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Cory Schneider

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Old
02-02-2013, 06:32 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Markstrom
Lindback

Neither Tampa nor Florida will deal for him. Your market is limited. Thus your return will be limited.
Neither of these goalies are as good as Schneider is. Your post is ineffective.

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02-02-2013, 06:32 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Steve Bennett View Post
Man I love this team!

I bet that guy posts here lol.

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02-02-2013, 06:35 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
He has become older and more expensive as well.
the logic in this post is limited. You would need to expand as to why Schneiders ripe old age and 4mil per year diminished his value. Stands to reason its expanded his value, not devalued him.

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02-02-2013, 06:37 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
This is last I can say about it since I'm gearing up for Bruins at Leafs tonight.

(a) I never said on average he's played more tough opponents then Luongo but he has definitely faced top teams with regularity and looked excellent.

(b) Look no further then the playoffs last year. You know the thing that caused all the controversy and Luongo asking to be traded? Yeah that was AV picking CS for the biggest games of the year. And he started this season instead of Luongo. He has plenty of faith in him.

You can't have it both ways, (1ab) whoever starts is worth the most and the backup plays the weaker teams thus having lower value for both Roberto Luongo or Cory Schneider.

They happen to have two very good goaltenders who get played on hot streaks, hunches, whatever against the best of the best regardless.
So... progress.

We've established that he faces a weaker subset of the opposition, on average... that same average that his sv% /gaa is based on. So, it would be reasonable to conlclude that his numbers would be inferior if he faced the #1 opposition. From there, it's the mental toughness of being able to play every night, knowing that the team's success hinges on him... a huge factor in finding starting goaltenders, and something that he hasn't shown the ability to do at age 26.

Whoever starts is whoever the guy that knows them best thinks is better. Last year, that was most often Roberto Luongo, and this year, that seems to be the case as well.

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02-02-2013, 06:37 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I totally get that, which is why I've made an effort to suggest that I'm specifically talking about value. I hope that's not confusing.



The only questions for Cory Schneider are (a) can he put up those numbers playing 50-60 games a year and (b) does being the clear cut number one goalie [not having Luongo] have any effect on his mental game.

(a) I don't worry about at all. He's put up fantastic numbers and performances playing the best of the best in the biggest of games. I really can't see how playing more [weaker teams] changes his ability. I think it's a silly way to look at it if that's what you mean.

(b) We don't really know but he's been able to bounce back after bad games or team outings, he deals with goalie controversy extremely well and is well spoken with the media. It would seem this is no issue what-so-ever as well.

If you wait and want to be 100% sure he's the next best goal tender in the NHL you'll never get him. As far as Brobovski goes, I can't say the same for him in either circumstance. From a pure talent standpoint he is well below Schneider just watching them play in the games you do get to see.
I appreciate your candor. I also appreciate you at least trying to address your teams situation instead of sitting back and putting others down .

There is no doubt Gardiner is going to be good, but we are overstacked at the D position so couldnt deal for that. But value wize its a good starting point to then add.

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02-02-2013, 06:38 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Neither of these goalies are as good as Schneider is. Your post is ineffective.
Both goalies are younger and have had less time to prove themselves. By the time they are 27 they both could be as good or better then Schneider. Also you can say the gap between them and Schneider is not enough for them to give up what Canucks fans think Schneider is worth.


Last edited by HooliganX2: 02-02-2013 at 06:44 PM.
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02-02-2013, 06:39 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
So... progress.

We've established that he faces a weaker subset of the opposition, on average... that same average that his sv% /gaa is based on. So, it would be reasonable to conlclude that his numbers would be inferior if he faced the #1 opposition. From there, it's the mental toughness of being able to play every night, knowing that the team's success hinges on him... a huge factor in finding starting goaltenders, and something that he hasn't shown the ability to do at age 26.

Whoever starts is whoever the guy that knows them best thinks is better. Last year, that was most often Roberto Luongo, and this year, that seems to be the case as well.
Using the royal we in your post is a non starter.

Also, your posts never lead to anything productive. They tend to jump from one negative concept to the next.

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02-02-2013, 06:41 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Using the royal we in your post is a non starter.

Also, your posts never lead to anything productive. They tend to jump from one negative concept to the next.
WE all appreciate your valuable contribution & insight relative to this thread's topic in this post... not.

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02-02-2013, 06:41 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Both goalies are younger and have had less time to prove themselves. By the time they are 27 they both could be as good or better then Schneider. Also you can say the gap between them and Scheider is not enough for them to give up what Canucks fans think Schneider is worth.
Please post when that happens. Until then, comparing them is ineffective.

