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02-04-2013, 12:21 PM
  #126
reidy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoDad View Post
You have written that you, quote, tempered your expectations of him a little. Clearly the only reason for it is the slow start of the season... or was it his 29g 67p season as a 19 year old that tempered your expectations? Or his goal per game pace in Switzerland that tempered your expectations?

While Marleau is a good player and I would be very okay with Seguin playing like a 30 year old Marleau for the next 15 years, Tyler is clearly heads and shoulders ahead of Marleaus development at the same age. Right now there is very little indication about what type of a player he will be even with 25, his still developing his game. Hell, you mentioned Yzerman.. the guy was a pure offense machine right into his late twenties before Bowman reinvented his role.
So essentially your argument is that it's impossible for me to postulate on Seguin's future career arc due to his age. Got it. I'll make sure to bookmark this thread and return in 5 years so we can then adequately discuss this topic.

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02-04-2013, 12:28 PM
  #127
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Getting to the really granular level with this, but regarding his killer one timer -

Last year I noticed 3 distinct phases to this deadly shot of his. For about the 1st third of the season he just couldn't miss. I mean he was banging them in at all angles and giving goalies nightmares.

For the 2nd third of the season either goalies were starting to catch up with it or he just wasn't anticipating it well enough and telegraphing it but for whatever reason he started hitting the goalies chest more, as well as a good number of posts.

For the last 3rd of the season he just couldn't even hit the side of a barn. They would be going well wide or way over, and many times i remember yelling at the TV "did you forget how take a friggin one timer" after he would just plain fan on the shot and not even get it off.

So far this year I see him right in the middle of that phase 2 and I hope he hasn't started picking up bad habits which might be hard to shake off.

Short story long, I see this as mostly mechanics with him and I hope he has been putting extra time in at practice with this immense weapon.

Plus his confidence is shaken and he needs to get his mojo back and i'm not sure how you just turn that switch on. What am i talking about? The kid is money on the penalty shot, and yet he has had countless breakaways with nothing to show for it. did he just forget how to score in that situation? Nope. But he is pressing and over thinking way too much.

He'll be fine but i really wish that off season hockey camp he went to (the same one as Stamkos) had produced better results.

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02-04-2013, 12:30 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reidy View Post
So essentially your argument is that it's impossible for me to postulate on Seguin's future career arc due to his age. Got it. I'll make sure to bookmark this thread and return in 5 years so we can then adequately discuss this topic.
No, my argument is that you changed your expectations of young player based on freaking 8 games of a lockout season. You can argue about his ceiling all you want but to CHANGE your opinion on his career path based on the first 2 weeks of a new season is ridiculous to say at least.

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02-04-2013, 12:34 PM
  #129
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I have zero factual evidence to support my theory but there is a part of me that questions Seguins drive to become one of the elite players in the league. Maybe its his age, maybe it was the celebration photos or his supposed clubbing frequently (like a lot of kids his age) but there doesn't seem to me to be the 100% dedication to hockey yet - similar to Patrick Kane. Players like Sidney Crosby seem to have more focus on hockey than the normal players and thus more drive to excel than others. As I stated its a total unfactual opinion I have and may be 100A% incorrect but thats the feel I get from seeing Seguin. Seguin certainly has the tools but at this level you need the tools and drive and focus to be elite...and I dont think all areas are there yet.

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02-04-2013, 12:36 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoDad View Post
No, my argument is that you changed your expectations of young player based on freaking 8 games of a lockout season. You can argue about his ceiling all you want but to CHANGE your opinion on his career path based on the first 2 weeks of a new season is ridiculous to say at least.
As I said in my initial response to you, I've lowered my expectations of Seguin based on how they were set before I had ever seen him play, and developed over 175 separate instances of watching him play hockey. I would have said the same thing last year when he was playing well too. I don't ever expect Seguin to be a Yzerman/Sakic caliber of player, which based on almost every scouting report I read prior to the draft is where I had initially set my expectations for him. Perhaps that's on me for not realizing how stupid player comps are in general.

