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Sakic+Forsberg vs. Crosby+Malkin

View Poll Results: Which combo is better (prime on prime)?
Sakic + Forsberg 135 52.53%
Crosby + Malkin 115 44.75%
both are equal 7 2.72%
Voters: 257. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:08 PM
  #51
Martyros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitchslap View Post
Crosby and Malkin are the top 2 players in the league. Pretty easy choice for me.
Considering the fact that Forberg and Sakic are retired, yes, they are the top 2 players in the league. Hard to play against retired players....

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:10 PM
  #52
MadLuke
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Loved sakic-forsberg much more but hard to go against Malkin/Crosby.

We will have to wait to correctly give one of them a better prime than Sakic because it was so long.

Can only speculate, but both Malkin and Crosby have a better start than both forsberg and sakic.

You have to go to the 00-01 era for Sakic to have a arguably better season than both Malkin Art ross.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:11 PM
  #53
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I'd take Crosby or Malkin over Sakic by a little bit, but Forsberg had that offense and he could give and take so much damage. Really sucked the mojo out of other teams. Gotta go with Forsberg + Sakic.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:23 PM
  #54
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It is probably a bias, but I would pick Sakic - Forsberg over Malkin and Crosby any day. You could always count on Sakic or Forsberg to step it up and get you that goal.

Also, Sakic is arguably the best or one of the best clutch players of all time. In an overtime playoff game, I'd take Sakic in a heartbeat.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:25 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeropotentate View Post
Also, Sakic is arguably the best or one of the best clutch players of all time. In an overtime playoff game, I'd take Sakic in a heartbeat.
Maurice richard
Guy Lafleur
Gretzky
Lemieux

are also very good choice.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:27 PM
  #56
ResilientBeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
Name two better players, currently playing.

You can't.
But we're not comparing them to the players they are playing against. Of course now Malkin and Crosby are probably the top two players of today, but if you had dropped them back during Forsberg and Sakic's heyday I'm sure you'd see them in the same spot top tenish.

Taking their entire games into account Forsberg Sakic pretty easily. Forsberg is incredible the offensive prowess and sheer force he exerted on the rink. When he wanted to score he was going to to score.
Crosby =/= Sakic
Forsberg> Malkin

Forsberg was top ten in points 5 times, 4 of which were top 5s
Sakic was top ten in points 10 times, 6 of which were top 5s

And they were both PPG until they retired until Crosby and Malkin retire and remain PPG every season until then, you could make a case for the Lemieux's pool boys, but until then Sakic and Forsberg.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:33 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResilientBeast View Post
But we're not comparing them to the players they are playing against. Of course now Malkin and Crosby are probably the top two players of today, but if you had dropped them back during Forsberg and Sakic's heyday I'm sure you'd see them in the same spot top tenish.

Taking their entire games into account Forsberg Sakic pretty easily. Forsberg is incredible the offensive prowess and sheer force he exerted on the rink. When he wanted to score he was going to to score.
Crosby =/= Sakic
Forsberg> Malkin

Forsberg was top ten in points 5 times, 4 of which were top 5s
Sakic was top ten in points 10 times, 6 of which were top 5s

And they were both PPG until they retired until Crosby and Malkin retire and remain PPG every season until then, you could make a case for the Lemieux's pool boys, but until then Sakic and Forsberg.
They are well on their way. Especially Crosby.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:34 PM
  #58
MadLuke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResilientBeast View Post
But we're not comparing them to the players they are playing against. Of course now Malkin and Crosby are probably the top two players of today, but if you had dropped them back during Forsberg and Sakic's heyday I'm sure you'd see them in the same spot top tenish.
Will have to wait for this comparison.

We can look at what the duo did before 25/26 and say Crosby/Malkin had a better start in their career (not by much, but a clear one).

It will be pure speculation that they can keep up a career like Joe, very few does.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:43 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by ResilientBeast View Post
Forsberg was top ten in points 5 times, 4 of which were top 5s
Sakic was top ten in points 10 times, 6 of which were top 5s
Malkin already have 3 top 3 (2 first place), and crosby 4 top 10 (with 3 top 3).

