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Views on the Toronto Maple Leafs (Mod: the hockey team)

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Old
02-09-2013, 11:27 PM
  #326
Wilma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackJ View Post
Leafs mishandled Schenn on all levels:

Starting at 18 instead of 21 or 22
Playing for a terrible coach
"Run and gun" type system

I'm confident this trade will end up being even.
Strongly disagree - there was no system to speak of. To suggest it was run and gun is generous!

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02-09-2013, 11:29 PM
  #327
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Strongly disagree - there was no system to speak of. To suggest it was run and gun is generous!
True, but if you had to slot it, the "run and gun" comes closest to matching.

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Old
02-09-2013, 11:33 PM
  #328
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I remember in the thread about the Leafs blowing-it-up, people claimed Kessel wasn't a "Core" piece to build with

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Old
02-09-2013, 11:37 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I remember in the thread about the Leafs blowing-it-up, people claimed Kessel wasn't a "Core" piece to build with
Even in Toronto leading up to this game, the media were discussing what the return would be for Phil Kessel

Only in Toronto would we discuss trading our top scorer in the midst of a 3-game winning streak firmly entrenched in the playoff race.


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02-09-2013, 11:38 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
Even in Toronto leading up to this game, the media were discussing what the return would be for Phil Kessel

Only in Toronto would we discuss trading our top scorer in the midst of a 3-game winning streak firmly entrenched in the playoff race.

Kessel is a franchise winger. I hope they give him a huge 8 year extension once they get the chance.

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02-09-2013, 11:40 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I agree he was mishandled in some ways. Still not as much as Kadri though..
With Kadri, I feel the mishandled portion of his development was during the callups and who Wilson lined him up with. Keeping him in the minors for over 100 games I have no issue with. Learning how to play a proper two way game and building size (slowly) doesn't happen overnight.

If anything I view Kadris overall development as a success story especially compared to what he was when we drafted him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
In the end, I hope Schenn does well in Philly. All I care about is the Leafs got a very good young forward drafted second overall for a guy in Schenn who really doesn't have a lot of talent.
In terms of pure talent of course we came out on top but if we view the trade as a key piece for either team I believe it's even.

With the current glut of defenceman I hope to see more of these types of trades over the next year.

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Old
02-09-2013, 11:48 PM
  #332
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FWIW, Leafs were on same pace quarter way through last season as they are right now.

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02-09-2013, 11:51 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Hindsight is 20/20.

In his first season in the NHL, Luke was looking like a good #2 defenseman. However, he stumbled in his 2nd, 3rd and 4th seasons and didn't look nearly as good as he was initially. He's apparently playing very well now in Philly, though.
I hope he does well.
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
The Leafs are clearly a good young team with nice upside going forward. The comments of them having no good young players makes me laugh.
They're not clearly a good young team man.

And I don't remember too many people saying that they don't have good young players.
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I remember in the thread about the Leafs blowing-it-up, people claimed Kessel wasn't a "Core" piece to build with
They should blow it up.

As for Kessel, he's been great. I don't think he's the cornerstone you build around but he could certainly be part of the future there. I think the stigma of the trade isn't great for him though and I can understand why folks would suggest dealing him. It would have to be a huge return though.
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
FWIW, Leafs were on same pace quarter way through last season as they are right now.
Well on the plus side it's only half a season this time so...

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02-09-2013, 11:54 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
FWIW, Leafs were on same pace quarter way through last season as they are right now.
Thank god it's a 48 game season then

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02-09-2013, 11:55 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I hope he does well.

They're not clearly a good young team man.

And I don't remember too many people saying that they don't have good young players.

They should blow it up.

As for Kessel, he's been great. I don't think he's the cornerstone you build around but he could certainly be part of the future there. I think the stigma of the trade isn't great for him though and I can understand why folks would suggest dealing him. It would have to be a huge return though.

Well on the plus side it's only half a season this time so...
a 7-5 team with the second youngest roster should blow it up? Really?

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02-10-2013, 12:04 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
a 7-5 team with the second youngest roster should blow it up? Really?
If they're serious about going after a cup? Yes.

It's not a roller coaster ride man and you don't change your mind because of a two or three game win streak. And as I said above, it's about winning cups not 8th place. If the Leafs are serious about building towards a cup they should blow it up.

I don't expect it to happen, but that's what they should do.

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02-10-2013, 12:06 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I agree he was mishandled in some ways. Still not as much as Kadri though.

In the end, I hope Schenn does well in Philly. All I care about is the Leafs got a very good young forward drafted second overall for a guy in Schenn who really doesn't have a lot of talent.
Just a quick glance at your posting history:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper
Schenn, like all Leaf players, was very underrated on these boards.

Now that he's away from the Leafs, all of you can appreciate him more.

Poor, JVR, he's now a horrible hockey player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper
Many good #2 D-Men on the first pairing don't score a lot of points.

Besides, Schenn's offensive production looked not bad at all last season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper
Of course he will be (top pairing defensemen). Schenn became very underrated on these boards. in 10-11' he was the Leafs best D-Man and did look like he could be a solid #2 guy. He leads all D-Men in hits the last two years and is still only 22. He's a good fit in Philly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper
(Prediction) Schenn becomes a dominant defensive D-Man and the Leafs best blueliner next season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper
There's this stigma that JVR is worth so much because he was selected 2nd overall. His career high is 40 points. That's it.

No, Schenn isn't worth JVR and a first for him, but Schenn is definitely equal value as JVR is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper
There's a perception because JVR was picked second overall, he's some stud forward. His career high is 40 points. That's it.

He is not worth anymore than Luke Schenn.
Ahem. 10 games changed your mind?

