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02-05-2013, 09:47 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Welcome to Boston where if you don't play a style similar to Terry O'Reilly, Cam Neely, Stan Jonathan, Jay Miller, and Milan Lucic rolled into one, you will never be fully embraced by a large portion of the fan base.

It's called skill. The kid has plenty of it, so lets not get hung up on whether he plays with grit. That's not his game, nor will it ever be. Maybe it would be easier for you to adjust your unrealistic expectations than wanting Seguin to be something he's not. Just a thought.
Sounds alot like Phil Kessel.

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02-05-2013, 09:49 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by beaverjc View Post
Sounds alot like Phil Kessel.
maybe he needs to be benched for a scabs game (or 3) like Kessel and that'll get the message across.

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02-05-2013, 09:49 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Welcome to Boston where if you don't play a style similar to Terry O'Reilly, Cam Neely, Stan Jonathan, Jay Miller, and Milan Lucic rolled into one, you will never be fully embraced by a large portion of the fan base.

It's called skill. The kid has plenty of it, so lets not get hung up on whether he plays with grit. That's not his game, nor will it ever be. Maybe it would be easier for you to adjust your unrealistic expectations than wanting Seguin to be something he's not. Just a thought.
Nice post, I like. Ok, if you're not hitting people or digging in the corner, what is your skill set? I'm gonna say scoring goals. So where are they? One empty netter doesn't count.

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02-05-2013, 09:52 AM
  #179
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Wondering if Julien/Chia have to get him in at centre (his natural position) somehow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't all of his success in juniors while he was playing C. Something tells me that Seguin at wing is limiting his creativity.

Now I know this opens up another can of worms because the only way to get Seguin in at C is to move someone out - which has been discussed to death here. Many are quick to assume that Krejci is the odd man out (including myself) but I think that DK is proving his worth once again.

Seguin at center, although D would be a challenge, could be magical.

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02-05-2013, 09:55 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by beaverjc View Post
Its about expectations. If I told you get the following:

Player has had his FOURTH consecutive 30 goal season and is only 25 years old.

Finished 6th in the NHL in scoring.

NHL All Star in 2011 and 2012.

Every Bruin fan would take that.....+/- can be deceptive since some teams stink. Patrice Bergeron was a -28 in the 2006/7 season.
+/- needs to be taken into context. you won't get the full story with it; you'll need to combine it with the eye test to really understand how that player plays.

Bergeron had a poor year in 06-07, even he admitted to such. Same with Chara. That doesn't make them bad defensively, it just means they each had a bad year on a bad team.

Kessel is a good scorer on a bad team but he compounds the problem by being defensively inept. He's not the franchise linchpin they were hoping for. And to help him out, they were somehow able to find a forward that was even worse than Kessel defensively and PUT THEM TOGETHER ON THE SAME LINE. Not Kessel's fault, just highlighting the stupidity of that franchise.

They aren't maximizing Kessel's talents. It was a huge investment to get him and right now, their investment isn't paying off. Part of that is on the player, and another part on the franchise.

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02-05-2013, 09:56 AM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beaverjc View Post
Sounds alot like Phil Kessel.
I'd say that's a very accurate comparison. Especially if the rumblings about him relying on his natural ability rather than working hard to get better is true. He's still young, and he's still got a lot to learn, but not every player on your team has to be a strong 2 way player. You can use a pure skill guy for just that and be fine. I think CJ needs to adjust his mindset on defense first, second, third, and then maybe some offense fourth. Let the kid play, let him make mistakes. It's the only way he's going to reach his potential.

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02-05-2013, 10:00 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by bosbruin View Post
Nice post, I like. Ok, if you're not hitting people or digging in the corner, what is your skill set? I'm gonna say scoring goals. So where are they? One empty netter doesn't count.
His skill set is offensive, not just scoring goals. If he's setting up his teammates and creating chances, I'm not too worried about the goals and assists. Those will come. He certainly has to work hard and put in the effort, but that doesn't mean he has to become this physical beast who wins all the battles along the boards. Just like when Lucic doesn't play physical and thinks he's suddenly a finesse player, his game suffers. You start asking Seguin to be something he's not and his game will be even worse.

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02-05-2013, 10:03 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
I'd say that's a very accurate comparison. Especially if the rumblings about him relying on his natural ability rather than working hard to get better is true. He's still young, and he's still got a lot to learn, but not every player on your team has to be a strong 2 way player. You can use a pure skill guy for just that and be fine. I think CJ needs to adjust his mindset on defense first, second, third, and then maybe some offense fourth. Let the kid play, let him make mistakes. It's the only way he's going to reach his potential.
I absolutely agree. To your point the Bruins success is do in part because they play a very defensive minded system. Players know their role and do it well. Its about structure and defensive responsibility....the absolute opposite characteristics that most gifted goal scorers rely on. Goal scorers are creative, risk takers who are often times out of position in order to score. Its a clash of styles for sure and to get the most of out Seguins skill set there needs some flexibillty to give Seguin a longer leash.

