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Views on the Toronto Maple Leafs (Mod: the hockey team)

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Old
02-03-2013, 08:45 AM
  #126
RealisticLeaf55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
The media attack on McCabe was laughable and lowered his value and screwed the Leafs.

Forgotten a lot is the fact Mccabe finished 4th in Norris voting in 2004', got over 50 points and was +23 while logging huge minutes on a contender.
Bryan was a guy that became a victim of "Leafs Media" another thing people forget is how not only Mccabe but Tucker, Sundin, Domi, and Kaberle all dealt with the constant trade rumours made up by the Sun and Star and how every time a bad play was made, three articles would be made singling each and every one of them out, yet all of these guys fought to stay on this team till the bitter end. The fans had nothing to do with throwing out our stars, it was impatience of MLSE and the media. If fans really had a say in anything when it comes to the NHL buisness, there would have never been a lockout. Fans have little power. Anywho, I am ranting at this point. At the end of the day no matter how any fan bases sees us we should tip our hats and just watch and wait. I want to see this team just bottom out and keep stocking the cupboards, because sooner or later, those "contender teams" will bottom out as well and history will repeat itself.

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Old
02-03-2013, 09:16 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
The Bruins are a very beatable team, probably the worst Bruins team since before their cup. They don't worry me anymore.
The Bruins are much, much better than their cup winning team was (with the possible exception of not having Thomas who was playing like a God back then) and they will be even better next year and the year after that. Great young team that should only get better with time.

They should scare you because they are set up to be one of the best teams in the East for a long, long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaby23 View Post
They need Kessel to win and right now he's invisible. funny how 1 guy can **** up your team.
He's really not been invisible. He's actually played very good hockey and has deserved better stats than what he's got. I feel really bad for the guy because he should have four or five goals at least this season.
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Originally Posted by tp71 View Post
I think the poster knows that. It doesn't really matter what the Sharks did with the picks. The Leafs aren't the Sharks. We traded our picks for Toskala and more. The Blues ended up with the Leafs first and drafted Eller.

What the Sharks did with the Blues pick doesn't really matter as there is no telling the Leafs would have gotten it. At the end of the day, it's the Leafs get Toskala or the Leafs get Eller.
Point is that the Leafs used those two picks to get Toskala and Bell. Those same two picks were used to get Logan Couture.

We can debate where they would've finished or whatever but it underscores that the whole philosophy was wrong. You don't trade picks for quick fixes unless you're a contender. You don't deal picks to go for 8th place and that's what the Leafs have done throughout the years and it's really, really hurt them. If they had just accepted that they weren't all that good long ago and traded FOR picks instead of dealing them away they'd have been much better off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
The media attack on McCabe was laughable and lowered his value and screwed the Leafs.

Forgotten a lot is the fact Mccabe finished 4th in Norris voting in 2004', got over 50 points and was +23 while logging huge minutes on a contender.
McCabe was a flat out terrible defensively. He had a big shot on the power play and Thomas Kaberle made him look a lot better than he was. I'll also give him props for being physical but apart from that he was terrible defensively. That was not media driven and that Norris vote was an absolute joke and if anthing hurt the credibility of the folks who vote on that award.
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Originally Posted by RealisticLeaf55 View Post
Bryan was a guy that became a victim of "Leafs Media"...
Bryan was a victim of his own defensive deficiencies. Yeah the media scrutiny is higher in big hockey markets but McCabe sucked in his own end. As for his trade value... If I were a GM I'd be hard pressed to have wanted this guy on my team. There are better options available that a guy with a cannon who can't play D.

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Old
02-03-2013, 09:26 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The Bruins are much, much better than their cup winning team was (with the possible exception of not having Thomas who was playing like a God back then) and they will be even better next year and the year after that. Great young team that should only get better with time.

They should scare you because they are set up to be one of the best teams in the East for a long, long time.

He's really not been invisible. He's actually played very good hockey and has deserved better stats than what he's got. I feel really bad for the guy because he should have four or five goals at least this season.

Point is that the Leafs used those two picks to get Toskala and Bell. Those same two picks were used to get Logan Couture.

We can debate where they would've finished or whatever but it underscores that the whole philosophy was wrong. You don't trade picks for quick fixes unless you're a contender. You don't deal picks to go for 8th place and that's what the Leafs have done throughout the years and it's really, really hurt them. If they had just accepted that they weren't all that good long ago and traded FOR picks instead of dealing them away they'd have been much better off.

McCabe was a flat out terrible defensively. He had a big shot on the power play and Thomas Kaberle made him look a lot better than he was. I'll also give him props for being physical but apart from that he was terrible defensively. That was not media driven and that Norris vote was an absolute joke and if anthing hurt the credibility of the folks who vote on that award.