Hey, even Schneider could be as good as Schneider when he turns 27. We will have to wait until he does.

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02-02-2013, 06:42 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
WE all appreciate your valuable contribution & insight relative to this thread's topic in this post... not.
You have no ability to speak or in this case 'write' for anyone but yourself so again its not helpful.

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02-02-2013, 06:46 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Please post when that happens. Until then, comparing them is ineffective.

Hey, even Schneider could be as good as Schneider when he turns 27. We will have to wait until he does.
So far this season it doesn't look good for Schneider to be as good at 27 as he was at 26.

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02-02-2013, 06:49 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
So far this season it doesn't look good for Schneider to be as good at 27 as he was at 26.
Schneider is still 26, though. It's funny how Luongo is always "34" and Schneider is always "27" when discussing their values.

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02-02-2013, 06:50 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post


for a $4m backup goaltender??? This after finding a way to magically rid themselves of Bryzgalov's contract.
Can we stop referring to Schneider as a "backup goalie"? It makes people look like they have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to hockey.....

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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
Good god. How much value do you think a back up goalie has? He wouldn't get you one of the players you've listed let alone any package of them.
If Schneider is a backup goalie, then doesn't that make Gardiner an AHL caliber defencemen?

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02-02-2013, 06:52 PM
  #189
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RE Scheider/Luongo

When talking about "why they haven't been traded yet", keep in mind there are no major holes/deficiencies on this roster (maybe 3C could use an upgrade...but its not a huge issue atm).

If its going to be a deal involving prospect/draft picks don't you think MG is likely to wait until the offseason?

And lets be honest, how many teams are going to have the assets to offer a 1-1 type deal without creating a new hole on their roster?

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02-02-2013, 06:58 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Can we stop referring to Schneider as a "backup goalie"? It makes people look like they have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to hockey.....
We can stop referring to Schneider as a backup goaltender when / if he becomes his team's #1 goaltender.

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02-02-2013, 07:01 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
We can stop referring to Schneider as a backup goaltender when / if he becomes his team's #1 goaltender.
So should Jake Gardiner be called an AHL caliber player until he is called up?

Should Malkin be a 2nd line center until he usurps Crosbys position?

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02-02-2013, 07:03 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post

Whoever starts is whoever the guy that knows them best thinks is better. Last year, that was most often Roberto Luongo, and this year, that seems to be the case as well.
Its kinda tricky when the other guy lets in 3 goals in 3 games.

Not sure how thats indicative of Cory Schneiders ability?

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02-02-2013, 07:04 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Can we stop referring to Schneider as a "backup goalie"? It makes people look like they have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to hockey.....



If Schneider is a backup goalie, then doesn't that make Gardiner an AHL caliber defencemen?
A poven starter in the NHL is someone that plays 40 plus games in a season. A lot of teams prefer their starter to play 55-65 games in a season until he plays that many games in a single season he is not a proven NHL starter. Schneider went into this season as the starter but it seems like he may end the season in a backup role again or a goalie tandem with each goalie playing close to equal time.

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02-02-2013, 07:11 PM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post

If AV was more confident in Schneider than Luongo, he would've played him in more games than he did Luongo. Just because you can pick and choose a couple of games that Schneider played against good teams, doesn't mean he faced the stronger subset of the opposition, on average.
Keep in mind this is a guy who many consider to be a top-3/top-5 goalie in the world.

Even if Schneider at this point is a top-10 goalie... the math is pretty simple.

Both these guys are good, and both of these guys can play lights out for certain streaks (like Luongo now).


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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
This is last I can say about it since I'm gearing up for Bruins at Leafs tonight.

(a) I never said on average he's played more tough opponents then Luongo but he has definitely faced top teams with regularity and looked excellent.

(b) Look no further then the playoffs last year. You know the thing that caused all the controversy and Luongo asking to be traded? Yeah that was AV picking CS for the biggest games of the year. And he started this season instead of Luongo. He has plenty of faith in him.

You can't have it both ways, (1ab) whoever starts is worth the most and the backup plays the weaker teams thus having lower value for both Roberto Luongo or Cory Schneider.

They happen to have two very good goaltenders who get played on hot streaks, hunches, whatever against the best of the best regardless.
After reading your last few posts, I gotta give you props on your posts.
- Nice, objective approach to it.
- Not trashing players/posters.

I find myself agreeing with 90% of what you say, and I can see where your coming from on the other 10%. Nice to see on hf!