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02-05-2013, 10:07 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
+/- needs to be taken into context. you won't get the full story with it; you'll need to combine it with the eye test to really understand how that player plays.

Bergeron had a poor year in 06-07, even he admitted to such. Same with Chara. That doesn't make them bad defensively, it just means they each had a bad year on a bad team.

Kessel is a good scorer on a bad team but he compounds the problem by being defensively inept. He's not the franchise linchpin they were hoping for. And to help him out, they were somehow able to find a forward that was even worse than Kessel defensively and PUT THEM TOGETHER ON THE SAME LINE. Not Kessel's fault, just highlighting the stupidity of that franchise.

They aren't maximizing Kessel's talents. It was a huge investment to get him and right now, their investment isn't paying off. Part of that is on the player, and another part on the franchise.
I hear ya but not many pure goal scorers are solid defenders. Either a player is a point producer or a defense player - very rarely are they both. Kessel is inept defensively but thats not his role. Could/should he improve his defensive responsibilities absolutely. But his job #1 is to put the puck in the net so I assume he focuses on that part of his game. Bruins absolutely made out in that deal but Kessel is still a talented all star player in the NHL. A majority of the Bruins fan base think he is awful. He isn't. Kessels stat line of 37g, 45 assists and 82 points would have led the Bruins last year by a wide margin in goals, assists and points. Facts.

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02-05-2013, 10:07 AM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beaverjc View Post
I absolutely agree. To your point the Bruins success is do in part because they play a very defensive minded system. Players know their role and do it well. Its about structure and defensive responsibility....the absolute opposite characteristics that most gifted goal scorers rely on. Goal scorers are creative, risk takers who are often times out of position in order to score. Its a clash of styles for sure and to get the most of out Seguins skill set there needs some flexibillty to give Seguin a longer leash.
He's just not cashing in on his chances. He's had plenty of them, those go in and this thread is about Hart Trophies instead of system problems and partying.

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02-05-2013, 10:10 AM
  #186
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how about this for something completely different - put him on the PK for a couple of games. Have him go balls to the wall driving their pointmen crazy with his speed and quickness and who knows, he may end up with some scoring chances with absolutely no pressure for an actual score. what could be better for his confidence than a shorty to get him out of this scoring funk? If they give up a goal or 2, end of experiment.

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02-05-2013, 10:10 AM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bosbruin View Post
Can someone please talk me off this bridge? IMO, I think Tyler Seguin will turn out to be a huge bust for this franchise. He is soft as puppy pooh and compared to others his age he's not very good. And don't give me this "he played in Europe on a bigger ice surface and was amazing" crap. He's been playing hockey his whole life so it shouldn't take him this long to be back on track on NHL ice. I wish they'd never signed him to that nice fat contract. Just for kicks I looked at his draft and there are about 5 or 6 players I wish the B's had instead of Tyler. Oh, I'm so sick of hearing this..."Seguin shots it high off the glass".
Out of curiosity:

What are the recently-turned-21-year-olds that you're comparing him to?

And what are the 5 or 6 guys that you'd have preferred?

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02-05-2013, 10:11 AM
  #188
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I can't even.

On the plus side, I'd bet Seguin's teammates would get a great laugh out of this thread.

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02-05-2013, 10:14 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I can't even.

On the plus side, I'd bet Seguin's teammates would get a great laugh out of this thread.
I bet Seguin gets a great laugh out of this thread and would admit he deserves all the crap he has got for the slow start. Until Segs starts scoring he is the Gronk of the Bruins.

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02-05-2013, 10:15 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by beaverjc View Post
I bet Seguin gets a great laugh out of this thread and would admit he deserves all the crap he has got for the slow start. Until Segs starts scoring he is the Gronk of the Bruins.
Elephant in the room perhaps?

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02-05-2013, 10:17 AM
  #191
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I haven't gone through all of this but 3 quick points/questions:

1. For those saying that Seguin needs to be unleashed to play a bit more offensive and it's not as much about being a strong 2 way player- have you noticed how teams are treating him on the power play? They're rushing him. They're pressuring him with 1 guy because he's reaching, being soft on the puck and not keeping his feet moving. I don't mind if he's not the 2 way player- that line has the guys to do that. But what he has to be is strong on the puck and be willing to work harder to win battles. Hockey is about winning battles and having puck control- it's hard to score when you can't have the puck on your stick regardless of your offensive talent.

2. The idea of Seguin going to center at this point is god awful. The only way this works is if you believe it makes him force himself into the mindset that he needs to work harder on the boards. He has the ability to break the play out and get up ice quickly which would be beneficial long term at the position- but he needs 1st to be able to win the battles otherwise again, we're sitting in our own end and there's no offensive chances.