Bryan was a victim of his own defensive deficiencies. Yeah the media scrutiny is higher in big hockey markets but McCabe sucked in his own end. As for his trade value... If I were a GM I'd be hard pressed to have wanted this guy on my team. There are better options available that a guy with a cannon who can't play D.
Again, I think all your opinions on McCabe's defense is because of where he played and the Toronto media. We never heard ANYTHING about his "Blunders" on any other team.

Ask Brian Leetch if he thinks McCabe was a joke defensively. Leetch said it was his best defense partner ever.

And the stuff about his contract was funny too. On the same wesk McCabe got his deal, Ed Jovanovski got more money from Phoenix with worse numbers in every category, yet you never heard About Ed's contract because it was in Phoenix.

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Old
02-03-2013, 09:44 AM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Again, I think all your opinions on McCabe's defense is because of where he played and the Toronto media. We never heard ANYTHING about his "Blunders" on any other team.

Ask Brian Leetch if he thinks McCabe was a joke defensively. Leetch said it was his best defense partner ever.

And the stuff about his contract was funny too. On the same wesk McCabe got his deal, Ed Jovanovski got more money from Phoenix with worse numbers in every category, yet you never heard About Ed's contract because it was in Phoenix.
Who cares what you heard about his other team?

I watched the guy play and his defense sucked. In Toronto pretty much everyone knew and accepted this. Making straw man arguments about not hearing reports on how he was playing in Florida does not change anything.

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02-03-2013, 09:45 AM
  #130
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Why was McCabe terrible defensively?

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02-03-2013, 09:47 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Who cares what you heard about his other team?

I watched the guy play and his defense sucked. In Toronto pretty much everyone knew and accepted this. Making straw man arguments about not hearing reports on how he was playing in Florida does not change anything.
Actually it does, because no one would think he was a joke defensively in most other markets.

His defensive play looked fine to me.

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02-03-2013, 09:54 AM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Actually it does, because no one would think he was a joke defensively in most other markets.

His defensive play looked fine to me.
As I said before; When Tomas Kaberle is your defensive partner, there will be few hits made and two offensive men out of position, leaving major room for the opposition. If McCabe had a defensemen like Salvador/Volchenkov/whomever we'd see a much better team. Can't count the amount of times Belfour had to play at his 110% best at all times.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:07 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Frank Stallone View Post
Why was McCabe terrible defensively?
These are the two first videos I found on Youtube. I'm sure there are more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp7iKFfo_0c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwJDeKBZuVk

You can sit there and say that this is a blooper real and every defenseman makes mistakes etc... But those kinds of things happened with him all the time. And blooper or not some of those plays just shouldn't happen with an NHL defenseman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Actually it does, because no one would think he was a joke defensively in most other markets.

His defensive play looked fine to me.
You weren't watching closely enough or you were only seeing what you wanted to.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:18 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
These are the two first videos I found on Youtube. I'm sure there are more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp7iKFfo_0c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwJDeKBZuVk

You can sit there and say that this is a blooper real and every defenseman makes mistakes etc... But those kinds of things happened with him all the time. And blooper or not some of those plays just shouldn't happen with an NHL defenseman.

You weren't watching closely enough or you were only seeing what you wanted to.
No I was watching closely, I just didn't listen to the idiot media underrating him.

Again, look at his numbers. They speak for themselves.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:24 AM
  #135
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The NHL needs the Leafs and Habs to be dominant in the East. The McJunior markets have had their time. O6 teams should be the only dominant force.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:28 AM
  #136
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Good young team, scary speed, have some grit in there too and finally look to have steady goaltending. Kessel is probably going to break his goalless streak against us, he always seems to pop two to three past Andy.

They are definitely on the rise but could use a little size up front on their top lines against teams like Boston and Philly.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:31 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
No I was watching closely, I just didn't listen to the idiot media underrating him.
You keep trying to change it to the media. The media only reaffirm what was there, a guy who can't play defense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Again, look at his numbers. They speak for themselves.
What numbers should we look at? Goals against?

Nobody denies that he had a cannon from the point dude. But defensively he sucked, those videos that I posted were just the tip of the iceberg. They only show some of the flubs that resulted in goals. He mishandled the puck all the time and his goalies would bail him out.

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02-03-2013, 10:34 AM
  #138
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I lost it when I saw the mod edit. (The Hockey Team)

Good thing that's clarified, I came in here to post about a maple tree in toronto.

As for OP's question.
I view the leafs as another team. Not a playoff threat, sometimes they'll come at you and beat you. But most of the time easy 2 points.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:38 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You keep trying to change it to the media. The media only reaffirm what was there, a guy who can't play defense. [

What numbers should we look at? Goals against?

