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Has Gagner proven to you to be a legit 2C?

View Poll Results: Is Gagner a legit 2C
Yes proven 2C keep him 184 67.40%
Yes proven 2C trade him 44 16.12%
No not a proven 2C 45 16.48%
Voters: 273. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-14-2013, 03:24 PM
  #326
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Old
02-14-2013, 03:25 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by longtimeoilfan View Post
Re: Careful with the stones R., you probably have more posts in this particular thread than anyone.

I actually counted back to page 10 (so 4 pages of 13) and you have 22 posts... one can assume that there will be at least 1 more in reply to this. So, 23 posts in 4 pages. Curious that you are the one that is critical of people expressing something "50 times." And comments like "Where they at now?" do invite replies (its almost a personal attack... which I don't see coming from the Gagner-has-no-place-playing-center crowd... just saying).

For the record, I think it is quite chivalrous of you (and others) to defend Gagner's honor.

And I am happy with agreeing to disagree about Gagner's capabilities as a center. He has many admirable qualities as a player, I just don't believe playing center is one of them. And either he develops into the role as the teams 2nd line center, or he doesn't. Its only been what, 6 years? Our arguing about it here isn't going to change that... 'our' competent GM holds all those cards. And he isn't reading these pages for advice on what to do. (That, and I am tired of this... maybe I am simply not cut out to 'blog'.)

I felt a need to vent a little frustration over a player on the team... and you, and others, are adamant in your support of him and his 13 points. Obviously we see a different player in Gagner and have different opinions on the role of a center. Its all good... I now live in Ontario, I used to live in Edmonton, it is nice to have people to chat Oilers with, as its all Maple Leaf talk around here. And much to me chagrin, a little Canuck talk.

I am done with this particular thread... I will leave off with: In my opinion, based upon what I have seen from him, Gagner has no place as a center on the Oilers. His size has as little to do with it as his 13 points.
Can you please respond to one of your own posts again, that would be an epic way to end this thread.

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Old
02-14-2013, 03:25 PM
  #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longtimeoilfan View Post
Re: Careful with the stones R., you probably have more posts in this particular thread than anyone.

I actually counted back to page 10 (so 4 pages of 13) and you have 22 posts... one can assume that there will be at least 1 more in reply to this. So, 23 posts in 4 pages. Curious that you are the one that is critical of people expressing something "50 times." And comments like "Where they at now?" do invite replies (its almost a personal attack... which I don't see coming from the Gagner-has-no-place-playing-center crowd... just saying).

For the record, I think it is quite chivalrous of you (and others) to defend Gagner's honor.

And I am happy with agreeing to disagree about Gagner's capabilities as a center. He has many admirable qualities as a player, I just don't believe playing center is one of them. And either he develops into the role as the teams 2nd line center, or he doesn't. Its only been what, 6 years? Our arguing about it here isn't going to change that... 'our' competent GM holds all those cards. And he isn't reading these pages for advice on what to do. (That, and I am tired of this... maybe I am simply not cut out to 'blog'.)

I felt a need to vent a little frustration over a player on the team... and you, and others, are adamant in your support of him and his 13 points. Obviously we see a different player in Gagner and have different opinions on the role of a center. Its all good... I now live in Ontario, I used to live in Edmonton, it is nice to have people to chat Oilers with, as its all Maple Leaf talk around here. And much to me chagrin, a little Canuck talk.

I am done with this particular thread... I will leave off with: In my opinion, based upon what I have seen from him, Gagner has no place as a center on the Oilers. His size has as little to do with it as his 13 points.
Theres an echo in here.

You can post as much as you like and I encourage you, and anybody to do so, unfortunately on this particular day you've caught me with grumpy flu filled brain..

What I was more referring to is one topic only posters and we usually have several of those in the ongoing Omark threads just as example.


Last edited by Replacement: 02-14-2013 at 03:30 PM.
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Old
02-14-2013, 03:25 PM
  #329
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Sorry, unable to edit....


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Old
02-14-2013, 03:26 PM
  #330
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Needs to be moved to wing. Find a center who can play those minutes and win draws.