They already at 25/26 year olds about egal in term of elite regular season than Forsberg that started to have elite offensive season around 22-23 year olds.

Crosby already have 2 high caliber playoff run and Malkin one near sakic at least of 95-96.

Saying that they will have better career is still speculation and a bet, but they have the better start and a good one to do so imo.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:44 PM
  #60
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Crosby and Malkin, because Crosby is a better player than Joe was (although Joe was terrific), and Malkin is much better than the overrated Forsberg.

Crosby and Malkin will have to retire and be away from the game for a little while before fanbases drop their "They are whiners" campaigns and realize they were not much different than anyone else in this respect.

God, there was a time people called Greztky a baby and an opportunist and hated on him too.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:46 PM
  #61
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I take Yzerman/Fedorov.

Of the given options, Sakic/Forsberg.

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02-03-2013, 11:18 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
I take Yzerman/Fedorov.

Of the given options, Sakic/Forsberg.
I take Gretzky and Messier.

How strange for you to bring those two up in a thread that has nothing to do with them.

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Old
02-03-2013, 11:31 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
I take Yzerman/Fedorov.

Of the given options, Sakic/Forsberg.
Hmmm, might that have more to do with logo on the front than the names on the back?

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02-03-2013, 11:58 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by ResilientBeast View Post
But we're not comparing them to the players they are playing against. Of course now Malkin and Crosby are probably the top two players of today, but if you had dropped them back during Forsberg and Sakic's heyday I'm sure you'd see them in the same spot top tenish.

Taking their entire games into account Forsberg Sakic pretty easily. Forsberg is incredible the offensive prowess and sheer force he exerted on the rink. When he wanted to score he was going to to score.
Crosby =/= Sakic
Forsberg> Malkin

Forsberg was top ten in points 5 times, 4 of which were top 5s
Sakic was top ten in points 10 times, 6 of which were top 5s

And they were both PPG until they retired until Crosby and Malkin retire and remain PPG every season until then, you could make a case for the Lemieux's pool boys, but until then Sakic and Forsberg.
Only 8 players in the history of the NHL have had a higher PPG average than Crosby does right now and all of them played in higher scoring era than he has. Crosby and Malkin have had significantly better starts to their careers than Sakic or Forsberg.

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Old
02-04-2013, 12:59 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadLuke View Post
Maurice richard
Guy Lafleur
Gretzky
Lemieux

are also very good choice.
I don't believe Mario Lemieux has ever scored in playoff overtime (unless you meant Claude Lemieux).

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Old
02-04-2013, 06:55 AM
  #66
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We'll look at the first six seasons of each player's career, because that is the number of full seasons that the least seasoned player in this poll (Malkin) has played to date.

Goal Finishes
Sakic: 6
Forsberg: None
Crosby: 1
Malkin: 4

Assist Finishes
Sakic: 9
Forsberg: 2, 3, 4, 9, 10
Crosby: 2, 2, 7, 8
Makin: 1, 6

Point Finishes
Sakic: 6, 10
Forsberg: 2, 4, 5
Crosby: 1, 2, 3, 6
Malkin: 1, 2

Even Strength Goal Finishes
Sakic: 4, 10
Forsberg: None
Crosby: 2, 9
Malkin: 5

NHL All-Star Teams
Sakic: None
Forsberg: 1st, 1st
Crosby: 1st, 2nd
Malkin: 1st, 1st, 1st

Awards
Sakic: None
Forsberg: None
Crosby: Hart, Art Ross, Rocket, Lindsay
Malkin: Art Ross, Art Ross, Hart, Conn Smythe, Lindsay

I don't particularly like to look at per-game statistics because it requires the assumption that players would have maintained that pace over time. That may or may not necessarily be true. Some players play through injuries, which reduces their points-per-game. Some players come back from injuries halfway through the season, and start with fresh legs. The effect works both ways. When comparing players of different eras, I prefer looking at the players finishes relative to his peers. This adjusts for different scoring levels. We're also looking at the first six seasons of each player's career here. Crosby came into the league at 18. Sakic at 19. Malkin at 20. Forsberg at 21.

