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Team name origins

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02-05-2013, 08:35 PM
  #26
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
What?!... ok, now you people are annoying me. Lets get this straight; there was a Chief Blackhawk, legendary Native American Warrior. WW1, a volunteer squadron of Yankee's from Illinois named after him. The owner of the franchise, a Major in the Battalion (Machine Gun to be precise) naming his NHL franchise same. End of story.... except for "Big Jim" Norris being mightily annoyed that he was outbid by Major Fred Mclaughlin for same. Winds up instead buying the Detroit (re-named the Red Wings, logo ripped off from an old Montreal Team, Norris's hometown) Cougars who were in Receivership. The rest history.
A little more info...

Before purchasing the NHL team in Detroit, Norris purchased an AHA team in Chicago and named them the Shamrocks. They only played 2 seasons, but actually won the league championship in their 2nd and petitioned to compete for the Stanley Cup. This petition was denied by the NHL, but when the Detroit Falcons (previously named the Cougars) declared bankruptcy Norris was able to convince the NHL to let him take over the team, which he re-named the Red Wings. One condition attached was that Norris had to disband the Shamrocks who had been drawing fans away from the Black Hawks. Norris did dissolve the Shamrocks and took 3 players with him to Detroit.

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02-05-2013, 08:58 PM
  #27
Killion
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
A little more info...

Before purchasing the NHL team in Detroit, Norris purchased an AHA team in Chicago and named them the Shamrocks. They only played 2 seasons, but actually won the league championship in their 2nd and petitioned to compete for the Stanley Cup. This petition was denied by the NHL, but when the Detroit Falcons (previously named the Cougars) declared bankruptcy Norris was able to convince the NHL to let him take over the team, which he re-named the Red Wings. One condition attached was that Norris had to disband the Shamrocks who had been drawing fans away from the Black Hawks. Norris did dissolve the Shamrocks and took 3 players with him to Detroit.
Ya, thats a known story right there that speaks volumes as to Big Jims mindset, the manner in which he operated as a Pollywog out of Montreal. Big frikin deal on the Chicago Mercantile Board, not so much as a "Celebrity Sportsman" locally and that you just gotta know irked him to no end. Local boy Fred McLaughlin from a Silver Spoon Family having it his way. Time to pull out the Knuckle Dusters, which he did, and it wasnt enough, the Major hanging on & in there. Absolutely rough & tumble, an age & era that included in Chicago Scarface Al Capone and any other number of miscreants available for a price. Seriously. Would you like to have a conversation about the Blackhawks & Chicago Stadium with what was left of Capones Gang acting as an Emissary for Jim Norris?

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02-06-2013, 03:47 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by LeBlondeDemon10 View Post
Winnipeg was supposed to become the center of the continent providing the railway continued to be the primary mode of transportation and movement of goods. It is ironic that they are named the Jets.
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Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
Winnipeg Jets

I believe the name was taken from the NY Jets because the (Wpg) Jets first owner Ben haskins was a ny jets fan
Haskins owned the Junior team that was named the Jets and then got the WHA team and kept the same name. Not sure about the football reference, thought it was because they had some aviation and air force there.

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02-06-2013, 08:18 PM
  #29
Killion
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Originally Posted by goleafsgo87* View Post
The Maple Leafs say that the name was chosen in honour of the Maple Leaf Regiment from World War I. As the regiment is a proper noun, its plural is Maple Leafs (not Maple Leaves). Another story says that Smythe named the team after a team he had once scouted, called the East Toronto Maple Leafs, while Smythe's grandson stated that Conn named the team after the Maple Leaf insignia he had worn during the First World War.

Yepp...
but for this, discussed on an earlier thread;

Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
While getting schooled in some English the other night this came up when looking for the famed Maple Leaf Regiment of WW1.

Thank you to The Blue Devil for finding the essay. It brings into question the whole Maple Leafs origin story.

The current version:
According to The Leafs site at NHL.com:


According to (yuck)Wikipedia:

Atleast they mention the Baseball team.

It also mentions the missing Maple LEaf Regiment.

I am sure most of you have heard something similar as to what is mentioned above.

Now read this essay and see if you think the history of the Maple Leafs should be re-written?

http://1967ers.wordpress.com/2012/05...led-the-leafs/

Again thanks to The Blue Devil for finding the essay.