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Old
02-14-2013, 03:29 PM
  #331
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I come to these boards to provoke Replacement, so I guess that puts me in many threads.


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So much love here on valentines day.

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Old
02-14-2013, 03:34 PM
  #332
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Its interesting that 85% of respondents in the poll feel Gagner is a legit number 2C but the majority of posts we see on this topic are from the few posters that think he isn't. For years, all day any day we've heard this. Typically from posters that have to express it 50 times/week.

Where they at now?

Must be tough Gagner hating days.
Shut up dude. You talk too much. Like way too much and with 25% less Omark posting content these days.

You're letting the hfboard team down with inconsequential babble.

No wonder the Oilers can't get it together.

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Old
02-14-2013, 03:40 PM
  #333
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/lockthread

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:15 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I have no problem with an opinion. One way or the other. If I did I don't know I'd involve myself in discussions.

Does this need to be a long exchange?

Is this parrot deceased?

ps I never said you had trouble with logic.


nothing else going on in the board today hey?
Well...actually you did.

"You have trouble discerning the logic."


As for the rest of the board, I've posted in other threads from time to time, dependent on what interests me. Slow day on here. There's the usual Tambo bashing threads, but I tire of those at the moment. The trade threads but nothing there interests me. Nothing new on the Eskimo front till likely tomorrow. Once the hockey team plays again on Saturday, I'll see if I can get my two cents in then, if that's okay with the populace.

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:35 PM
  #335
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Am I a one topic poster that just signed up to speak specifically about one topic and even said so?

Yes or no?

The poster in question has just admitted doing so.


See the difference?
No offense intended Replacement, just some harmless ribbing considering the topic of over posting about players.

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:58 PM
  #336
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I think we should make Ben Eager our #1 centerman and trade RNH to the canucks for Kassian.

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Old
02-14-2013, 05:02 PM
  #337
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Well...actually you did.

"You have trouble discerning the logic."


As for the rest of the board, I've posted in other threads from time to time, dependent on what interests me. Slow day on here. There's the usual Tambo bashing threads, but I tire of those at the moment. The trade threads but nothing there interests me. Nothing new on the Eskimo front till likely tomorrow. Once the hockey team plays again on Saturday, I'll see if I can get my two cents in then, if that's okay with the populace.
I could swear I stated "this logic" In anycase my intent was stating it specifically to this point. Note I did write "the logic" not "Logic" (which would mean in general.) You obviously have no difficulty with logic. Just maybe the logic I was using..

man, I have a headache...

This board is really dead though. I wonder if the lockout did impact anything and result in less fans taking interest and posting.

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Old
02-15-2013, 08:52 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by longtimeoilfan View Post
So, now he is the little steam engine that could... . For all his determination and work ethic, he still sucks at the primary responsibility(s) of a center.

Most people critical of Gagner-at-center want him to remain with the team. Play him on wing, take advantage of his heart (no one doubts that), and put him in a position to succeed.

And "R", I am not doubting that there is discord on the club... and, as I mentioned above, I am not advocating trading Gagner - granted, I would if the return were there, I just don't see him as a fit at center.

What I find especially amusing is the sympathetic 'root for the under-dog' mentality of many pro-Gagner people. That in itself is telling.
Are you for real?

Sam Gagner is leading the team in points, I don't know how you characterize that he sucking at the centre position when he's the only one that is consistently contributing to this team's anemic offense thus far.

It amazes me how people are so fast to discredit the kid for all the hard work he has done to make a name for himself. And I do believe there is an element of his story as being an underdog.

The kid got thrusted into the spotlight at 18 years old with a poor player development system under the Lowe regime. I'm amazed Gagner hasn't demanded a trade because of of it. Fact is, the kid doesn't complain and never wants to hog the spotlight. After being buried under the hype of Hall, RNH, Eberle, and Yakupov, Gagner is quitely making a name for himself this season. Does he still have work to do in some areas of his game? Absolutely. But to discredit the kid after all the hardwork he has made to overcome adversity is just mind boggling.