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:08 AM
  #338
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die hard fan here... we have 4 wins against Montreal and Washington. 1 against Winnipeg. Toronto needs to prove them self vs the upper echelon teams. We seem to do well against the Pens but get run over by Boston and philly. If we go 0-4 against the bruins and 0-3 against the Flyers it could get ugly. All comes down defensive first hockey and goaltending. This team could be a threat for the playoffs but so is every team in the east in this shortened season. Future does look quite promising though.
Also a convincing win against Pittsburgh. A win against a Buffalo team, likely two if anyone but Miller plays in net for them. Lost 1-0 against the Bruins who have recently beat down on us. Not to mention we played a solid first 40 minutes against NYR.

I see your point, but there are reasons to start getting excited about the team.

I will also mention Montreal is 6-2-1 this year against the other teams in the east so far. They have beaten easier teams, but they aren't an easy win by any means. They are only 1 point behind us in the standings with a game in hand.

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:09 AM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If they're serious about going after a cup? Yes.

It's not a roller coaster ride man and you don't change your mind because of a two or three game win streak. And as I said above, it's about winning cups not 8th place. If the Leafs are serious about building towards a cup they should blow it up.

I don't expect it to happen, but that's what they should do.
I think you might have bigger worries about your "team" son

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:11 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Aqualung View Post
Just a quick glance at your posting history:








Ahem. 10 games changed your mind?
Please show where I've knocked Schenn in this thread. Saying he doesn't have a lot of talent doesn't mean I'm calling him crap. He's a defesive D-Man. JVR is clearly more talented.

I've gone record as saying both teams can benefit from this trade. In fact, some of those posts you've quoted it's important to note, were made AFTER his trade to Phily.

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02-10-2013, 12:11 AM
  #341
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Too many Leaf threads tonight... they still suck, though.

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:11 AM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If they're serious about going after a cup? Yes.

It's not a roller coaster ride man and you don't change your mind because of a two or three game win streak. And as I said above, it's about winning cups not 8th place. If the Leafs are serious about building towards a cup they should blow it up.

I don't expect it to happen, but that's what they should do.
80% of the NHL should blow it up tbh

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:12 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If they're serious about going after a cup? Yes.

It's not a roller coaster ride man and you don't change your mind because of a two or three game win streak. And as I said above, it's about winning cups not 8th place. If the Leafs are serious about building towards a cup they should blow it up.

I don't expect it to happen, but that's what they should do.
Tanking doesn't work as often as you think.

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:12 AM
  #344
Aqualung
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Please show where I've knocked Schenn in this thread. Saying he doesn't have a lot of talent doesn't mean I'm calling him crap. He's a defesive D-Man. JVR is clearly more talented.

I've gone record as saying both teams can benefit from this trade. In fact, some of those posts you've quoted it's important to note, were made AFTER his trade to Phily.
Having the capability to play a physical shutdown game is a talent. You said so yourself. Being able to be a top pairing defensemen means you have talent.

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:14 AM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Aqualung View Post
Having the capability to play a physical shutdown game is a talent. You said so yourself.
This can be a win-win trade. Again, saying JVR has more talent than Schenn isn't saying Philly are the big losers of this trade.

Schenn can be a very good top-pairing #2 D-Man.

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:15 AM
  #346
Lafleurs Guy
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I think you might have bigger worries about your "team" son
I've argued for my own team to rebuild for years bub.

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:16 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Kessel is a franchise winger. I hope they give him a huge 8 year extension once they get the chance.
Kessel is a one-dimensional softie that you have to be very desperate to build around. I hope you give him a huge 8 year extension.

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:17 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I've argued for my own team to rebuild for years bub.
Should they tank like Washington, Florida, Columbus or the Islanders have?

It's tiresome seeing people only use Pittsburgh and Chicago as examples of it working.

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:17 AM
  #349
Lafleurs Guy
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Tanking doesn't work as often as you think.
They don't have to "tank" man. You deal vets for prospects and picks and you play your kids. If you sink in the standings you don't go for quick fixes. If you actually make the playoffs so much the better.

Intentionally "tanking" doesn't exist. "Rebuilding" does and it makes a lot of sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Should they tank like Washington, Florida, Columbus or the Islanders have?

It's tiresome seeing people only use Pittsburgh and Chicago as examples of it working.
People always bring up the Islanders and Leafs as examples of 'tanking' not working. What they ignore of course is how those clubs 'tanked.' Not only did they come in last often but combined they gave away picks and prospects that turned into: Luongo (incredibly both teams dealt him as a prospect), Bertuzzi, Spezza, Seguin, Chara, Hamilton, Couture, Redden, Jokinen and a whole slew of others. Hell, Milbury basically gave away a dynasty team that could STILL be winning cups today.

Tanking is not the same as rebuilding.

Columbus has failed no doubt. But they haven't drafted high as often as you might think and they've also been totally stupid with their prospects. They ruined Steve Mason by spoiling him and taking his side against Ken Hitchcock. Once that happens the dye is cast. But even there even the Columbus Blue Jackets managed to draft a Richard winner. The Leafs haven't had one of those since... Gaye Stewart in 1946.

And there's no reason to include Washington as a failure. First, as I pointed out they got super shafted in 2005 with the pick. That shouldn't have happened. Secondly, they assembled a great team. One that was a contender and should STILL be a contender. Letting Semin go, getting Ribeiro, not getting a goalie who could do the job... those are problems that happened despite the rebuild not because of it.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 02-10-2013 at 12:28 AM.
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02-10-2013, 12:17 AM
  #350
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Too many Leaf threads tonight... they still suck, though.
For the record, not 1 leafs made those threads. Hab fans created them. We have no reason to be sour over tonights events.

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