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02-02-2013, 07:14 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
The flaw in your argument is that NHL GMs don't really care what analysts think. He's 26 and he isn't a starter. If you think that doesn't affect his trade value in the market you are wrong. You'll get what Varlamov got. Don't expect too much more than that.
No, they care about statistics, style and actually have scoots who watch players and make evaluations based on what was witnessed. Care to venture a guess what is being said about Schneider? Those analysts get their feedback from somewhere. Washington was gambling on the first they received being an easy lottery and still managed to net Forsberg. Add to him and I'd be content.

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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Not at all.

The excuse for why Schneider doesn't have experience in a #1 role is irrelevant. The fact is, a team that trades for him (at $4m) is going to be a team that views him as the #1, or at the very least, the front half of a tandem... and he has very little experience / success in that role. Just because Luongo is infront of him, doesn't mean he's automatically capable of making the backup-to-#1 jump... and until he does that, teams are going to value him with that questionmark.

With Halak/Varlamov, you had a couple of substantially younger guys, a smaller contract (in Varlamov's case), and two players who had stolen the starting job for prolonged stretches of time. Bobrovsky is an even better example, as he took the reigns for Philly the previous season, playing 54 games straight out of Russia and putting up an excellent .915 / 2.59. That's something that Cory Schneider has never even come close to doing.

Schneider's taken the reigns for short stretches, but over the life of his ~70 game 4 1/2 year NHL career, he's predominantly been a backup.

Schneider is almost definitely the best backup goalie in the league, although calling him young at this point is starting to become a little bit of a stretch.
And as always, your arguments rely on conveniences and disregard context. Schneider is not getting seated by some inferior nobody having explosive luck. He is getting outperformed by a top five goaltender and future hall of famer. Were he playing for the Rangers, his situation would be no different. Goaltenders of Luongo's caliber are difficult to dethrone with any degree of consistency. They are considered elite for a reason.

Instead Schneider would up arguably the best numbers a goaltender playing the relief role every has. 54 games verse 30 is not astronomical, and is was not as though Schneider was sheltered. He played meaningful games and shutdown elite teams. These are things GMs consider. Not whether he can trump Luongo.

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02-02-2013, 07:15 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
So should Jake Gardiner be called an AHL caliber player until he is called up?

Should Malkin be a 2nd line center until he usurps Crosbys position?
Gardiner played 75 NHL games last season which pretty much means he played in almost every game the team had except 7. Malkin plays pretty close to equal the amount of ice time Crosby does per game and scores at a rate that makes him a #1 center.

Schneider has not played the majority of games for him to to be called the starter. And comparing goalies to skaters just makes no sense. As skaters can play at the same time while only 1 goalie can play at a time. I have already given what most teams expect out of a starting goalie and Schneider as yet to prove he is a starting goalie.

Yes if Luongo was not on the team Schneider would be the starter. But we have yet to see him perform as the #1 guy with no one to fall back on. Playing goalie is just as much mental as it is physical. Its the hardest position in the league to project how a player will do until they are out into the position. There have been many backups that have put up good stats and played well as a backup but never could stick as a starter in the NHL.

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02-02-2013, 07:27 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
We can stop referring to Schneider as a backup goaltender when / if he becomes his team's #1 goaltender.
I find this sort of thing confusing when people we're devaluing Luongo because he was a "backup" goaltender before the season started.

"Why would we trade a top prospect for a backup goalie lol?"

Now that Luongo is playing well and people are toying with Schnieder being expendable:

"Why would we trade a top prospect for a backup goalie lol?"

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02-02-2013, 07:59 PM
  #198
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I find this sort of thing confusing when people we're devaluing Luongo because he was a "backup" goaltender before the season started.

"Why would we trade a top prospect for a backup goalie lol?"

Now that Luongo is playing well and people are toying with Schnieder being expendable:

"Why would we trade a top prospect for a backup goalie lol?"
I really can't believe anyone called luongo a backup as he's proven to be a starter for a long time his contract length is What scares people.

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02-02-2013, 08:03 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
I really can't believe anyone called luongo a backup as he's proven to be a starter for a long time his contract length is What scares people.
Many used the "lost his job to Schnieder so he must be washed up" excuse to make Canuck fans think that he's only worth Komisarek + Connolly.

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02-02-2013, 08:28 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
I really can't believe anyone called luongo a backup as he's proven to be a starter for a long time his contract length is What scares people.
You can't believe anyone on hfboards was calling Luongo a backup?


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