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National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Is Joe Thornton the most underrated current NHL player career wise?

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Old
02-02-2013, 08:44 PM
  #101
Sky04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJenga View Post
You're obviously trying to bash Joe strong here. Crosby entered the league 9 years after Joe... Henrik 3 years. The comparison, while not ideal, is much much better than what you took to the extreme.
how is that bashing Joe Thornton at all? You're obviously overrating him if you don't think him and Henrik Sedin's abilities aren't close.

In terms of playmaking ability, the top 3 in the league are extremely close, Crosby, Sedin and Thornton.

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02-02-2013, 08:44 PM
  #102
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Most underrated is a pretty hard title to claim for anyone. You're asking to measure something that is inherently covered up. You'd have similar results for asking who's the best crime lord. You won't know, because whoever's actually the best at it will have it covered up behind them. (Hint: The answer is Keyser Soze)

That said, Thornton is absolutely underrated. Sometimes it seems like the only thing people see when they look at him is his lack of a Cup ring. Anyone who doesn't want Thornton on their team is out to lunch, except for maybe Penguins fans.

If the Sharks end up winning it all this year, I'll be happy for Thornton more than anyone else on that squad. Not that I have anything against the Sharks.


Last edited by Sevanston: 02-02-2013 at 08:57 PM.
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02-02-2013, 09:31 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by CBJenga View Post
In the last three years, Henrik has started 58, 72, and 79% of his shifts in the offensive zone. Thornton on the other hand, 50, 52, 50%. If you have that large a difference in zone-starts, it's not something you can really compare.

Does Henrik have multiple 100+ point seasons? Does he have back to back 90 assist seasons? Does he have a season where he had more primary assists than the next leading assist-man had total assists? No.

It's arguable that in the last three seasons Henrik can be compared to Thornton. But over their career, Jumbo is by far and away the better playmaker. Period. Literally every possible metric you can find would support that.
We can all cherry pick stats. Thornton has had more ice time and had Marleau and Heatley as line mates at one point.

I don't care about 100 point seasons, I was simply remarking that Sedin is at least as good of a playmaker as Thornton is right now. Let's leave the career discussions until both are over; otherwise ill bring Gretzky and Lemieux into the mix.

For the record, I think Thornton is a great player. However, if you think Sedin is below his level in playmaking ability, you're either biased beyond belief or haven't watched Sedin play. Put the stats away and watch both of them play. They're both phenomenal playmakers.

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02-02-2013, 09:39 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJenga View Post
You're obviously trying to bash Joe strong here. Crosby entered the league 9 years after Joe... Henrik 3 years. The comparison, while not ideal, is much much better than what you took to the extreme.
and henrik is only 1 year younger then thornton, so it is not like henrik will magically make up the lost ground he has by playing the same amount of time as thornton.

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02-02-2013, 09:43 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Lindt View Post
We can all cherry pick stats. Thornton has had more ice time and had Marleau and Heatley as line mates at one point.

I don't care about 100 point seasons, I was simply remarking that Sedin is at least as good of a playmaker as Thornton is right now. Let's leave the career discussions until both are over; otherwise ill bring Gretzky and Lemieux into the mix.

For the record, I think Thornton is a great player. However, if you think Sedin is below his level in playmaking ability, you're either biased beyond belief or haven't watched Sedin play. Put the stats away and watch both of them play. They're both phenomenal playmakers.
Thornton also has never had a twin who has played with him all his life and knows exactly what he is going to do at any time. Then you also add in the fact that Thornton turned a guy like Cheechoo into a Rocket Richard winner. Also, this thread is about careers, if we are basing it off that, Sedin is blown out of the water in that sense. Otherwise, their playmaking skill is much closer, but Thornton is still a better playmaker.

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02-02-2013, 09:46 PM
  #106
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Nope.

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02-02-2013, 09:47 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJenga View Post
In the last three years, Henrik has started 58, 72, and 79% of his shifts in the offensive zone. Thornton on the other hand, 50, 52, 50%. If you have that large a difference in zone-starts, it's not something you can really compare.

Does Henrik have multiple 100+ point seasons? Does he have back to back 90 assist seasons? Does he have a season where he had more primary assists than the next leading assist-man had total assists? No.

It's arguable that in the last three seasons Henrik can be compared to Thornton. But over their career, Jumbo is by far and away the better playmaker. Period. Literally every possible metric you can find would support that.
I'd use those arguments for Thornton being a better offensive player than Sedin (goes against the other teams' top lines vs. 3rd liners, less than 50% o-zone stars vs 80%). However, judging them on pure playmaking, I'd say Sedin and Thornton are very close.

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02-02-2013, 10:39 PM
  #108
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I am the original poster of this thread.

As for the Thornton VS Sedin debate I was just saying how good of a career that Thornton has had. I had not mentioned that he has 14 points in 7 games this year. This was not a thread saying how Joe Thornton is on fire this year.

What I meant by saying that Thornton is under rated would be this; Using stats we can prove that he has been and still is one of the elite players in the NHL. When people think of the elite players in the NHL these guys come to mind: Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Ovechkin, Sedin, Sedin, Giroux. You never hear Thornton's name in that list but maybe it just does belong.

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02-02-2013, 11:22 PM
  #109
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Why does it seem every thread on the main boards gets sidetracked to something about Vancouver?

As for why, in national media, Thornton is under rated. Most likely because he plays for SJ, they love to hate SJ and give no credit to them for anything.

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02-02-2013, 11:50 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solmors View Post
Why does it seem every thread on the main boards gets sidetracked to something about Vancouver?

