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DW looking for another winger

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Old
02-13-2013, 08:03 AM
  #476
bullslugg
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so, who has wingers & who would need a big slow tough D-man

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02-13-2013, 08:21 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Joe, Joe, and Couture are all pass first centers. Clowe and Havlat are also pass first guys.
Pavelski and Couture are not what I describe as play-making centers. One, Pavs is a winger at this point. Two, both of them are just as much goal scorers as they are passers. The difference is that Thornton, Clowe, and Havlat pretty much have always looked to set someone else up rather than take the shot. All will have streaks where they shoot the puck but always fall back into that habit. Pavs and Couture aren't that way.

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02-13-2013, 12:28 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
Anyone can watch a single game and count shot attempts but it is not a recorded statistic and is generally unavailable for aggregate comparison purposes. Even if it were, it would be called shot attempts, or attempts, as shots already means SOG.
Try RTSS stats at NHL.com. It is not done on a per game basis but if you comb through the event summary sheets you can get the numbers for individual games. FYI, accuracy and being able to get it through is a mark of the high end PPQBs. Boyle is up there. Rob Blake was a god in that regard. Ehrhoff was very good despite all the noise on this forum.

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02-13-2013, 12:31 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Try RTSS stats at NHL.com. It is not done a per game basis but if you comb through the event summary sheets you can get the numbers for individual games. FYI, accuracy and being able to get it through is a mark of the high end PPQBs. Boyle is up there. Rob Blake was a god in that regard. Ehrhoff was very good despite all the noise on this forum.
Blake really was a god, every shot either lead to a great rebound or a tough save for the goaltender.
Just curious, how are Ian White's numbers for getting shots through? I remember during the 10-11 season his shot reminded me a lot of Blake where every shot looked threatening.

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02-13-2013, 12:34 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Blake really was a god, every shot either lead to a great rebound or a tough save for the goaltender.
Just curious, how are Ian White's numbers for getting shots through? I remember during the 10-11 season his shot reminded me a lot of Blake where every shot looked threatening.
I didn't get all the dmen because the stat was so hard to derive. I didn't get White. By eyeball, my take was that the seas parted for Blake. The dmen got out of the way quicker than for any other player. I did note that almost every shot Blake took was groin high as it approached the net. IMO, Blake had a rep and no one wanted to be blocking his shots (think Grebeshkov).

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:34 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by bullslugg View Post
so, who has wingers & who would need a big slow tough D-man
Brian Burke

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02-13-2013, 01:05 PM
  #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Try RTSS stats at NHL.com. It is not done on a per game basis but if you comb through the event summary sheets you can get the numbers for individual games. FYI, accuracy and being able to get it through is a mark of the high end PPQBs. Boyle is up there. Rob Blake was a god in that regard. Ehrhoff was very good despite all the noise on this forum.
I always thought Vlasic used to be really bad at getting his shot through. That may have changed recently, or I was wrong Or he still is. Anyways, if I knew how to find that stat, I would look into it.

Does the "missed shot" stat on NHL.com include shots that were blocked, or just ones that went wide?

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02-13-2013, 01:21 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
About what? Comparing the aggregate rankings of players on a team based on publicly available official stats, on a web forum?

To move along, there is a record of the "missed shot" realtime stat, of which Boyle is 3rd on the team. So yeah, he shoots a lot, and if you do, you're going to have a lot of misses as well as hits. This of course this doesn't count how many attempts you have blocked, but suffice to say shooting the puck when he can is not one of Dan Boyle's problems. Boyle shoots a LOT. Demers you probably have a point with.

Interestingly, clowe has the most missed shots on the team, tied with patty despite 16 less shots. So it's not a misread that clowe has been struggling to get it on net.



I know we would rather not remember that game, but Pavs just scored on it last night :/ Or am I thinking of the right play?
EDIT: Oh okay I think you mean the low-high play from Thornton usually?
I love Boyle but he gets his shot blocked more than anyone I have ever seen. He generally takes too long to decide to shoot it and shoots in someone's skates or an already sprawled defender. He misses a ton too and it's not just because he shoots a lot. His shot isn't that great really but that's not what makes him good. It's his skating and awareness. He is absolutely great at reading the play and getting open for chances.

