He's always had real wingers. Let's stop using the crappy linemates excuse for why our players haven't produced. It's getting old.
He has always had rookie wingers. He has never had the luxury of playing with a solid veteran fwd in all his time here, and that's surprising for someone who came out of junior at 18.
He has always had rookie wingers. He has never had the luxury of playing with a solid veteran fwd in all his time here, and that's surprising for someone who came out of junior at 18.
Whenever this gets mentioned it gets no response.
At NO POINT did the org ever shelter Gagner or even have the type of players that could do that.
At no point did Gagner get a year of players that properly complemented his good downlow play.
Really the org has exposed this player in every way and never worse than when he was expected to shelter Omark and Paajarvi, two raw rookies who subsequently proved they were not ready for the NHL game.
Meanwhile Horc was spending time on a veteran line but bleeding anyway. When he was even playing.
He's not getting the cherry minutes he got in his rookie season. That's why he looks worse.
Bingo. No protection from a 1st line like last year. He IS the first line now. And there is an obvious adjustment period. Despite his scoring struggles, he is twice the player he was last year, with his work along the boards and strength. Once he gets over this adjustment period with the new role, new coach and new system, he'll be fine.
At NO POINT did the org ever shelter Gagner or even have the type of players that could do that.
At no point did Gagner get a year of players that properly complemented his good downlow play.
Really the org has exposed this player in every way and never worse than when he was expected to shelter Omark and Paajarvi, two raw rookies who subsequently proved they were not ready for the NHL game.
Meanwhile Horc was spending time on a veteran line but bleeding anyway. When he was even playing.
And here I thought Horcoff was the #1 centre all these years until this year.
Not sure how long people need Gagner to be on a proving ground.
The guy has 55pts in his last 82GP. Good enough production to be #1Center on many clubs. Very few clubs have a #2 Center with these numbers.
Plus as far as intangibles the guy is all heart, loves playing here, WANTS to be part of this club, plays like he should be a captain(a real one) and does nothing but compete.
He's already there. But steadily improving, because Sam is never content and has the drive, like Eberle, to be the best he can be. You don't find many players like that. When you have em, you keep em. Regardless of size and theres plenty of battle in this dog.
Don't know what more he needs to do to prove himself. This team still has plenty of holes; 2C isn't one of them.
I agree. Realisticly, and I am huge Nuge fan, #1C is more of hole now than #2C. I know nuge will grow into that role and come around, just saying. Gags is the last of our worries right now.
Gagner may be a fine 2nd line center... but he is not the 2nd line center that the Oilers need. I cannot believe people don't see this.
Its not about Gagner's point streak, its about the team winning games and to do this, they need a more effective top six scoring meaningful goals. Many of his points are meaningless and 2nd assists, they are not = wins.
I believe that we would see a much more effective top six is they started winning face offs; and with the wingers this team has it makes sense that the defensive duties fall to the center(s) along with some measure of physicality. Gagner simply hasn't the tools for the 2nd line center position on this team. Its not really a criticism of him, more a statement of the team.
Gagner has value... if I were Tambellini I would be calling other teams and offering a swap of sorts. Colorado isn't doing much with O'Reilly, surely a healthy, competitive and productive Gagner is a better option for them than what they have now. Or whomever...
Gagner may be a fine 2nd line center... but he is not the 2nd line center that the Oilers need. I cannot believe people don't see this.
Its not about Gagner's point streak, its about the team winning games and to do this, they need a more effective top six scoring meaningful goals. Many of his points are meaningless and 2nd assists, they are not = wins.
You lost me here. In the NHL, there aren't "meaningless" goals. There are definitely goals that hold more value in situation then others, but given how important goal scoring is and how hard it is to actually do, to call some goals "meaningless" is just false, and suggested a pre-existing bias.
I'm still intrigued by Cody Hodgson, he has more size and more of the tools I think we need. I'd do a Hemsky + Gagner for Hodgson + Stafford swap.
I think that Buffalo would to it too, depending how high they are on Hodgson, because they're likely getting the best players. That said, this deal makes sense for the Oilers because of the difference in needs for each team.
I think that Buffalo would to it too, depending how high they are on Hodgson, because they're likely getting the best players. That said, this deal makes sense for the Oilers because of the difference in needs for each team.
Yeah Buffalo drafted Grigorenko and Grigsens (sp?) so they have some center depth in their system to trade anyway.
You lost me here. In the NHL, there aren't "meaningless" goals. There are definitely goals that hold more value in situation then others, but given how important goal scoring is and how hard it is to actually do, to call some goals "meaningless" is just false, and suggested a pre-existing bias.
I agree, there are not meaningless goals... and if Gagner's points were all goals, things might be different (albeit, he would still be too small, soft, and poor on faceoffs to be of use as the Oil's 2nd line center).
I'm still intrigued by Cody Hodgson, he has more size and more of the tools I think we need. I'd do a Hemsky + Gagner for Hodgson + Stafford swap.
Nothing against Sam, I would just feel more comfortable with a legit 6 footer as our 2nd line C given all our other size issues.
I think both Oilers are better than their Buffalo counterparts (and Hemsky is better than Stafford by alot), so no deal.
1 inch really means that much to you? Sorry to break it to you but that's highly ridiculous. Gagner is the more physical stronger player to boot, and Hodgson isn't exactly a speedster either. If you like Hodgson better that's fine, but to cite a 1 inch difference...
I agree, there are not meaningless goals... and if Gagner's points were all goals, things might be different (albeit, he would still be too small, soft, and poor on faceoffs to be of use as the Oil's 2nd line center).
I said meaningless points.
Last year after Gags had his 8 point night, posters said "great, but he needs to put up points consistently before I'll believe that he can be our 2C".
So this season, he puts up a point a game, and it still isn't enough.
Yes his faceoffs need a ton of work, but saying he can't be a legit 2C because he's "too small" is asinine.
Last year after Gags had his 8 point night, posters said "great, but he needs to put up points consistently before I'll believe that he can be our 2C".
So this season, he puts up a point a game, and it still isn't enough.
Yes his faceoffs need a ton of work, but saying he can't be a legit 2C because he's "too small" is asinine.
He is too small to be 'our' 2C... I didn't say he is a bad player, I just said he is not the right center for the Oil - given that 'we' have Nugent-Hopkins as the 1C and 'we' struggle on the dot. If Getzlaf were centering the top line, I would be fine with Gagner on the 2nd...
And he is putting up a point a game, but 'we're' still losing. Honestly, how many of his points are 2nd assists? How many are meaningless?
Last year after Gags had his 8 point night, posters said "great, but he needs to put up points consistently before I'll believe that he can be our 2C".
So this season, he puts up a point a game, and it still isn't enough.
Yes his faceoffs need a ton of work, but saying he can't be a legit 2C because he's "too small" is asinine.
So 10 games = consistency? Remember when everyone figured that he was a lock for 50 points after his insane hot streak? If he can stay there for all 48 games we're onto something. 10 games? Premature praise IMO.
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