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Old
02-15-2013, 09:25 AM
  #339
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Gagner has been a legit second line center since his rookie year. Not every team can have Malkin as their #2 C. Points wise, Gagner has been in the top 50 for C every year.

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Old
02-15-2013, 09:32 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Sorry, unable to edit....

Some Gagner supporters may take exception to this.

Not me though..good find on the vid IATL!

I still maintain that Gags is a good #2 center. He's in the top 10 as #2's IMO. I'd suggest that he is better than a number of #1 centers in the league. And he does look a hella stronger this year than previous years. AND I've seen some very nice defensive plays this year that I haven't seen in previous years as well.

Face it, this kid is quietly leading this team right now in the right way. If anything, we need MORE Gagner's.

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02-15-2013, 01:55 PM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Its interesting that 85% of respondents in the poll feel Gagner is a legit number 2C but the majority of posts we see on this topic are from the few posters that think he isn't. For years, all day any day we've heard this. Typically from posters that have to express it 50 times/week.

Where they at now?

Must be tough Gagner hating days.
Its surprising that 67% want to keep him and only 32,5% want to trade him, but the pity factor is big here, it only needs a couple of good games from him to overreact. Its strange also because most of the hockey journalist and "experts" want to trade him for upgrade, so the overreacting pity factor is pretty big here. Is it about 270 posters who has voted. How many fans do we have?

Do you think honestly that Gagner has made such a improvement in his defensive game, you talk so much about pruducing?. His line is worst in the team, 5 on 5 is horrible ,hall line to but they create and hasnt had Gagners history with wellknowned flaws. I think you know when this season is over has the first lines numbers straighten up and Gagners went down to normal(maybe a small improvement in points) and then i mean the pp numbers is so much over normal(but not the 5 on 5). His shooting 11 % on ice is way to high in his case and soon the "the unluck" begins, i would call it back to normal.

Ypu talk about posters who over posting in threads! In this thread you have 60+ posts about 20% of the total. Me for an example have 11 now!

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Old
02-15-2013, 02:38 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
Its surprising that 67% want to keep him and only 32,5% want to trade him, but the pity factor is big here, it only needs a couple of good games from him to overreact. Its strange also because most of the hockey journalist and "experts" want to trade him for upgrade, so the overreacting pity factor is pretty big here. Is it about 270 posters who has voted. How many fans do we have?

Do you think honestly that Gagner has made such a improvement in his defensive game, you talk so much about pruducing?. His line is worst in the team, 5 on 5 is horrible ,hall line to but they create and hasnt had Gagners history with wellknowned flaws. I think you know when this season is over has the first lines numbers straighten up and Gagners went down to normal(maybe a small improvement in points) and then i mean the pp numbers is so much over normal(but not the 5 on 5). His shooting 11 % on ice is way to high in his case and soon the "the unluck" begins, i would call it back to normal.

:
In what way is Gagners line "worst on the team"?
How much of that would be due to Gagner? Interestingly Gagner is -1 and his linemates are -4, and -7 respectivelly which suggest if anything that in the brief instances thus far that either hemsky or Yak have not been with Gagner they've been less effective.

Not sure what you mean either by Gagners 5 on 5 production. He leads the club so far in this regard. Highest on the team in pts/60mins generated.

Back to the drawing board for the critics I guess.

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02-15-2013, 02:57 PM
  #343
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Shall we review the MAJOR inherent flaws with corsi being used as an individual benchmark of performance for all to see yet again?

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02-16-2013, 02:14 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
In what way is Gagners line "worst on the team"?
How much of that would be due to Gagner? Interestingly Gagner is -1 and his linemates are -4, and -7 respectivelly which suggest if anything that in the brief instances thus far that either hemsky or Yak have not been with Gagner they've been less effective.

Not sure what you mean either by Gagners 5 on 5 production. He leads the club so far in this regard. Highest on the team in pts/60mins generated.

Back to the drawing board for the critics I guess.
This isnt any normal numbers for Hemsky (assume yakupov) only gagner has a pretty normal sh%. Do you think anyone with a sense of hockey iq thinks that Hal/Eberle/rnh unluck continues in a longer term? Outshooting opposition and create tons of chanches!