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02-04-2013, 12:40 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by reidy View Post
As I said in my initial response to you, I've lowered my expectations of Seguin based on how they were set before I had ever seen him play, and developed over 175 separate instances of watching him play hockey. I would have said the same thing last year when he was playing well too. I don't ever expect Seguin to be a Yzerman/Sakic caliber of player. It's just not going to happen.
Nobody expects that but there is a huge gap between Sakic/Yzerman alltime top20 player level and Patty Marleau who was basically a 50 point player before he turned 27 and SJ added Jumbo Joe.

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02-04-2013, 12:40 PM
  #132
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Some players, in all sports are just risky "second contract" guys... Some get paid, and don't work as hard.

Seguin is not one of these types however. He will be OK. He's getting chances and is visible. I worry when I don't notice players out there.

That being said, I'm not impressed with his 2013 season one bit.. I know it will change though, so not worried at all.

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02-04-2013, 12:43 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by PsychoDad View Post
Nobody expects that but there is a huge gap between Sakic/Yzerman alltime top20 player level and Patty Marleau who was basically a 50 point player before he turned 27 and SJ added Jumbo Joe.
I think you're misinterpreting my comments then. I'm not predicting a Patrick Marleau career arc for Seguin in that he's going to score 50 points a season until he's 27 and then break out when playing with a top 5 center. My point was I see him as a Marleau-type, a guy who hovers around a PPG (which Marleau does when he's at his best) and will hit 40 goals a few times, while probably not equaling the sum of all his tremendous parts (as Marleau by all accounts has all the tools to be a HOF'er).

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02-04-2013, 01:51 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by beaverjc View Post
I have zero factual evidence to support my theory but there is a part of me that questions Seguins drive to become one of the elite players in the league. Maybe its his age, maybe it was the celebration photos or his supposed clubbing frequently (like a lot of kids his age) but there doesn't seem to me to be the 100% dedication to hockey yet - similar to Patrick Kane. Players like Sidney Crosby seem to have more focus on hockey than the normal players and thus more drive to excel than others. As I stated its a total unfactual opinion I have and may be 100A% incorrect but thats the feel I get from seeing Seguin. Seguin certainly has the tools but at this level you need the tools and drive and focus to be elite...and I dont think all areas are there yet.
The guy works his *** off, so I have no clue where this comes from, unless it's an overdose of Dupont.

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02-04-2013, 01:54 PM
  #135
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The guy works his *** off, so I have no clue where this comes from, unless it's an overdose of Dupont.
Its just the vibe I get. The kid seems to have a very active off ice night life which many kids his age have. Probably clouds my judgement. I feel the same about Marshmont as well. They seem to live like rock stars. I assume to get as far as they have got they must work extremely hard. Its just the impression that I get that Seguin parties hard. Crosby gives me the impression he is hockey 24/7...not so much with Seguin. Bergeron seems like a true pro as well who is 100% dedicated and maybe that comes with growing up.

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02-04-2013, 02:36 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by beaverjc View Post
Its just the vibe I get. The kid seems to have a very active off ice night life which many kids his age have. Probably clouds my judgement. I feel the same about Marshmont as well. They seem to live like rock stars. I assume to get as far as they have got they must work extremely hard. Its just the impression that I get that Seguin parties hard. Crosby gives me the impression he is hockey 24/7...not so much with Seguin. Bergeron seems like a true pro as well who is 100% dedicated and maybe that comes with growing up.
Tell me, where do you get the impression that Seguin and Marchand are partying it up? Do you see them around town? In the Inside Track? Naked pics on the Internet? Because I follow Seguin on Twitter and he seems to spend much of his off time going to the movies or having dinner with his friends.

If you have tales to the contrary, please share.

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02-04-2013, 02:42 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beaverjc View Post
I have zero factual evidence to support my theory but there is a part of me that questions Seguins drive to become one of the elite players in the league. Maybe its his age, maybe it was the celebration photos or his supposed clubbing frequently (like a lot of kids his age) but there doesn't seem to me to be the 100% dedication to hockey yet - similar to Patrick Kane. Players like Sidney Crosby seem to have more focus on hockey than the normal players and thus more drive to excel than others. As I stated its a total unfactual opinion I have and may be 100A% incorrect but thats the feel I get from seeing Seguin. Seguin certainly has the tools but at this level you need the tools and drive and focus to be elite...and I dont think all areas are there yet.
I don't necessarily agree, or think this is probable, but I wouldn't totally discount it. Winning a Cup as a rookie and getting a massive payday after year 2 is enough to make plenty of guys tone down their effort.*

However, if there was any group of leaders to prevent this from happening, we've got it right here. I'm really not worried about Seguin. I've seen good things so far this year. I've seen bad things, too. But mostly just frustration/snake bitten/trying to do way too much.