3. With those points said- items that are very negative, Seguin's game has started to swing back. He's starting to show a bit more fight and is getting in faster on the forecheck. I think what he needs to do at this point is to remember to keep moving his feet both offensively and defensively. He's stopping quick on defensive battles and chasing the puck- pulling up early- he needs to avoid this as when he has, he's been creating opportunities. Offensively, he needs to stop reaching and trying to protect solely with his body- he's not Lucic. He needs to have his feet moving and be willing to challenge guys to stay with him. When he does this he either creates chances or gets pulled down resulting in power plays (though who knows the benefits of those). The more he does this the more confidence he'll build and the more that teams will need to treat him as a threat- opening up his line mates for more chances to put the puck home.

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02-05-2013, 10:23 AM
  #192
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Took a glance at his stats, http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=116079, and noticed what a remarkable development he's had over the last four years. That gives us two options with regards to the current season.

1. That he's hit his plateau just as he turn 21 years old.

or

2. That he has had a bad 8 game stretch that just happened at the start of a season.

I know which option I would pick.

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02-05-2013, 10:23 AM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beaverjc View Post
Sounds alot like Phil Kessel.
While I'm potentially biased, I think that Seguin compares favorable to Kessel in playmaking, defensive awareness and even willingness-to-get-his-nose-dirty ... in spite him being 4 years younger. And I honestly think that Seguin will likely improve on all facets of his game in the next 4 seasons; he's certainly stronger at those things than Kessel was at 19/20/21.

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02-05-2013, 10:24 AM
  #194
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I bet Seguin gets a great laugh out of this thread and would admit he deserves all the crap he has got for the slow start. Until Segs starts scoring he is the Gronk of the Bruins.
Oh, are you one of the WEEI callers this morning insisting that Gronk needs to be treaded because OMG HE'S DANCING IN LAS VEGAS WITH A BROKEN ARM!!!?

Seguin is a naturally talented, hard-working 21-year-old in a scoring slump. That is no cause for bridge-jumping or claiming he's not a good player or not dedicated enough. It's pretty silly actually, but that's Boston fans for you.

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02-05-2013, 10:24 AM
  #195
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Seguin is at his best when he's using his speed and hockey sense to hunt and steal pucks. See Marchand's goal against the Jets on MLK day

He needs to keep his feet moving and make the quick play along the boards, something that has gone backwards from last season for him and I largely attribute that to playing where he was the past few months.

All he has to do is be relentless on the puck instead of waiting back for his line mates to do it and the points will follow

He was, in my opinion, our strongest forward in the Washington series and there isn't some magical entity stopping him from playing that way again.

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02-05-2013, 10:26 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by bosbruin View Post
All of you who replied to my post did not give me any valid reasons why I'm wrong in my opinion, again just an opinion. I hope he goes out tomorrow night and scores 2 goals. I've seen player after player who has "HIGH expectations" for this team turn into nothing. Why Should I think Tyler is different? Why is he invisible right now?
so if he scores two tomorrow that's more reason to believe in him than him being the best scorer on the bruins last year? Interesting.

There's no proof either way, but so far Tyler has clearly shown more signs of becoming a great scorer than busting.

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02-05-2013, 10:30 AM
  #197
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Oh, are you one of the WEEI callers this morning insisting that Gronk needs to be treaded because OMG HE'S DANCING IN LAS VEGAS WITH A BROKEN ARM!!!?

Seguin is a naturally talented, hard-working 21-year-old in a scoring slump. That is no cause for bridge-jumping or claiming he's not a good player or not dedicated enough. It's pretty silly actually, but that's Boston fans for you.
Spot on. Seguin is a stud and just came out of the gate slow. He is too talented for it to last long. That being said I am sure there are some red flags about his dedication and concern over his nightlife just as the Patriots have for Gronk. Both are young, fun loving, single, rich, highly visible players who are huge components of their team and if they are seen in sketchy situations and the player struggles of course people would tie that to some of the reasoning correctly or incorrectly. If Gronk struggles next season for the first 4 games everyone will say he parties too much and didnt rehab enough.

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02-05-2013, 10:33 AM
  #198
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so if he scores two tomorrow that's more reason to believe in him than him being the best scorer on the bruins last year? Interesting.

There's no proof either way, but so far Tyler has clearly shown more signs of becoming a great scorer than busting.
Evidently a single, 2-goal game would be enough to talk that poster off the ledge, and would remove any doubts they had about Seguin being a "huge bust".

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02-05-2013, 10:55 AM
  #199
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I love the responses you guys have posted. It's making my day. That being said, over the last 40 plus years, the B's have had a slew of guys with "offensive potential" who didn't amount to much. I'm just waiting to see when "TS" gets his act in gear, that's all I'm saying. 1 empty net goal is pretty bad for a player of his "potential".

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02-05-2013, 10:57 AM
  #200
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O boy, looks like Marchand and Seguin are already getting wild heading to Montreal

http://twitter.com/tylerseguin92/sta...908353/photo/1


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