought me to post.

What underdog? Perhaps it was a poor choice of words by me. What I was referring to was the "poor Gagner, he tries so hard and he gets no respect," "poor Gagner, its not his fault its insert another player's name's fault," or "Gagner is still young and still learning... give him a chance, all he does is try," etc., etc., etc., types of responses/arguments. I was going to make a puppy analogy, but some people don't like it when I compare Gagner to animals.

There is a reason that Gagner is such a divisive subject among fans.

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02-14-2013, 02:29 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longtimeoilfan View Post
Precisely... Gagner's ineptitude at center has brought me to post.

What underdog? Perhaps it was a poor choice of words by me. What I was referring to was the "poor Gagner, he tries so hard and he gets no respect," "poor Gagner, its not his fault its insert another player's name's fault," or "Gagner is still young and still learning... give him a chance, all he does is try," etc., etc., etc., types of responses/arguments. I was going to make a puppy analogy, but some people don't like it when I compare Gagner to animals.

There is a reason that Gagner is such a divisive subject among fans.
Perhaps because some people see fit to set up user accounts here and start posting just to add to the one topic noise.

I'll be clear on one thing here. The amount of registered posters here that spend the majority of their posting speaking about one player (negatively) is shocking. Many of us can list a half dozen of these posters easily my name that usually fill any Gagner topic around with derision and make every other thread about Gagner.

Whats with that?

I can't say what actually brought you to post, but that your posting is curious. I'll leave it at that.

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02-14-2013, 02:33 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Perhaps because some people see fit to set up user accounts here and start posting just to add to the one topic noise.

I'll be clear on one thing here. The amount of registered posters here that spend the majority of their posting speaking about one player (negatively) is shocking. Many of us can list a half dozen of these posters easily my name that usually fill any Gagner topic around with derision and make every other thread about Gagner.

Whats with that?

I can't say what actually brought you to post, but that your posting is curious. I'll leave it at that.
Careful with the stones R., you probably have more posts in this particular thread than anyone.

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02-14-2013, 02:46 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by longtimeoilfan View Post
Careful with the stones R., you probably have more posts in this particular thread than anyone.
kettle calling the pot black! It's not like Replacement rags on Nick Schultz all the time.....wait...

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02-14-2013, 02:56 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
Hmm! In every thread and every day we can hear from you about Gagners development this year! First it was whitneys fault that sam and his line was - and bleeding 5 on 5, but that misunderstanding has been cleared lately. I dont know what player who suits Gagner in this team for you to like? It always another players fault to explain shortcomings from him.
There is no misunderstanding. Catch my most recent post on that. Whitney has missed 3 games. When Whitney HAS been in the lineup he's been matched with Gagners line more than any other.
But the main thing is that the first line, in comparison, have received much more benefit of matching with J Schultz who has clearly been the best skater on this team.

Quote:
That line is statistic horrible so far 5 on 5 and Gagner and Hemsky the worst of all in all defensive columns. Your development hasnt appear and almost every column 5 on 5 proves that.
Um, no, he isn't. Although I'm sure you'll try to demonstrate that in some way.

Quote:
He has still horrible defensive numbers, corsi etc.
lets elicit the joke "corsi" stat which has been discredited here so many times. I wonder if you can even quote the derivation and formula for that stat.

Quote:
The illusion that you try to make a truth with freaquently postings everywhere hasnt appear yet. Its good that Gagner producing but he has always done that in pp.
Gagner is second on the club in ES pts, one behind Taylor hall. Gagner leads the club in pts with 13, and PP pts with 6. He also leads the club in sShorthanded pts. Anything else?

Quote:
When the team is among the best in the leuage at pp, it has even more impact on Gagners numbers and he flying under the radar in other ways.
Please elaborate.





Not sure what you wanted me to ascertain with these stats. I have no use for such things as corsi derivatives and especially as quoted with a short sample of games. Corsi as such, in any of its forms from Corsi, to team corsi, to relative corsi was never meant to be quoted with this limited amount of games in the sample.

[/QUOTE]
Its interesting that you quote as silly as this in your ardent pursuit of all things wrong with Gagner. Again, these numbers weren't meant for use with limited game sample. But even given that if you checked back to last years stats they read completely differently. Also curious that last season Josh Green and Paajarvi had among the highest "corsi on" lol

Its such a garbage stat.

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02-14-2013, 02:57 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by longtimeoilfan View Post
Careful with the stones R., you probably have more posts in this particular thread than anyone.
I'm a prolific poster. I probably have more posts on most topics than a lot of other posters. I just happen to post here regularly, not on one topic.