* I am 100% NOT saying Seguin is now/ever will be that type of guy who is content with what he's got already, so please don't bash me for it.

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02-04-2013, 02:46 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
The guy works his *** off, so I have no clue where this comes from, unless it's an overdose of Dupont.
Where have you seen this mentioned? I know he is very mature on and ice the off from things I read, and I know he works out alot , gym wise, but have you seen somewhere that mentions his busts his ass hockey wise? Like extra practice, video room, etc? I would think he does, but never saw him praised for it.

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02-04-2013, 02:49 PM
  #139
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A big game from Seguin Wednesday be sweet.Long over due.No better time then vs Price and scabs oops i meant habs ..And by the way everyone,Seguin been getting tons chances and just snakebitten.It will come and best part is they been getting pts anyways.

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02-04-2013, 02:57 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Tell me, where do you get the impression that Seguin and Marchand are partying it up? Do you see them around town? In the Inside Track? Naked pics on the Internet? Because I follow Seguin on Twitter and he seems to spend much of his off time going to the movies or having dinner with his friends.

If you have tales to the contrary, please share.
Based on a combination of things you mentioned and a few things not mentioned, missing meeting from oversleeping scandal and few stories which I have overheard (although not confirmed). I dont pretend to have inside information. All I am saying is he looks like he likes having a great time like a lot of 21 year old single males....add in the fact he is a millionaire + single + hockey player + living in Boston and I can see how hockey may take a lesser role with an active social life and its probably unfair to ask him to be dedicated 100% to hockey at this stage.

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02-04-2013, 02:59 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Tell me, where do you get the impression that Seguin and Marchand are partying it up? Do you see them around town? In the Inside Track? Naked pics on the Internet? Because I follow Seguin on Twitter and he seems to spend much of his off time going to the movies or having dinner with his friends.

If you have tales to the contrary, please share.
beavs been taling them, like that guy in The Watchmen.

"beavs journal febuary 1st 2013.... No goals for Seguin, hits butt end of Riemer's goalie stick, cruel joke. But not as funny as his work on the boards and corners. Subject took shower after game. Surveillance interrupted for 10 minutes. Ok, now I'm back, sweaty, but relaxed. Toweled off, sloppy knot on tie poor effort, typical. Subject ordered room service, heard laughing. Inspected subject's phone, 3 msges from 3 different girls. Inspect my own phone for comparison, no girls, just Bergeron calling to remind me he scored 2 goals in game 7 making me feel like imbecile for implying he wasn't worth his contract, beavshack out."

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02-04-2013, 03:03 PM
  #142
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beavs been taling them, like that guy in The Watchmen.

"beavs journal febuary 1st 2013.... No goals for Seguin, hits butt end of Riemer's goalie stick, cruel joke. But not as funny as his work on the boards and corners. Subject took shower after game. Surveillance interrupted for 10 minutes. Ok, now I'm back, sweaty, but relaxed. Toweled off, sloppy knot on tie poor effort, typical. Subject ordered room service, heard laughing. Inspected subject's phone, 3 msges from 3 different girls. Inspect my own phone for comparison, no girls, just Bergeron calling to remind me he scored 2 goals in game 7 making me feel like imbecile for implying he wasn't worth his contract, beavshack out."
Awesome. I also heard that Tyler lives in squalor so he can play floor hockey instead of living like a civilized human being. On a side note, I did get an email photo from my cousin who is 24 years old single attractive lady with Tyler and a few of the Bruins in Boston. I was going to ask if she was carrying Baby Seguin but I had second thoughts on that since I am not sure how that would go over. I would laugh though....

Players I think that give the impression of working hard (again just my opinion and not based on any facts):
Chara
Bergeron
Crosby


Players that I think could get more out of their skills:
Kessel

Basically I would like Seguin to act 28 years old not 21. Then again that could go for every 21 year old.