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02-13-2013, 02:09 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by CrazedZooChimp View Post
I always thought Vlasic used to be really bad at getting his shot through. That may have changed recently, or I was wrong Or he still is. Anyways, if I knew how to find that stat, I would look into it.

Does the "missed shot" stat on NHL.com include shots that were blocked, or just ones that went wide?
Vlasic is not good but not poor. He fails on my eyeball test because he is not accurate when he pinches. Accuracy has to go up on the pinch because high/wide is particularly dangerous on a pinch.

The other test where Ehrhoff was outstanding was first assists/60. Boyle is very good in this regard and it is a mark of QB mentality. Wiz is another who is good on first assists. A lot of defensive first assists are fake shot then pass to slot.

Dwood,
Boyle does get his shot through above average, but it is not uncommon for all dmen to have shots blocked. Blake was an outlier. Having as much as 30% of shots blocked is not uncommon for dmen. On any given game that may mean as much as 75% blocked in a single game.

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02-13-2013, 02:57 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Mattb124 View Post
So you think #2 above is a good definition, but you don't agree with it? Got it.
Who said that? Re-read the sentence:

I agree, #2 looks like a good definition of a #1 d-man, but still don't see one on the sharks, which was completely showcased by Boyle and Burns' play last night/yesterday.

nice try though.

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02-13-2013, 03:37 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by DarrylshutzSydor View Post
I agree, #2 looks like a good definition of a #1 d-man, but still don't see one on the sharks, which was completely showcased by Boyle and Burns' play last night/yesterday.
So who are the 30 defenseman that are better than Burns and Boyle?

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02-13-2013, 03:47 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by DarrylshutzSydor View Post
Who said that? Re-read the sentence:

I agree, #2 looks like a good definition of a #1 d-man, but still don't see one on the sharks, which was completely showcased by Boyle and Burns' play last night/yesterday.

nice try though.
How then do you reconcile that 1) Boyle was top #7 in the NHL in terms of TOI and #8 in points and is good but not excellent defensively (i.e. #33 in CORSI ON for d-men with 60 or more games), and 2) that Burns was #12 in terms of TOI in '10-'11 (would have been top #30 again in '11-'12 if not for playing behind Boyle) and #22 in points in '11-'12 and has very good defensive metrics (i.e. #16 in CORSI ON for d-men with 60 or more games) - but neither meets the definition? Explaining how neither fits in the top 30 even though their actual performance puts both of them in the top 30 will be the nice try.


Last edited by Mattb124: 02-13-2013 at 04:35 PM.
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Old
02-13-2013, 04:06 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Try RTSS stats at NHL.com. It is not done on a per game basis but if you comb through the event summary sheets you can get the numbers for individual games. FYI, accuracy and being able to get it through is a mark of the high end PPQBs. Boyle is up there. Rob Blake was a god in that regard. Ehrhoff was very good despite all the noise on this forum.
RTSS has missed shots but no shot attempts as far as I have seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
I love Boyle but he gets his shot blocked more than anyone I have ever seen. He generally takes too long to decide to shoot it and shoots in someone's skates or an already sprawled defender. He misses a ton too and it's not just because he shoots a lot. His shot isn't that great really but that's not what makes him good. It's his skating and awareness. He is absolutely great at reading the play and getting open for chances.
I have to disagree, boyle has a great shot and he is very accurate with it.

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Old
02-13-2013, 04:10 PM
  #489
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
RTSS has missed shots but no shot attempts as far as I have seen.
They have blocked shots somewhere on NHL.com. I said it was a PITA in part because you have to do the calculations yourself. They don't compile for shots attempted even on the event summaries.

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02-13-2013, 04:40 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
They have blocked shots somewhere on NHL.com. I said it was a PITA in part because you have to do the calculations yourself. They don't compile for shots attempted even on the event summaries.
as far as i can tell that means shots the player blocked, not their attempts that were blocked.