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02-14-2013, 02:57 PM
  #318
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Amazing. The thread is about Gagner. It's inviting people for their opinions. And then some posters come on to say there are too many Gagner posts from a guy. , Not to say Gagner is necessarily a bad player, but not a good fit, given what we have in our top 6 and we simply need a different type of player there, and offer some suggestions for a different look...... and then the inevitible torches and pitchfork crowd come out after them. Apparently on here, you're only supposed to offer support for certain players and diss others (Nick Schultz, coach Krueger).

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02-14-2013, 02:59 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Booya42 View Post
kettle calling the pot black! It's not like Replacement rags on Nick Schultz all the time.....wait...
Am I a one topic poster that just signed up to speak specifically about one topic and even said so?

Yes or no?

The poster in question has just admitted doing so.


See the difference?

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02-14-2013, 03:07 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
Amazing. The thread is about Gagner. It's inviting people for their opinions. And then some posters come on to say there are too many Gagner posts from a guy. , Not to say Gagner is necessarily a bad player, but not a good fit, given what we have in our top 6 and we simply need a different type of player there, and offer some suggestions for a different look...... and then the inevitible torches and pitchfork crowd come out after them. Apparently on here, you're only supposed to offer support for certain players and diss others (Nick Schultz, coach Krueger).
You have trouble discerning the logic. A poster mentioned coming onto the board for one specific reason, to post on one specific topic.


I would encourage anybody that posts here to be involved beyond one specific topic on a multitopic, multithread board, that is devoted to a a league of teams and with this board being dedicated to one team in general, not one player in general.

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02-14-2013, 03:16 PM
  #321
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I come to these boards to provoke Replacement, so I guess that puts me in many threads.

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02-14-2013, 03:18 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
You have trouble discerning the logic. A poster mentioned coming onto the board for one specific reason, to post on one specific topic.


I would encourage anybody that posts here to be involved beyond one specific topic on a multitopic, multithread board, that is devoted to a a league of teams and with this board being dedicated to one team in general, not one player in general.

I have no problem discerning logic. But you seem to have a problem discerning reality. Again, this thread is about Gagner. A poster should be allowed to make as many posts as he likes on the subject. God knows you make hundreds of posts on here promoting Gagner, and on various other threads. If other posters wish to make counter arguments that don't reflect your opinion, they should be allowed to do so without your blessing and approval.

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02-14-2013, 03:19 PM
  #323
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I come to these boards to provoke Replacement, so I guess that puts me in many threads.

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02-14-2013, 03:19 PM
  #324
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Careful with the stones R., you probably have more posts in this particular thread than anyone.
Re: Careful with the stones R., you probably have more posts in this particular thread than anyone.

I actually counted back to page 10 (so 4 pages of 13) and you have 22 posts... one can assume that there will be at least 1 more in reply to this. So, 23 posts in 4 pages. Curious that you are the one that is critical of people expressing something "50 times." And comments like "Where they at now?" do invite replies (and you're verging on personal attacks of people that don't share your opinion... which I don't see coming from the Gagner-has-no-place-playing-center crowd... just saying).

For the record, I think it is quite chivalrous of you (and others) to defend Gagner's honor.

And I am happy with agreeing to disagree about Gagner's capabilities as a center. He has many admirable qualities as a player, I just don't believe playing center is one of them. And either he develops into the role as the teams 2nd line center, or he doesn't. Its only been what, 6 years? Our arguing about it here isn't going to change that... 'our' competent GM holds all those cards. And he isn't reading these pages for advice on what to do. (That, and I am tired of this... maybe I am simply not cut out to 'blog'.)

I felt a need to vent a little frustration over a player on the team... and you, and others, are adamant in your support of him and his 13 points. Obviously we see a different player in Gagner and have different opinions on the role of a center. Its all good... I now live in Ontario, I used to live in Edmonton, it is nice to have people to chat Oilers with, as its all Maple Leaf talk around here. And much to my chagrin, a little Canuck talk.

I am done with this particular thread... I will leave off with: In my opinion, based upon what I have seen from him, Gagner has no place as a center on the Oilers. His size has as little to do with it as his 13 points.


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02-14-2013, 03:23 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
I have no problem discerning logic. But you seem to have a problem discerning reality. Again, this thread is about Gagner. A poster should be allowed to make as many posts as he likes on the subject. God knows you make hundreds of posts on here promoting Gagner, and on various other threads. If other posters wish to make counter arguments that don't reflect your opinion, they should be allowed to do so without your blessing and approval.
I have no problem with an opinion. One way or the other. If I did I don't know I'd involve myself in discussions.

Does this need to be a long exchange?

Is this parrot deceased?

ps I never said you had trouble with logic.


nothing else going on in the board today hey?

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