Last edited by beaverjc: 02-04-2013 at 03:08 PM.
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02-04-2013, 03:09 PM
  #143
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Where have you seen this mentioned? I know he is very mature on and ice the off from things I read, and I know he works out alot , gym wise, but have you seen somewhere that mentions his busts his ass hockey wise? Like extra practice, video room, etc? I would think he does, but never saw him praised for it.
Bergeron and Ference have mentioned it, to name two. I'm sure he isn't working out 24/7, but I'm also sure he isn't painting the town red every night.

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02-04-2013, 03:12 PM
  #144
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Bergeron and Ference have mentioned it, to name two. I'm sure he isn't working out 24/7, but I'm also sure he isn't painting the town red every night.
He strikes me as a guy who works very hard on the ice as well... Not sure why anyone would question his work ethic, but I have heard and read about it what 6 times already the past two years...?? Milbury especially.

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02-04-2013, 03:16 PM
  #145
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He strikes me as a guy who works very hard on the ice as well... Not sure why anyone would question his work ethic, but I have heard and read about it what 6 times already the past two years...?? Milbury especially.
I think alot of it is also image...young, partying and dancing with Cup, tattoos, etc. Kind of reminds me of Patrick Kane who made some mistakes when younger and seemed to enjoy the status and nightlife and he seems to be maturing at the age of 24. Its called growing older and wiser I guess. I think Seguin works hard and plays hard. I have never seen him slack on the ice but I do wonder if he puts everything he has into it yet. He has the skill to score 30 every year without blinking an eye.....50 if he busted.

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02-04-2013, 03:22 PM
  #146
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Awesome. I also heard that Tyler lives in squalor so he can play floor hockey instead of living like a civilized human being. On a side note, I did get an email photo from my cousin who is 24 years old single attractive lady with Tyler and a few of the Bruins in Boston. I was going to ask if she was carrying Baby Seguin but I had second thoughts on that since I am not sure how that would go over. I would laugh though....

Players I think that give the impression of working hard (again just my opinion and not based on any facts):
Chara
Bergeron
Crosby


Players that I think could get more out of their skills:
Kessel
Beavshack's journal february 2 2013 - Subject Kessel: Hit post on screenshot from top of circle, moral victory. Only changed leaf panties twice during game going against Chara, victory. No "thank you kessel chant" while playing against boston, victory. Skipped shower, used game-breaking speed to avoid media, get to trusty silver honda awarded at allstar game, more winning. Reservations for one at China Blossom, accidentally bit waiter's finger when he attempted to remove second pu-pu platter from table too soon, Kessel even eats the shrimp... beavshack, out.

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02-04-2013, 03:24 PM
  #147
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Beavshack's journal february 2 2013 - Subject Kessel: Hit post on screenshot from top of circle, moral victory. Only changed leaf panties twice during game going against Chara, victory. No "thank you kessel chant" while playing against boston, victory. Skipped shower, used game-breaking speed to avoid media, get to trusty silver honda awarded at allstar game, more winning. Reservations for one at China Blossom, accidentally bit waiter's finger when he attempted to remove second pu-pu platter from table too soon, Kessel even eats the shrimp... beavshack, out.
I am rolling....would playing NHL13 on XBox count as practice/filmwork? Discuss.....

Obviously Marshmont is working on his shot because his shot % is 50% while Seguins is 3.7%. Do shots at the bar count?

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02-04-2013, 03:34 PM
  #148
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Hackerty should ask Segs if the pressure of this rainforest contest is weighing him down and becoming too much of a distraction.

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02-04-2013, 03:34 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Some players, in all sports are just risky "second contract" guys... Some get paid, and don't work as hard.

Seguin is not one of these types however. He will be OK. He's getting chances and is visible. I worry when I don't notice players out there.

That being said, I'm not impressed with his 2013 season one bit.. I know it will change though, so not worried at all.
If there was a "ding ding ding, we have a winner" button I'd hit it now.

He's going to need to fight his way through this, but like WBC says he's definitely visible and active. It'll come!

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02-04-2013, 03:38 PM
  #150
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Hackerty should ask Segs if the pressure of this rainforest contest is weighing him down and becoming too much of a distraction.
Awesome.

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