Is anyone thinking that Hemskys/yak sh% is going to be 23% when the season ends?, in hemskys case would be great with 14%. (he had 7% last year 14% 2010).http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...me=shootingAll

So that says us that 2 line been lucky if you take the fact that they have been outshot most in the team tells us that it could be ugly in the columns before the season ends.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...utes=50&disp=1

Corsi maybe isnt a good instrument for shorter periods but a indication of puckpossesion and puckpossesion leads to goals. OUTSHOT+LOW POSSESION + To high sh%= disaster when the numbers correct them selves.

It can happens that the line starts to play better(take away the producing luck) and thats would be great for our team, if their puck possesion is bigger leads to less sh against and fewer goal against.

Gagner is only -1 comparing to his linemates and together they are outshot, it means that Gagner been lucky with linechanges Also his pretty normal sh% says that his total points is created from hemsk/yaks abnormal sh% and majority is 2ass in pp.

We dont getting anywhere in this thread so you can continue to promote Gagner as the best offensive player in oilers and as a guy who has developed his flaws in other columns, which hasnt happen. You can give me a call when you hits 100 posts(next week) in this thread, so i can celebrate you.

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02-16-2013, 02:37 PM
  #345
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In what way is Gagners line "worst on the team"?
How much of that would be due to Gagner? Interestingly Gagner is -1 and his linemates are -4, and -7 respectivelly which suggest if anything that in the brief instances thus far that either hemsky or Yak have not been with Gagner they've been less effective.

Not sure what you mean either by Gagners 5 on 5 production. He leads the club so far in this regard. Highest on the team in pts/60mins generated.

Back to the drawing board for the critics I guess.
Gagner has always been a competent offensive zone player.

His play in the defensive zone is the problem (those plus minus numbers you quoted are just noise). As a centre he is responsible for covering up offensive and neutral zone turnovers with solid defensive play. Once the play moves into his zone, he gets muscled off pucks and isn't strong enough on his skates to be anything but easy to cycle on.

It certainly doesn't help his cause that Yakupov (rookie) and Hemsky (Hemsky) have been turnover machines but at the end of the day, Sam Gagner playing centre, is a liability in his own end. For his own good I hope he gets converted to wing here or somewhere else, where I think he can be a very useful top 6 forward.

At present the Oilers need him at 2C but they won't be able to compete until a better two-way player is slotted behind RNH.

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02-16-2013, 02:44 PM
  #346
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Gagner should have a good +/-. He is not playing against other teams shutdown players and he is not be used to shut other teams top players down. He also has been racking up the EN points this season

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02-16-2013, 03:22 PM
  #347
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Not sure how long people need Gagner to be on a proving ground.

The guy has 55pts in his last 82GP. Good enough production to be #1Center on many clubs. Very few clubs have a #2 Center with these numbers.

Plus as far as intangibles the guy is all heart, loves playing here, WANTS to be part of this club, plays like he should be a captain(a real one) and does nothing but compete.

He's already there. But steadily improving, because Sam is never content and has the drive, like Eberle, to be the best he can be. You don't find many players like that. When you have em, you keep em. Regardless of size and theres plenty of battle in this dog.
True . He has always wanted to be here and has never complained . Sticks up for his team mates even if he going to take a beating . I hope he can keep his play up and improve on the dot . I alway liked Sam .

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02-16-2013, 03:29 PM
  #348
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Needs to be moved to wing. Find a center who can play those minutes and win draws.
Or maybe leave him at center and trade hem shy for a big winger who can win face-offs and then move right back to his wing

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02-16-2013, 04:13 PM
  #349
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Originally Posted by shogun99 View Post
Gagner has been a legit second line center since his rookie year. Not every team can have Malkin as their #2 C. Points wise, Gagner has been in the top 50 for C every year.
Offense is irrelevant for a center.

Only faceoff wins count


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02-16-2013, 04:19 PM
  #350
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Offense is irrelevant for a center.

Only faceoff wins count

As well as being 6'5

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