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02-13-2013, 05:22 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
as far as i can tell that means shots the player blocked, not their attempts that were blocked.
They had a column in there somewhere for shots taken that are blocked. It might have been under the shooting summaries. I did find a single page that had shots missed and shots that were blocked, but it did not include shots on net and goals. I had to have two pages up to do the calculation.

Edit:
I just went back and looked and can't find the blocked column. They have a team blocked against/60 at behindthenet. Not a good substitute.

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02-13-2013, 05:30 PM
  #492
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Lets try to get back on topic a little. Since the season is short, DW should probably make move sooner rather than later. Who's available, who would we want, who would we want to give up etc etc. Let all pray really really hard that we don't see another panic Winnikesque deal.

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02-13-2013, 05:50 PM
  #493
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Lets try to get back on topic a little. Since the season is short, DW should probably make move sooner rather than later. Who's available, who would we want, who would we want to give up etc etc. Let all pray really really hard that we don't see another panic Winnikesque deal.


I still maintain we won that trade, it was his failure to re-sign Winnik that really hurt.


At this point I would guess Murray and a pick are being shopped for a speedy winger, but that's probably the only move that will be made of one is made at all.

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02-13-2013, 06:01 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
They had a column in there somewhere for shots taken that are blocked. It might have been under the shooting summaries. I did find a single page that had shots missed and shots that were blocked, but it did not include shots on net and goals. I had to have two pages up to do the calculation.

Edit:
I just went back and looked and can't find the blocked column. They have a team blocked against/60 at behindthenet. Not a good substitute.
Yeah, i dunno. anyway, the idea that boyle passes up too many shots is IMO and as far as any evidence I can find, unfounded.

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I still maintain we won that trade, it was his failure to re-sign Winnik that really hurt.
Yes, winnik not only not resigning but going to a division rival hurts a lot. He has an impactful mix of skills that we could really use. But it's hard to knock DW if he saw that too and believed some other team would be willing to sign him to more than we could offer. It's surprising and a little appalling that the ducks were able to. The real knock IMO is offering Burish FOUR years.

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02-13-2013, 06:40 PM
  #495
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Acquiring a player won't help (most likely).

This isn't like in other years, where there were some missing holes on defense and on the 2nd/3rd lines, where the team was playing well but just needed a little bit more to get over the hump; ie they were simply being beaten by better teams and needed to become more talented.

In this last stretch, the issue has been production from nobody, save MAYBE the 3rd line. The players are in a funk; there is no chemistry, etc. etc. The personnel is there, the execution is lacking.

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02-13-2013, 07:26 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Acquiring a player won't help (most likely).

This isn't like in other years, where there were some missing holes on defense and on the 2nd/3rd lines, where the team was playing well but just needed a little bit more to get over the hump; ie they were simply being beaten by better teams and needed to become more talented.

In this last stretch, the issue has been production from nobody, save MAYBE the 3rd line. The players are in a funk; there is no chemistry, etc. etc. The personnel is there, the execution is lacking.
I agree. No one player will help. To me, it's a continuation of the end of last season when the Sharks went on that downhill slide.

In the end, I think the Sharks have just hit a wall with this team. I hope to be proven wrong but I think their shelf life is expiring...

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02-13-2013, 07:29 PM
  #497
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Acquiring a player won't help (most likely).

This isn't like in other years, where there were some missing holes on defense and on the 2nd/3rd lines, where the team was playing well but just needed a little bit more to get over the hump; ie they were simply being beaten by better teams and needed to become more talented.

In this last stretch, the issue has been production from nobody, save MAYBE the 3rd line. The players are in a funk; there is no chemistry, etc. etc. The personnel is there, the execution is lacking.
This.

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02-13-2013, 07:41 PM
  #498
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I hope to be proven wrong but I think their shelf life is expiring...
People have been talking about this for awhile now. This is definitely a team on the decline and their window is quickly closing.

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02-13-2013, 07:54 PM
  #499
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People have been talking about this for awhile now. This is definitely a team on the decline and their window is quickly closing.
Which is why if we do make a trade it needs to be for youth.

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02-13-2013, 08:01 PM
  #500
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If we resign clowe I think we made a mistake. We should try to get something for him, IMO

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