As for why, in national media, Thornton is under rated. Most likely because he plays for SJ, they love to hate SJ and give no credit to them for anything.
Their fans tend to be insecure imo. Anyways Jumbo's a future HOFer-even if his career ends tomorrow. He was absolutely dominant after being traded to the Sharks. They were struggling-and then they became contenders with that move. I mean seriously-Jumbo's the main reason why that whole franchise has become very good after they traded for him. As for choking in the playoffs-I think some people haven't been paying attention to Jumbo over the past 5-6 years (which adds to him being underrated).

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02-03-2013, 12:29 AM
  #111
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I think he is right up there with Datsyuk as far as passing is concerned. I think he could probably stand to shoot a little more though.

That being said, I think his poor playoff performances in the past give him a bad reputation. I don't care how underwhelming he performs in the playoffs, anytime the Wings played the Sharks I was always a little weary of Thornton, and thats a compliment. I think he is definitely up there, that's for sure.

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02-03-2013, 01:48 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindt View Post
H. Sedin says hello. Hard to say who's a better playmaker, but they're definitely "close"

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WAj--5eM630
The difference with Thornton is he does this all the time while being doubleteamed. This play is a quick skill play that obviously catches the defense. Watching Henrik, his play is not particularly impressive to a person who has the luck of watching Thornton on a regular basis. Thornton routinely makes blind between-the-legs passes while being checked by multiple defenders. He is a large man who is capable of playing very physically and dominating the puck, which is why he is able to be used as a shutdown center while also being the top playmaker.

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02-03-2013, 02:18 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solmors View Post
As for why, in national media, Thornton is under rated. Most likely because he plays for SJ, they love to hate SJ and give no credit to them for anything.
You had the first part right, he plays for a west coast(U.S.) team and therefore will not get as much attention. But saying they love to hate San Jose is all in your head, I'd say every expert has picked the Sharks to win the cup at least once in the past five years. They no longer give them credit for division or conference titles because they know that means nothing to the Sharks anymore, the only thing that matters to a team of the their caliber is a cup win.

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02-03-2013, 02:32 AM
  #114
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It's amazing the consistent success the Sharks have had the past couple of years. Make the playoffs every year, have a solid run but fall short. DOn't get me wrong, the point is to go far. However I don't know of any other team with the exception of maybe Detroit or possibly Pittsburgh that's been as consistent. Joey T has been that team for the entire time.

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02-03-2013, 03:14 AM
  #115
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I do not think Big Joe is underrated by true hockey fans. Envious ones and Thornton haters... yes - they do underrate him.
I don't think you need to win a Cup to be considered for the HOF. If Ray Bourque didn't win the Cup would you say he didn't deserve to be in the HOF???
The stigma that Joe has had a hard time shaking is his inability to elevate or even play to his normal standards in the playoffs and he has never been able to lead his team (a very good one) to the SC Finals.
He has been and is still such a dominating force and incredible player, even if it is only during his 1000+ NHL games, that he does deserve to be in. He may not be a first ballot elected member, unless he has some playoff success, but he will be in the HOF someday.

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02-03-2013, 03:18 AM
  #116
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If you don't know who Thornton is, you've been living under a rock. Underrated? Nope. I don't think that's possible for a guy who puts up as many points as he does.

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02-03-2013, 04:22 AM
  #117
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Underrated? No.. .

He used to be one of the most praised players on these boards for years, until he had some pedestrian numbers and lackluster playoff performances the past couple. But before that, there were nearly daily threads on him and how he was possibly one of the best passers of all times...

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02-03-2013, 05:07 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stovepipe Cup View Post
until he had some pedestrian numbers and lackluster playoff performances the past couple.
Neither of these things happened, ironically. He continues to put up elite numbers and his last several playoffs have been his best.

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02-03-2013, 03:21 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stovepipe Cup View Post
Underrated? No.. .

He used to be one of the most praised players on these boards for years, until he had some pedestrian numbers and lackluster playoff performances the past couple. But before that, there were nearly daily threads on him and how he was possibly one of the best passers of all times...
5 points in 5 games last year
17 points in 18 games the year before
12 points in 15 games the year before that.

This is why this kind of thread exists.... People talk with such authority about terrible joe's numbers are..... and yet, reality proves them wrong time and time again.

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02-03-2013, 03:34 PM
  #120
The Dangley One
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Peyton manning of the NHL

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02-03-2013, 03:42 PM
  #121
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He himself isn't terribly underrated, but his "demise" in the playoffs and the team "choking" are greatly exaggerated and incorrect.

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02-03-2013, 03:53 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
He himself isn't terribly underrated, but his "demise" in the playoffs and the team "choking" are greatly exaggerated and incorrect.
San Jose is routinely stacked yet zero cups. Nuff said

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02-03-2013, 04:48 PM
  #123
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San Jose is routinely stacked yet zero cups. Nuff said
Not really but nice of you to think so.

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02-03-2013, 09:28 PM
  #124
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The dumb thing is, his playoff numbers aren't even remotely bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominate Kesler View Post
Henrik Sedin has outproduced Thornton the last couple of years, and is a better playmaker right now IMO.
Oh for crying out loud.

As a Canuck fan, the complaints people have about Canuck fans are absolutely true.


Last edited by Shareefruck: 02-03-2013 at 09:34 PM.
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Old
02-03-2013, 09:31 PM
  #125
The Dangley One
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Not really but nice of you to think so.
Poor joe Thornton. If he only had the talent around him Amiriteoramirite?

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