Nobody denies that he had a cannon from the point dude. But defensively he sucked, those videos that I posted were just the tip of the iceberg. They only show some of the flubs that resulted in goals. He mishandled the puck all the time and his goalies would bail him out.
He was +65 in his Leaf career. He was 4t in Norris voting in 04'. He had 3 straight 50+ point seasons. 5 of his 7 seasons as a Leaf he posted 40+ points.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:56 AM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadGator401 View Post
I lost it when I saw the mod edit. (The Hockey Team)

Good thing that's clarified, I came in here to post about a maple tree in toronto.

As for OP's question.
I view the leafs as another team. Not a playoff threat, sometimes they'll come at you and beat you. But most of the time easy 2 points.
Really? Your team. Both Dan and Sid said the Leafs always give them difficulty. We haven't beaten you, as much as we beat Detroit recently, but we had our fair share of wins against you. In fact just a week or so ago...

Most of the time an easy 2 pts. Not your team.

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Old
02-03-2013, 11:03 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
He was +65 in his Leaf career. He was 4t in Norris voting in 04'. He had 3 straight 50+ point seasons. 5 of his 7 seasons as a Leaf he posted 40+ points.
So what? Has nothing to do with his defense. You know this. Stop making strawman arguments. Nobody cares how many points he got because that's not what we're talking about.

And this is part of the Leafs problem... defending the team no matter what. If they'd taken a realistic view of the club long ago and recognized that they weren't good they wouldn't be in the situation that they are now.

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02-03-2013, 11:18 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
So what? Has nothing to do with his defense. You know this. Stop making strawman arguments. Nobody cares how many points he got because that's not what we're talking about.

And this is part of the Leafs problem... defending the team no matter what. If they'd taken a realistic view of the club long ago and recognized that they weren't good they wouldn't be in the situation that they are now.
If he was on another team no one would complain about him. The media criticism went way overboard. this is my opinion. It's not me blindly "Defending Him".

He played so well yet was considered garbage by everyone.

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02-03-2013, 11:22 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
If he was on another team no one would complain about him. The media criticism went way overboard. this is my opinion. It's not me blindly "Defending Him".

He played so well yet was considered garbage by everyone.
Offensively he played well for sure. Defensively he sucked.

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02-03-2013, 11:31 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
Really? Your team. Both Dan and Sid said the Leafs always give them difficulty. We haven't beaten you, as much as we beat Detroit recently, but we had our fair share of wins against you. In fact just a week or so ago...

Most of the time an easy 2 pts. Not your team.
Actually, I'm a fan of a few teams. This kinda answers OP's question. I could care less if the leafs beat the Pens. That's good for them, but does it really matter to me? No. The leafs haven't made the playoffs in years, they're no threat to anything, except to make a stupid trade to make me laugh.

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02-03-2013, 11:37 AM
  #145
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I actually think Kessel looks quite good so far. Sure, he's snakebitten, but he's getting a ton of chances, and sooner than later they will start to go in. I'm looking forward to the Leafs getting healthy. They actually do have some nice offensive depth when fully healthy:

van Riemsdyk - Bozak - Kessel
Kulemin - Grabovski - Lupul
MacArthur - Kadri - Frattin
McClement - Steckel - Komarov
Orr

Not bad...

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02-03-2013, 11:57 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
The NHL needs the Leafs and Habs to be dominant in the East. The McJunior markets have had their time. O6 teams should be the only dominant force.
I like the way you think, boy

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Old
02-03-2013, 12:11 PM
  #147
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I actually think Kessel looks quite good so far. Sure, he's snakebitten, but he's getting a ton of chances, and sooner than later they will start to go in.
In my opinion Kessel looks as dangerous as I've ever seen him.

He could have easily had 4 goals in the Caps game, and drilled a post against the Bruins, not to mention several great chances in earlier games.

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02-03-2013, 12:12 PM
  #148
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Question... why does the thread title say "(mod: the hockey team)"? Was someone actually douchy enough to pretend they didn't know the thread was about hockey?

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02-03-2013, 12:58 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by OneMoreAstronaut View Post
Question... why does the thread title say "(mod: the hockey team)"? Was someone actually douchy enough to pretend they didn't know the thread was about hockey?
I think that someone is insinuating that the Leafs are not a hockey team.

The Leafs admiitedly aren't contenders,but really aren't that far off as would appear.

Get a true #1 center(easier said than done)and a true #1 defenceman and you would have a different team.


The Leafs plus Getzlaf - probably 30 goals a season more.

Add a shutdown guy like Chara - probably 30 less goals a season.


Oh yeah,and get a real captain that can lead the team by example.

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02-03-2013, 01:01 PM
  #150
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I think the leafs need to get rid of kessel. Kessel is a great player but he is a sideshow and not the main core player to build the team around. The bruins were smart to trade him away and get seguin and hamilton and another pick for him. They bruins had the right idea because kessel is not a "core" player you build a team around but he is a talented player nonetheless

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