Given the above statistics, I'd say that Crosby has played at the most consistently high level through his first six seasons. Malkin is the most decorated.

Through the first six seasons of their respective careers, I'd rank the players thusly: Crosby, Malkin, Forsberg, Sakic.

If the question becomes who will have the best prime, well the answer changes and its fairly difficult to predict if Malkin or Crosby can maintain the health and consistency that Sakic is legendary for (and rightfully so). Sakic finished top 10 in points every season but one between the two Lockouts. That was the second half of his career. Pretty incredible.

TL;DR
Through first six seasons: Crosby > Malkin > Forsberg > Sakic
Prime: TBD


Last edited by Crease: 02-04-2013 at 09:51 AM.
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Old
02-04-2013, 07:20 AM
  #67
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I'd go with Sid and Geno but i think Forsberg was the best out of that bunch.
His dominance in games was unbelievable and not always reflected on the scoreboard.

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Old
02-04-2013, 07:22 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Crosby and Malkin, because Crosby is a better player than Joe was (although Joe was terrific), and Malkin is much better than the overrated Forsberg.
Are you kidding me? (and that's coming from a huge Geno fan)

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:42 AM
  #69
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Hopefully when it's all said in done it's going to be the Pens duo

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02-04-2013, 10:48 AM
  #70
Martyros
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I don't even understand why people are comparing today's talent to previous talents... I believe the NHL had better talent before the 05' lockout than they do now (or ever will)...so saying Crosby/Malkin won an award in such year(s) and Forsberg/Sakic did not, does not really separate the duos any further...

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Old
02-04-2013, 10:57 AM
  #71
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If you had asked this question a year ago Crosby wouldn't even be in the discussion. Until he proves he's back to pre-concussion form for any length of time he's not the best anymore.
really? Cause I would take him over Stamkos, Giroux, and Tavares. The only player that is arguably better is Malkin.

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02-04-2013, 10:58 AM
  #72
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Comparing awards/point-/goal finishes isn't really going to do much since it is not against the same competition and I think most of us believe that the competition was a lot tougher during Sakic/Forsbergs primes than it is now.

Also @ "Malkin is much better than Forsberg", guess you just started to watch NHL.

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02-04-2013, 11:38 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Ferros View Post
Comparing awards/point-/goal finishes isn't really going to do much since it is not against the same competition and I think most of us believe that the competition was a lot tougher during Sakic/Forsbergs primes than it is now
It's certainly as useful as looking at raw point totals (which doesn't account for scoring inflation), adjusted points (which doesn't account for differences in style across eras), and point-per-game numbers (which doesn't account for scoring inflation, difference in styles, or the effects of playing through injury).

With regards to your assumption that the competition in Sakic/Forsberg's prime is stronger than it is now, what is this based on? The fact that we now know that a lot of players from the 90s are now in the HHOF? Even if you remove the statistical outliers like Lemieux and Gretzky from the mix, Forsberg and Sakic still don't have as good finishes as Crosby or Malkin through the first six years of their careers. And if you look at the results of the ATD, there's a fairly even distribution of players across all eras that make the list. I see no reason to believe that in 20 years we won't look back with warm feelings on the greatness of players of the current generation.

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Old
02-04-2013, 11:42 AM
  #74
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Crosby and Malkin. Crosby and Forsberg both have health issues, but Crosby is better than Forsberg was when he's healthy.

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02-04-2013, 11:49 AM
  #75
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It's close but its hard to judge considering crosby/malkin are just 25/26 and still in their prime. For all we know they could win another 2 cups and both finish with 4 art rosses each. Or they could fizzle out a la ovechkin. Right now i'd say Sakic/Forsberg but with Crosby/Malkin poised to overtake them. If comparing them at the same age it's Crosby/Malkin fairly easily.

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