Thoughts?
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... interesting, hadnt heard this one before, and completely plausible. I was under the impression Smythe named them the Maple Leafs not after a Regiment (that didnt even exist) but based on the small Leaf emblem worn on the arm of all servicemen during WW1.

The name was changed from St.Pats to appeal to a broader audience (beyond Irish Catholics) and for the first year, though the team was called the Maple Leafs the colours remained green & white which makes more sense than blue & white from an organic & militaristic perspective. However, Toronto's colours, the Baseball Maple Leafs, the Toronto Argonauts & University of Toronto's Varsity Blues were all, well, Blue. Tradition, precedent, so Smythe joined in.

Important to remember as well, that he had a real connection to UofT & the Varsity Blues, so that too may have been another factor in dropping the green. That he also changed the name to capitalize on the pre-existant & very successful Maple Leafs Baseball club who's owner also ran the Mutual Street Arena in currying favour? Very likely. The name change to the Maple Leafs & colour scheme to blue & white worked on a multitude of levels, and Smythe was ever the opportunist. Ive concluded that all of these factors contributed to the name change & colour scheme. A confluence of many factors all arriving at the same place in time.
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... well, did you read the essay linked dubey? Its an interesting hypothesis & question. Did Smythe "really" re-name the St.Pats the Maple Leafs altruistically based on the inspirational emblem worn on the sleeves of Canadian Soldiers who sacrificed & died for King & Country?

Or did he piggyback, call them the Maple Leafs in order to capitalize on the success of the Baseball Team while simultaneously patronising the owner of that club who also owned the largest arena facility in Toronto at that time, a guy he'd need on-board and on-side in the early years if he was going to have a chance at success? Entirely possible.

And then when asked "why Maple Leafs Major Smythe"? Concocting that Mothers Milk story about the Maple Leaf being selected for purely honourable reasons. Revising history. Turning himself into a Saint. I love it. Makes perfect sense. No one would ever dare question his patriotism or motives the minute he invoked that whole "we are Marshall" and "The Maple Leaf Forever" palather. Conn Smythe was an outright Irish Huckster. Believe me. Know all about the type. I come from a long line of em.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... I guess no one really questioned it because Smythes explanation made perfect sense to anyone who knew the guy, in addition to which it was not uncommon in the late 19th & early 20th century for city teams competing in multi sports to share names & colours.

As for the roots of the handle "Maple Leafs" & why the Baseball Team mightve decided upon it, and Im guessing here, but I suspect we can trace that to the unofficial "Canadian Anthem" of the time called "The Maple Leaf Forever" along with the fact that Toronto itself was and still is absolutely full of Maple tree's.

Written by a local Torontonian by the name of Alexander Muir (a member of Torontos Queens Own Rifle Regiment) in 1867 to honour & celebrate Confederation, it was a staunchly pro-British piece of work that many in Quebec actually found rather offensive, words changed to reflect Quebec francophone interests rather than the Torontocentric english Canadian perspective. Often used/sang in replacing God Save the Queen at formal functions, in schools, before events & so on but I digress...

So I did some more digging, and interestingly, none other than J.P. Bickell seems to have had a greater hand in all of these permutations than ever suspected as well. Bickell was a beyond wealthy businessman (mining etc) who had bought shares in the Toronto Arenas', converted them into the Shamrocks, and when Smythe bought the Shamrocks, retained them as a minority partner. And heres where it really starts to get interesting;

Bickell was also involved with the Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball Club. On its Board of Directors from about 1922 (prior to which time the club was financially challenged, unstable despite there successes on the diamond) onward or so. After Smythe bought the St.Pats, changed the name to the Maple Leafs, looks like he also had an "inside man" in old J.P. there. Bickell seems to have been the "unseen hand of power" behind much. He was instrumental in helping to acquire the land upon which Maple Leaf Gardens was built, the buildings financing, a member of Maple Leaf Gardens Board of Directors for years afterwards, and indeed, you'll find the mans' name enscribed on the Stanley Cup 6 times; Winner. Inducted into the HHOF in 1978 in the Builders Category.
Bottom Line; good reason to believe Conn Smythe simply co-opted, "lifted" the Maple Leaf name & colours from the already long established baseball team, then made up that story about the arm patches etc in order to cover that little bit of larceny right there huh?


Last edited by Killion: 02-06-2013 at 08:29 PM.
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